Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby George Hammond » Thu May 14, 2009 9:17 pm

<snip ad hominem remarks>

R: I asked you about conferences where real science is discussed. You ignored that.


[Hammond]
For the record, I was an invited speaker to the XXVI INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS OF PSYCHOLOGY in Montreal in August 1996
where I announced the peer reviewed publication of my discovery of the Structural Model of Personality in a 30 minute
address which received an enthusiastic ovation.

Sitting next to me on the dais was Professor Hans Eysenck then the worlds most cited and most famous living research
psychologists who gave a 30 minute address following mine. We had a delightful 2 hour conversation during the presentations.
My speech is reported in their published bulletin and I even have a picture of me taken with Hans Eysenck by Prof. Peter F. Merenda
then chairman of the Psychology Dept. at URI.

I will repeat that your conclusion is not peer reviewed.


[Hammond]
This is nonsense which you continue to repeat:

As a simple Google search shows, BOTH of the following journals are peer reviewed academic journals:

Peer reviewed publications

Hammond G.E (1994) The Cartesian Theory, in
New Ideas In Psychology, Vol 12(2) 153-167
Pergamon Press. Online copy of peer/published
paper is posted at:
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god/cart.html

Hammond G.E.(2003) A Semiclassical Proof of God
Noetic Journal, Vol 4(3) July 2003, pp 231-244(Noetic Press)
Online copy of peer/published paper is posted at:
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god/Hammond5s1.html


The journal article you've posted mentions nothing about discovering the creator of the universe, which is the general definition of god.


[Hammond]
This is another of your false misstatements, attributable in this case to the fact that you have apparently not even
bothered to ACTUALLY READ the paper you are trying to refute.

In Section 6, paragraph 8 of the above cited, paper and ink published, and electronically posted peer reviewed academic journal paper
we find the following stunning and compelling prima facie simple scientific explanation of the BIBLICAL CREATION of Christianity:

=====block quote===from Hammond, 2003 peer published paper==============
Another example of the comprehensive explanatory power of this discovery involves "Creation". Reality is controlled by the human brain, since brain growth changes reality. The modern human brain is only about 40,000 years old which is when Homo Sapiens sapiens first appeared. This means that reality "as we know it" did not exist prior to 40,000 years ago. Certainly in the scientific sense of this theory, it is correct to say that the entire world, billion year old fossils and all, was "created" approximately 40,000 years ago. This then, is the Creation described in Genesis. While Evolution is certainly correct, so is Creationism, or the Biblical account of Creation. Adam and Eve were simply the first two Homo Sapien sapiens. Genesis is not a myth or a legend, it is a historical record of the birth of reality, or the World, as Man witnessed it 40,000 years ago. Archbishop Ussher put it at 6,000 years ago, but certainly 40,000 years is near agreement on a scale of 15 billion years which is the accepted Evolutionary age of the Universe.
============ end block quote==========================================

[Hammond]

<snip rest of off topic and/or ad homkinem material>

So your utterly false claim that the SPoG does not explain the CREATION is exposed as a lackadaisical piece of
reckless criticism on your part.

PS: Note that the moderator <magsj> has dropped in to remind us that CIVILITY is considered
an absolutely paramount requirement on this discussion forum.

Cordially, George Hammond

===================================
HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
Casey Bennetto mp3 God=G_uv folk song:
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
==================================
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby Dr Armitage » Fri May 15, 2009 2:47 pm

George Hammond wrote:The above URL is an example of the more softcore variety (or perhaps mentally challenged
variety), of pseudo critical / pseudo intellectual attack.


The above was pure satire. It wasn't pseudo anything.

This discussion seems to have gotten out of hand a little bit as far as aggression and such goes, so here are some questions that I think will make things a bit clearer for everyone and hopefully bring us to a more meaningful place as far as communication is concerned.

These are addressed to Mr. Hammond.



1.Can the universe be explained in merely physical terms?

2.Does God give us any basis for morality?

3.How is your theory different from one that proposes to have discovered what the metaphor of "God" really represents? (i.e. how is your version of God a phenomenon in itself rather than something that earlier people used to illustrate or explain away ideas that were beyond them?)

4.Why is your monotheistic God the Christian God rather than say, Brahma or Allah or Aton or something that we haven't invented a concept for yet?

5. Here is the big one that I don't feel has been sufficiently answered(probably partially due to the awkwardness of my attempt to state it):

If I understand you correctly, we experience God because of the structure of our physical makeup. We experience optical illusions for the same reason. When science tackles the question of optical illusions, take for example the grid that makes you think you see dots that aren't really there, science explains why we experience the dots, but does not say that the existence of the dots is proven. How is your theory different?
Disclaimer: I am not a real doctor. Dr. Henry Armitage is a character in "The Dunwich Horror" by H.P. Lovecraft.
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby Rouzbeh » Fri May 15, 2009 9:05 pm

I'm getting tired of this. As you may be aware, the reader reads the abstract for a small summary and the hard findings of a project and if interested by it reads on. Your abstract did not mention anything about god creating the world. I will not bother to read an entire article by some religious man who claims to have discovered the same abrahamic god that is chronicled to have broken the laws that govern the universe.
You say that you discovered the scientific proof for god 3 years after that article. 1997. You say you went to that conference in 1996. So it would seem that academia missed out on your brilliant connection between god and your 'discovery'. And if these articles hold any actual weight, wouldn't the relevant academia be all over it discussing it if not necessarily agreeing with it? Yes they would. But they aren't. Hmm. So, that conference was in 1996. We're now in 2009. You discovered god in 1997. One can't help but wonder how many conferences you could've gone to, what Time magazine would've said, how many news articles could've been written, how many interviews on Fox as a result of such a tremendous discovery in a country that blindly embraces such idiotic ideas as intelligent design. The implication of course is obvious.
I'm reading the article you've put. It seems that you're saying that the universe is not actually 40,000 years old but man's experience of it as defined by his brain development is that age. Ok. So what's god's role in the world? He's just an experience it seems. Similar to an optical illusion. Not an actual entity. Or are you also saying that god did in fact perform physical miracles? Was water turned into wine? What about everything that is empirically wrong with that belief? What is your god? Is he just a pattern? Armitage brings up some interesting points. And stop referring to the goddamn moderators. Conferences and universities are where academic discussion takes place. I don't email a professor about what he thinks of a new CFD model, I print the results and take it to him. If you don't like how discussions are performed online, I suggest you go somewhere more relevant than a free internet forum.

Oh and, did you watch Zeitgeist?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7743189197
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby George Hammond » Sat May 16, 2009 10:03 am

Note: This URL cites my name 8 times and claims to be a satire based on my work:
http://www.internetactivist.org/FSM/essay3.html

George Hammond wrote:The above URL is an example of the more softcore variety (or perhaps mentally challenged variety), of pseudo critical / pseudo intellectual attack.


Armitage: The above was pure satire. It wasn't pseudo anything.



[Hammond]
It is certainly pseudo intellectual being manifestly written by a dull and boring person. In order to write satire one must have the wit of a Voltaire not the wit of a Burger King employee. As for Voltaire, even 40 years later it makes me shudder with laughter merely recalling Candide's female companion complaining in one scene of having one of her buttocks cut off to feed some hungry men. In a fiendish world like ours, such acerbic wit serves as a genuine reassurance that not all is ignorance in high places.

Armitage: This discussion seems to have gotten out of hand a little bit as far as aggression and such goes, so here are some questions that I think will make things a bit clearer for everyone and hopefully bring us to a more meaningful place as far as communication is concerned.


[Hammond]
I applaud your efforts to raise the level of this discussion to something more fitting a moderated Philosophy forum. I am so appreciative of your efforts that I hereby take the pledge not to utter one further sentence which would not be acceptable in the highest court of Philosophical debate... say an academically moderated and publicly televised discussion symposium. Once more I deeply appreciate and second your motion and further appreciate the professionalism of your questions below, to which I will now reply:


Armitage: These are addressed to Mr. Hammond.



1.Can the universe be explained in merely physical terms?


[Hammond]
Yes. In fact the only thing in the Universe which heretofore could not be explained in physical terms was God and now it turns out that even God can be explained in physical terms. So therefore, the answer to your question is an unequivocal YES.


2.Does God give us any basis for morality?


[Hammond]
Without question the answer is yes. In fact the SPoG that I have published proves that evil is punished and good is rewarded pure and simple.

The mechanism for this is straightforward. Behind the scenes in all human activity is the constant impetus to unleash the power of our unconscious mind and bring it on line. As my theory shows this is tantamount to converting some of the “ungrown” brain into grown brain. While this is an exceedingly slow process, unleashing “pent up” brain growth (called Repression by the psychologists) is an ever at hand possibility which the mind is constantly working on. Either of these two mechanisms constitutes a miraculous physical change in reality when it happens.

It turns out that among other things it is your conscience, as well as the judgment of others, that is the arbiter of this transformation. If you are a bad person, these psychological forces will block the transformation process and vice versa, if you are good, it enhances the process. This is the physical explanation, and indeed the physical mechanism, by which God rules the world and rewards the good and punishes the evil. Thus the commandment to righteous moral behavior is a real physical one and obviously this power is absolute and from which there is no appeal.


3.How is your theory different from one that proposes to have discovered what the metaphor of "God" really represents? (i.e. how is your version of God a phenomenon in itself rather than something that earlier people used to illustrate or explain away ideas that were beyond them?)



[Hammond]
I'm not sure I entirely understand this question. But in the first place, it is positively proven that the phenomenon of "God" is caused by a Curvature (e.g. a speeding and magnifying) of subjective spacetime (reality) caused by the human Secular Trend in brain growth. Therefore, the phenomenon of God as reported in world religion has now been proven to be a real physical phenomenon. That certainly answers the first part of your question.

The second part of your question has me a bit mystified. In the first place, people noticed the phenomenon of God many thousands of years ago (cf. the Old Testament). They observed that the phenomena of God existed, but they could never scientifically prove it. All I'm contributing to this age old dilemma is that I have discovered the missing scientific proof. My discovery proves that "God" is in fact a stand alone real physical phenomenon in and of itself.

4.Why is your monotheistic God the Christian God rather than say, Brahma or Allah or Aton or something that we haven't invented a concept for yet?


[Hammond]
This is an easy question. My discovery proves that all of the 5 major monotheistic faiths namely: Christianity , Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism, are all worshipping one and the same God. Why; because there is only ONE physical phenomenon causing the observed phenomenon of a supreme deity. Therefore the God of all monotheistic religions must be the same God. It's as simple as that! Interestingly, this also goes for the ancient and now extinct Egyptian religion, where Ra or Aton, the Sun God, was the symbol of the "supreme deity" and which was what we simply call "God" today.

Needless to say the discovery of this scientific fact provides a stunning new basis for the ecumenical unification of the world's religions. The impact of such a global unification on world peace and the reduction of international conflict, to say nothing of the advancement of world Democracy and the reduction of tyranny can be nothing less than historic.

5. Here is the big one that I don't feel has been sufficiently answered(probably partially due to the awkwardness of my attempt to state it):

If I understand you correctly, we experience God because of the structure of our physical makeup. We experience optical illusions for the same reason. When science tackles the question of optical illusions, take for example the grid that makes you think you see dots that aren't really there, science explains why we experience the dots, but does not say that the existence of the dots is proven. How is your theory different?


[Hammond]
To say that God is an "optical illusion" or a "hallucination" is a very weak analogy although it is certainly related... hence the perennial fascination we have with such phenomena. The same explains out fascination with slow-motion photography, a fun-house curved mirror, or a simple magnifying glass. All of these "optical illusions" register on our unconscious mind as being somehow related to the phenomenon of "God", and they are.

In fact when I first discovered that God was caused by a Curvature of subjective spacetime, I immediately leapt to the conclusion that it would actually be possible to "see Heaven" by programming virtual reality devices such that you could "uncurve" our vision of the world and actually see Heaven in all it's glory.

Turns out it's not that simple because there is a practically non-computational piece of the puzzle that has no immediately simple solution. It turns out that the human persona, including particularly facial expression, reacts in a complicated fashion, and differently in almost each individual case, to the amount of Curvature (i.e. speeding and magnifying) that the individual person sees. This means that when your braingrowth deficit decreases (say due to the unleashing of psychological repression); that not only does the world slow down and get smaller, but everybody's facial expression and persona, their visible identity actually changes. So far, the only possible way to capture this visually is by the hand of an accomplished artist ! This of course is why the Mona Lisa is worth 500 million dollars, or why even a landscape like Velasquez's View of Toledo is worth a fortune. They are visual renderings of God and Heaven, which until now, no technological process could even begin to emulate. The appearance of any person, or even anything manmade completely changes in character with a change in brain growth and even the smallest transformation of the unconscious mind into conscious mind. (this is called "revelation" or even "a miracle" by the Church btw)

Now I predict, that once this theory becomes known and the applied scientists have a look at it, that YES they will rapidly make headway towards solving this technical hurdle, and YES, someday we will have virtual reality computers and devices which will allow us to see Heaven. Not only that, such devices will entirely transform the profession of Psychiatry. No longer will you have to listen for hours to an analyst trying to explain to you what a personality transformation is. No, in the future they will simply put a helmet on your head with virtual reality eyeglasses and headset and they will SHOW YOU what your new reality is going to look like and what your new persona is going to look like. And believe me, that is going to be a more thrilling , meaningful, and fascinating experience than movies, t.v. and optical illusions combined ever were! To say nothing of creating a billion dollar industry and practically eradicating the burden of mental health losses.

My best regards, George Hammond

===================================
HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
Casey Bennetto mp3 God=G_uv folk song:
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
==================================
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby George Hammond » Sun May 17, 2009 12:18 pm

"Rouzbeh": You discovered god in 1997. One can't help but wonder how many conferences you could've gone to, what Time magazine would've said, how many news articles could've been written, how many interviews on Fox as a result of such a tremendous discovery ....


[Hammond]
The above is a redacted quote from your last post. While your specific questions concerning the SPoG are trivial and are addressed in full in my paper so that I don't think I need to respond... I am interested in the remarks you have made above questioning why it is that Time magazine and Fox news are not beating a path to my door if I have indeed published the world's first Scientific Proof of God?

I don't know how familiar you are with the history of Science, but let me point out the case of Gregor Mendel. Mendel was an Abbot in a Augustinian monastery. Being a farmer by birth and a physicist by education he was encouraged to study plant variation by his professors. While studying variation in peas in the monastery garden he discovered the now famous binomial law of heredity, A+B => A + 2AB + B which is of course the mathematical foundation stone of modern genetics. Realizing the historic importance of this discovery and it's theoretical implications for Biology he wrote to every important biologist in Europe. No one paid any attention to him. He did succeed in publishing the result in an obscure Bavarian Horticulture journal, but of course few saw it and nobody paid any attention. In fact he spent the rest of his life trying to get anyone in Biology interested in the discovery, to no avail. As we know, the discovery didn't become known to the world until it was independently rediscovered by some big shot European biologists 40 years after Mendel died, and immediately his 60 year old paper was recognized as a historic scientific classic.

OK.... this kind of thing is legion and has happened repeatedly in the history of Science. Wilkins discovered kinetic gas theory 20 years before Maxwell and was refused publication, Faraday was refused publication of the electromagnetic field by Sir Humphrey Davies, and on and on. In every case we find that a maverick scientist who ACCIDENTLY makes an independent historic discovery is savagely ignored and forcefully suppressed by the established academic authorities. This is absolutely par for the course historically.

I was forced to publish the Scientific Proof of God in an obscure journal (Noetic Journal). I do not have a PhD (am an M.S.), and I am not affiliated with a University. I am therefore a MAVERICK scientist. The leading journals (Science, Nature, Phil. Tran. Royal Society, etc. etc.) wouldn't even consider publishing a "scientific proof of God" even if it was written by a Nobel Laureate never mind some no account unknown physicist living in a homeless shelter without even a PhD.... are you kidding?

Furthermore... there isn't even any such thing as an "expert" who could review the thing. How many people in the world are experts in Psychometry, Biology, Anatomy, Physics and Theology all at the same time? NOBODY is the answer... nobody but me apparently.

And last but not least, remember that most of academia today is blatently atheistic, particularly the hard sciences, and especially the biologists (cf. Richard Dawkins).

In fact, it turns out that if it were not for the INTERNET I would have no recourse but to remain just another Mendel or Wilkins.... totally silenced by an oppressive academia.

You have said:


If you don't like how discussions are performed online, I suggest you go somewhere more relevant than a free internet forum.



And my answer to that is NO, there is no one, not you, academia or anyone else is going to prevent me from using the Internet to counter attack the establishment.... in fact, a FREE AND OPEN INTERNET is the only means by which a closed and antagonistic (and even atheistic) academia can be challenged by independent researchers in this area who are denied publication in leading journals, ignored by the authorities and attacked by overprivleged adversaries.

If GREGOR MENDEL had access to the INTERNET, he would not have died an unknown scientist, and neither will Hammond !


===================================
HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
Casey Bennetto mp3 God=G_uv folk song:
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
==================================
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby Impenitent » Sun May 17, 2009 2:00 pm

cogito ergo cogito
sum ergo sum...

Λογοκρισία και σιωπή

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Oh, you don't know either?

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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby Rouzbeh » Mon May 18, 2009 6:43 pm

You have no affiliation with any scientific institute, and as I claimed in the first post I made in this topic that no academic would bother to look at this thing, I turn out to have been right. I don't think my questions were trivial and I think they could easily be answered when you clearly have enough time and no I won't read the entire thing especially when no relevant academic will. The point of bringing up Fox news is that they're representatives of the conservatives in the US, a group many members of whom support intelligent design. If the idiocy of intelligent design has merit over there and actually gets media coverage, I'm sure they wouldn't be opposed to another "scientific" proof to help them reconfirm beliefs of 2000 years ago which comprise of such great ideas as stoning people to death and waging holy war.

You have now gone on to compare yourself to the Robert Hookes and Alfred Wallaces of history. And high school dropouts liken themselves to Einstein. I think either you don't grasp the gravity of what you're saying or you're immeasurably delusional. The number of people who invented perpetual motion machines but were subdued by the government and the evil oil companies...

Academia is predominantly atheist. That's right. Perhaps one should reflect on why that is the case.

And such gems: "Furthermore... there isn't even any such thing as an "expert" who could review the thing. How many people in the world are experts in Psychometry, Biology, Anatomy, Physics and Theology all at the same time? NOBODY is the answer... nobody but me apparently."
Don't know what to say. The lone polymath of the 21st century who can claim knowledge in all of the above fields, when applied physics alone has become so specialized that entire phd's are done about specific aspects of the seemingly simple act of combustion in particular geometries. I see.


Anyway, it seems you've spent a considerable amount of time on the internet. I digged this up with a search of your username: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/George_Hammond
Note the [Hammond]. And you told me there was no funny factor.
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby George Hammond » Tue May 19, 2009 5:42 am

[Hammond]
Rouzbeh, your post has failed to secure my attention. As an obsessive compulsive atheist your bitter spewing is only fit for the alt-newsgroups and not a professionally moderated Philosophy forum such as this. I find your reference to the; and I quote: "goddamned moderators" to be particularly side splitting. Of course your agonizing confusion and pitiable outrage is an utterly fascinating source of entertainment and I expect as atheists go you are the new status quo rather than the exception. Your furious key pounding, your desperate grasping at Google searches, your expletives and gnashing of teeth is nothing less than positive confirmation that the world's first scientific proof of God has arrived.

Meanwhile of course you have said nothing on-topic that is of any interest, other than to confess your confusion at the fact that the Biblical Creation is explained by the advent of our species-- Homo Sapiens sapiens and that Adam and Eve were simply the first two Homo Sapiens sapiens on Earth. The reason for your incredulity is of course because you have never heard of and don't understand what the "Anthropic Principle" is and cannot fathom why it comes into existence when the first two human beings walked out of the evolutionary mists of history.


Rouzbeh: Academia is predominantly atheist. That's right. Perhaps one should reflect on why that is the case.



[Hammond]
I don't need to reflect on it-- I'm the one who has put an end to it. Obviously the discovery of a scientific proof of Godmarks the utter defeat and ignoble denouement of "Atheism". It's the end of the game for atheists. The atheists will have to put on their uniforms and go back to work. Maybe his nibs Richard Dawkins can write self help books in his dotage; for recovering atheists?


Anyway, it seems you've spent a considerable amount of time on the internet. I digged this up with a search of your username: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/George_Hammond
Note the [Hammond]. And you told me there was no funny factor.



[Hammond]
Yeah... I did find that Wikipedia article on [Hammond] with the "SPoG pyramid" with the eye on the top to be pretty funny. But I'm afraid this Internet satire is nothing compared to what the New Yorker has in store for me once the SPoG hits the streets.

Regards, Hammond

===================================
HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
Casey Bennetto mp3 God=G_uv folk song:
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
==================================
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby Faust » Tue May 19, 2009 5:47 am

For the record, I am a moderator here, and God damned me back in '71.

Not to interrupt.
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby thezeus18 » Tue May 19, 2009 7:06 am

Could I have the idiot's version of your theory? The one you plan to teach to the average Christian creationist, that is.
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby Rouzbeh » Tue May 19, 2009 10:00 am

71 [Hammond], what do you have to say to that. Your recurrent reference to the moderators is unwarranted, beyond annoying and a constant digression, hence my irritation.
Anyway. [Hammond], I've made my points and to be honest I don't know and frankly don't care enough anymore to look up the "Anthropic Principle". The main argument I have been trying to get an answer to is what exactly your god is. You say you've unified all the gods, but then you've also defined hinduism monotheistic like the abrahamic religions! When according to the Guardian, there's 330,000 deities. How in the world does that conform to the 13 personality types? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/28/nepal

You say this god is explained physically. The only thing I need to know to say that either your definition of god is different, or that you're flogging a dead horse, is that the laws of thermodynamics, and simple common sense, clearly prevent the transformation of water to wine. Or the god-ordained destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

If you're saying god is a manifestation of some psychological aspect of the human mind, and that religion is a product of our new perspective of the world due to some new phase of brain development, and that god is in fact therefore a product of humanity, not humanity a product of it, then that's your definition. If you're saying the abrahamic god actually created this world 40k years ago and performed miracles, miracles being events initiated outside the laws of the world by the entity described in the main abrahamic religions, who ordains holy war and sanctions stoning people to death, then that's just silly. You haven't made this position clear.
I'm not atheist by the way, but like the men in the vatican observatory, I know the difference between metaphors and moral lessons, and literal interpretations. And like the inventors of perpetual motions machines no longer being acknowledged by the patent office, I don't think you're revolutionary, just stubborn. As exemplified by this claim: "Furthermore... there isn't even any such thing as an "expert" who could review the thing. How many people in the world are experts in Psychometry, Biology, Anatomy, Physics and Theology all at the same time? NOBODY is the answer... nobody but me apparently."
And really, if people accept intelligent design as a valid theory, you don't think they could accept a "real" scientific theory?

Having made those final points, and in order to avoid making this a "who gets the last post" competition between myself and [Hammond], my participation in this topic, unlike the perpetual motion machine, has run out fuel.
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby George Hammond » Wed May 20, 2009 1:28 pm

Rouzbeh wrote:71 Having made those final points, and in order to avoid making this a "who gets the last post" competition between myself and [Hammond], my participation in this topic, unlike the perpetual motion machine, has run out fuel.


[Hammond]
Your rude and amateur commentary does not even rise to the baccalaureate level. Moreover you admit to being too lazy and disinterested to even read the paper under discussion preferring to a priori refute it with your scintillating homegrown logic which is supposed to intimidate we the learned. You should stick to biodeisel engineering where you belong and leave the heavy mental lifting to the Physics and Philosophy departments. We certainly hope you make good on your threat not to post any further to this thread since your statements are so insolent, juvenile and boring to educated people.

One can only pray that such cock sure impudence as yours doesn't wind up in a padded cell or jump off a bridge trying to figure out how Jesus turned water into wine.

Finally, You have not scored a single point against the SPoG and ludicrously while you understand the futility of perpetual motion you fail to comprehend the futility of trying to find a fault in a scientific proof of God that has already been proven.

Take care, Hammond

===================================
HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
Casey Bennetto mp3 God=G_uv folk song:
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==================================
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby George Hammond » Wed May 20, 2009 10:41 pm

thezeus18 wrote:Could I have the idiot's version of your theory? The one you plan to teach to the average Christian creationist, that is.


[Hammond]
Ok, you have asked for a dumbed down version of the discovery. Certainly you must realize that any simplified version must sacrifice detail and therefore you cannot turn around and pedantically argue that the simple version is not rigorous. You cannot have your cake and eat it too! By the way, the full scale rigorous version of the SPOG has been posted for your reading convenience at: http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god and is 20 pages long and I STRONGLY RECOMMEND that you read the first four large print fully illustrated pages of my website (URL below) before you attempt to read that paper.

Having said that let me point out that the Creationists and Fundamentalists despite their legendary incompetence in basic science, DO HAPPEN TO BE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT THAT BIBLICAL CREATION IS A TRUE SCIENTIFIC FACT. I'm sure that assertion must come as a shock to you, judging from your question.

In the following I present a simplified version of the Scientific Proof of God (aka SPOG) that I published in 2003:


Simplified Version of the Scientific Proof of God (SPOG)

The SPOG is an experimentally proven scientific proof of the scientific phenomenon traditionally
known as "GOD", which was published by physicist George Hammond in 2003.

According to the SPOG the God of the Bible is actually a real physical phenomenon which warps
or modulates personal reality (i.e. what you see) making the world look bigger and faster than
it actually is and in the process dramatically disguising the real identity of every single person that
you see. The direct biological cause of this startling phenomena is something called the Secular Trend
in human growth which has been known and studied for over 100 years. According to
Secular Trend measurements the average adult person is only about 80% fully grown today and we
are only slowly approaching full genotypic size over a very long historical time period. The
immediate consequence of this is that not only is our phenotype 20% short of our genotype in height and weight,
but most importantly, our brains are consequently 20% short of their full size and thus perceptual capacity. The
direct result of this 20% deficit in our brain growth is that 20 % of the world is actually INVISIBLE
to the average adult human being, more or less.

This invisible world was noticed thousands of years ago by the Theologians and is called "Heaven"
In fact the Bible is the world's oldest (largely metaphorical and euphemistic) description of the phenomena and it's impact on
human behavior generally, and society in particular.

As for the "Creation" of the world described in Genesis, we see immediately that if the growth of the brain
causes a universal and gross modulation of reality, and this can be rigorously proven and measured, then it is
obviously a direct corollary that the advent of the human brain constitutes a de facto advent of
reality itself. To be noted is that this is not an unsupported conclusion of my own, it happens to be a scientific
principle that is fully accepted by modern Physics, where it is known as the ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE.

Simply put then, "reality" was "Created" when the (modern) human brain arrived on Earth. Since we know
that our species, Homo Sapiens sapiens, emerged about 200,000 years ago; then reality itself was
Created 200,000 years ago and Adam and Eve were simply the first two Homo Sapiens sapiens to
walk the Earth and were the first beings to actually see "reality as we know it".

THEREFORE, the "Biblical Creation" is a SCIENTIFIC FACT and did actually occur mere "thousands" of years
ago, not "billions" of years ago as the physicists say.

Of course this does NOT disprove the Big Bang which indubitably happened 15 billion years ago, but the
point is the Big Bang only occurred WITHIN REALITY as we have just explained, therefore in that regard,
the birth of reality actually (causally) occurred BEFORE the Big Bang even though 200,000 years is
far less than 15 billion years.

Well, that is only a thumbnail sketch of the SPOG and I am busy writing a full length book entitled:

The
Scientific
Proof of God


which I hope will answer all your questions about the scientific explanation of God.

Best regards, George Hammond, M.S. Physics
===================================
HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
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http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
==================================
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby thezeus18 » Thu May 21, 2009 4:53 pm

Oh ok. You're wrong. A 20% increase in brain mass can't be connected to seeing 20% more stuff in the world that just isn't there when you only have 80%. Genesis doesn't describe a psychological awakening but the actual creation of all the stuff, not 200 000 years ago as you suggest but 10 000. Also, homo sapiens has its origin 400 000 years ago at least, not 200 000 years ago. Your ideas don't prove God, they just show a semi-coherent line of thought that might allow him, and, moreover, they're about as different from what creationists believe as an atheistic viewpoint is.

There is no sudden emergence of a modern human brain, and according to your idea of increased brain size increasing awareness, genesis should describe a gradual process of increased awareness as brain size increases over thousands of years, not a sudden birth. Not "And then there was light" but "the prick of light got brighter and brighter, and is still brightening today", so to speak.

The anthropic principle only requires an observing entity and goes no length to define what that is. If there's an omniscient god, then all universes are observed and the anthropic principle doesn't apply to ours more than to any of them. Even if there's no god, the line between observer (humans) and non-observer (rocks) is so blurry that it's arguable it doesn't exist, and given this, the anthropic principle again can't really be used.

Pretty cool job of fitting the facts to religious statements, but it's not science, only postulation.
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby George Hammond » Thu May 21, 2009 9:40 pm

"thezeus18"]Oh ok. You're wrong. A 20% increase in brain mass can't be connected to seeing 20% more stuff in the world that just isn't there when you only have 80%.


[Hammond]
Incorrect. Ordinary motion picture movies operate on something called the "Picture Fusion Frequency" (PFF) which is about 16 frames/second for the average person. Anything moving with a frequency greater than 16 Hz is INVISIBLE to the average person. This has been known since the time of Thomas Edison who discovered it. As a matter of fact the PFF increases directly with brain growth which is proven by the fact that the PFF increases from 10 Hz at age 7 to 16 Hz at age 15 in CHILDREN and is obviously directly due to BRAIN GROWTH as is the linear increase in INTELLIGENCE (mental speed) due to the same cause. Basically, HALF of the motion visible to an adult is INVISIBLE to a half grown child due directly to brain growth. These are well known commonplace scientific facts which are beyond dispute. You stand corrected.

Genesis doesn't describe a psychological awakening but the actual creation of all the stuff, not 200 000 years ago as you suggest but 10 000.


[Hammond]
That is your interpretation of the Bible. The scientific fact of the Anthropic Principle supports my scientific explanation, not your opinion.

Also, homo sapiens has its origin 400 000 years ago at least, not 200 000 years ago.


[Hammond]
6004 years, 40,000 years, 100,000 years, 200,000 years, 400,000 years... makes no difference to the scientific explanation.... they are all SMALL NUMBERS compared to the 15-BILLION YEARS of the Big Bang. Obviously the appearance of our species, Homo Sapiens sapiens thousands of years ago neatly explains Genesis including identifying Adam and Eve as simply the first two Homo Sapiens sapiens..... tell me; how does the Big Bang explain Adam and Eve? Genesis is the description of the birth of reality itself while the Big Bang is merely a description of the birth of physical structure within reality genesis is a far more sophisticated and relevant theory than the Big Bang practically speaking.

Your ideas don't prove God, they just show a semi-coherent line of thought that might allow him,


[Hammond]
Absolutely incorrect. The SPOG presents an overwhelming, necessary and sufficient and totally experimentally confirmed scientific explanation of the entire phenomenon of God. Every item in the Bible and classical Religion is naturally, easily, and stunningly scientifically explained, including the invisible anthropomorphic God of Monotheism, the invisible Heaven, the Creation, Adam and Eve, the 12 Olympian gods of Paganism, what miracles are, what causes the Trinity, what Eternal Life is, etc. there is nothing "semi-coherent" about it. You stand corrected.

and, moreover, they're about as different from what creationists believe as an atheistic viewpoint is.


[Hammond]
Incorrect. The SPOG proves that the Creationists are absolutely CORRECT in their claim that the Biblical Creation is a scientific fact.
once again you stand corrected.


There is no sudden emergence of a modern human brain, and according to your idea of increased brain size increasing awareness, genesis should describe a gradual process of increased awareness as brain size increases over thousands of years, not a sudden birth. Not "And then there was light" but "the prick of light got brighter and brighter, and is still brightening today", so to speak.


[Hammond]
If the universe is 15-billion years old, then the emergence of Homo Sapiens sapiens "over thousands of years" as you put it, CERTAINLY may be referred to as "sudden". Again the facts indicate that I am right and the Creationists are right. Also to be noted is that none of this disproves in any way shape or form the fact that Darwin is ALSO right. Fact is, BOTH Creationism and Evolution are absolutely scientifically correct, and they are MUTUALLY CONSISTENT scientific theories. And I might add that the SPOG is the world's first hard science proof of that! And I appeal to the Philosophy department as the neutral voice of reason in this matter. I am being clawed by Religion on one side and Science on the other!


The anthropic principle only requires an observing entity and goes no length to define what that is.


[Hammond]
Again you are incorrect. The reason it is called the "anthropic" principle is because MAN is the observer. Fact is, all of Physics is based on "observables" and you can't have observables without an "observer". The Anthropic Principle is simply the recognition of the fact that MAN is the observer in Physics, and that the Anthropic Principle proves the actual physical consequences of that fact.


If there's an omniscient god, then all universes are observed and the anthropic principle doesn't apply to ours more than to any of them.


[Hammond]
There is absolutely no palpable evidence whatsoever that there are "other universes". And even if there are, it makes no difference to either the SPOG or canonical religion. The SPOG proves that the perfect human mind is in fact the mind of God, irregardless of how many universes there are.



Even if there's no god,


[Hammond]
The assertion that there is "no God" has been thoroughly disproved by the discovery of a SPOG, Richard Dawkins notwithstanding.


the line between observer (humans) and non-observer (rocks) is so blurry that it's arguable it doesn't exist, and given this, the anthropic principle again can't really be used.


[Hammond]
Incorrect, Stephen Hawking cites the Anthropic Principle 15 times in his famous book A Brief History of Time and says specifically:

"Few people would quarrel with the validity or utility of the weak Anthropic Principle"
(Stephen Hawking, A Brief History of Time Ch 8, pg. 129)

He then goes on to mention how it is used to explain why the Universe happens to be 15 billion years old. The AP is also famous for explaining Dirac's Paradox, and in a celebrated case was even used by the physicist Fred Hoyle to predict the existence of a previously unknown excited state of Carbon which was promptly confirmed experimentally to the utter amazement of the scientific community . But now what we have is an even more amazing discovery; that Hammond's SPOG scientifically proves that the Anthropic Principle explains the Biblical Creation!


Pretty cool job of fitting the facts to religious statements, but it's not science, only postulation.


[Hammond]
That is a preposterous and false statement which has just been thoroughly disproved by the above. You have been handily picked off by the pitcher while clumsily trying to lead from second base.

===================================
HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
Casey Bennetto mp3 God=G_uv folk song:
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
==================================
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby Mad Man P » Fri May 22, 2009 1:50 am

Just a quick comment... then I'll leave you all to continue this mockery of the scientific method.

The human eye can only detect a given portion of the EM spectrum due to the nature of the photosensitivity cells it employs. As for the "frame-rate" of human perception, that's irrelevant since we have equipment that can detect spectrums invisible to our eyes, and which can easily capture frequencies far greater than 20% above and beyond our ability to detect. If there truly where a "world" flickering in and out at a frequency faster than our ability to detect, our machinery would be able to capture whatever electro-magnetic radiation it might emit and replay it for us at a slower rate so as to make it visible... the same goes for any other PHYSICAL thing you can think to suggest that we currently be unable to detect via our senses.
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby thezeus18 » Fri May 22, 2009 2:48 am

Mad Man P wrote:Just a quick comment... then I'll leave you all to continue this mockery of the scientific method.


Me?

The human eye...


I was about to say that.
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby Mad Man P » Fri May 22, 2009 3:09 am

thezeus18 wrote:Me?


No :D

I meant the "scientific" proof presented.
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby thezeus18 » Fri May 22, 2009 4:21 am

Oh, well, you know it's not too bad. It would have made a good episode of Star Trek, maybe even a good Star Trek movie, for that matter. In terms of Science-Fiction, it's actually a half-good idea, but I'm pretty sure it's been done before.
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby George Hammond » Fri May 22, 2009 7:58 am

Mad Man P wrote:Just a quick comment... then I'll leave you all to continue this mockery of the scientific method.

The human eye can only detect a given portion of the EM spectrum due to the nature of the photosensitivity cells it employs. As for the "frame-rate" of human perception, that's irrelevant since we have equipment that can detect spectrums invisible to our eyes, and which can easily capture frequencies far greater than 20% above and beyond our ability to detect. If there truly where a "world" flickering in and out at a frequency faster than our ability to detect, our machinery would be able to capture whatever electro-magnetic radiation it might emit and replay it for us at a slower rate so as to make it visible... the same goes for any other PHYSICAL thing you can think to suggest that we currently be unable to detect via our senses.


[Hammond]
LOL. Your comments are scientifically irrelevant. The Movie Picture Fusion Frequency (PFF) has absolutely NOTHING to do with electromagnetic radiation.

Let me give you an elementary explanation of the significance of the PFF to the INVISIBLE WORLD of religion.

We all know how a dog whistle works. A dog can hear frequencies up to 40 kc but a human can only hear frequencies up to 20 kc. This means that ONE HALF of a dog's world is TOTALLY INAUDIBLE to a human being.

This not only works with hearing, it also works with VISION. The PFF is the visual version of a dog whistle test. A 7 year old child who has ONE HALF the PFF of an adult can only see ONE HALF of the motion that an adult can see for the same reason a human can't hear a dog whistle.

This PROVES that human lack of growth causes an INVISBLE WORLD, and in religion this INVISBLE WORLD is called HEAVEN. QED

I would remind you that I have two degrees in Physics from accredited universities
in Massachusetts and my CV is clearly posted on my website (URL below).

Your comments are irrelevant and/or incompetent and you stand corrected.

You will simply have to send a more worthy challenger.

Regards, Hammond

===================================
HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
Casey Bennetto mp3 God=G_uv folk song:
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
==================================
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby thezeus18 » Fri May 22, 2009 8:17 am

Read his post to the end and then see if your response is not accounted for in it.
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby George Hammond » Fri May 22, 2009 8:19 am

thezeus18 wrote:Oh, well, you know it's not too bad. It would have made a good episode of Star Trek, maybe even a good Star Trek movie, for that matter. In terms of Science-Fiction, it's actually a half-good idea, but I'm pretty sure it's been done before.


[Hammond]
Na... the SPOG has never been done before. In fact within 10 years, after the SPOG has been accepted by modern Science, Hollywood will doubtlessly make an action thriller movie about my discovery of the world's first scientific proof of god, car chases and world famous scientists and all, probably entitled SPOG. It will make Dan Brown fictional movies look like a high school play. Who will be playing me, I dunno... new actors are coming along all the time.

As you know the avante guarde has already discovered me and an Australian folk group has recorded a song about me (see URL in my sig. file below). Anyway, SPOG is a movie you're not gonna want to miss.

By the way, you all will be playing the bad guys.

Regards, Hammond

===================================
HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
Casey Bennetto mp3 God=G_uv folk song:
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==================================
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby George Hammond » Fri May 22, 2009 9:20 am

thezeus18 wrote:Read his post to the end and then see if your response is not accounted for in it.



[Hammond]
Dear <thezeus>I presume you are talking to me and that you are referring to <Mad Man P>'s comment about using slo-motion to see the invisible world.

The answer is NO, you cannot use Slo-mo to see the invisible world for the same reason you can't make a tape-recording of high frequencies and then slow it down to hear what a dog can hear. Slowing the world down is NOT the same as having your brain speed up. If that were true we wouldn't need artists like Da Vinci to paint the Mona Lisa, we could simply use a camera. And we KNOW that suggestion is absurd. Slowing down people using Slo-mo just makes it look like the SAME PERSON is moving more slowly, whereas having your brain speed up (increased mental speed due to brain growth or lifting of repression) completely CHANGES the perceived personality and identity of the person you are looking at, as well as slowing them down-- and this is why the Mona Lisa is worth 500 million dollars.... because virtual reality computers are not presently capable of computing this former effect.... although eventually they will be, using the discovery of the SPOG.

It is this power, the power of God, that people and Religion have been raving about for thousands of years... and believe me it is real and the SPOG is the world's first scientific proof of it.

Incidentally, caricature artists are specialists in cartooning what this "change in identity" due to the effect of God actually looks like. Until you see it with your own eyes you can scarcely believe it... but millions of religious people already know all about it which is why they are "believers in God". Like I say, eventually, using the Curvature equations of the SPOG, virtual reality will allow everybody to see this effect without having to become schizophrenic trying to see it (incidentally, this visual search for God, which is as old as the hills, is the main etiology in schizophrenia). This too has been known for thousands of years, certainly ever since the NT reported Jesus' famous meeting with "Legion" the man with many personalities (e.g. a schizophrenic) in a cemetery near the sea of Galilee.

===================================
HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
Casey Bennetto mp3 God=G_uv folk song:
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
==================================
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Posts: 141
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby thezeus18 » Fri May 22, 2009 9:30 pm

George Hammond wrote:
thezeus18 wrote:Read his post to the end and then see if your response is not accounted for in it.



[Hammond]
Dear <thezeus>I presume you are talking to me and that you are referring to <Mad Man P>'s comment about using slo-motion to see the invisible world.

The answer is NO, you cannot use Slo-mo to see the invisible world for the same reason you can't make a tape-recording of high frequencies and then slow it down to hear what a dog can hear. Slowing the world down is NOT the same as having your brain speed up. If that were true we wouldn't need artists like Da Vinci to paint the Mona Lisa, we could simply use a camera. And we KNOW that suggestion is absurd. Slowing down people using Slo-mo just makes it look like the SAME PERSON is moving more slowly, whereas having your brain speed up (increased mental speed due to brain growth or lifting of repression) completely CHANGES the perceived personality and identity of the person you are looking at, as well as slowing them down-- and this is why the Mona Lisa is worth 500 million dollars.... because virtual reality computers are not presently capable of computing this former effect.... although eventually they will be, using the discovery of the SPOG.

It is this power, the power of God, that people and Religion have been raving about for thousands of years... and believe me it is real and the SPOG is the world's first scientific proof of it.

Incidentally, caricature artists are specialists in cartooning what this "change in identity" due to the effect of God actually looks like. Until you see it with your own eyes you can scarcely believe it... but millions of religious people already know all about it which is why they are "believers in God". Like I say, eventually, using the Curvature equations of the SPOG, virtual reality will allow everybody to see this effect without having to become schizophrenic trying to see it (incidentally, this visual search for God, which is as old as the hills, is the main etiology in schizophrenia). This too has been known for thousands of years, certainly ever since the NT reported Jesus' famous meeting with "Legion" the man with many personalities (e.g. a schizophrenic) in a cemetery near the sea of Galilee.


None of that makes any sense. Good luck with your theory.

EDIT: lest there be any doubt, "doesn't make any sense" doesn't mean "I'm too x or not y enough to understand", it means that what you wrote actually doesn't follow logically from one point to the next, or is so unclear that it's just a communication disaster.
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Re: Discovery of a Scientific Proof of God

Postby George Hammond » Fri May 22, 2009 11:03 pm

<thezeus> wrote:

<thezeus>None of that makes any sense.

EDIT: lest there be any doubt, "doesn't make any sense" doesn't mean "I'm too x or not y enough to understand", it means that what you wrote actually doesn't follow logically from one point to the next, or is so unclear that it's just a communication disaster.


[Hammond]
Hammond obviously doesn't need luck. You do. Hammond is holding a Royal Straight Flush in Spades and can't be called, least of all you. You're statment is an "unsupported assertion" by a pseudoanonymous person with no posted CV or credentials in Science, Theology, or Psychometry.

Therefore your statement is merely an unqualifed jactitation which cannot be demonstrated, and is manifestly incompetent and false.

The theory you refer to has been published in the peer reviewed academic literature in two journals and the author has two degrees in Physics which testifies to the fact that the theory is hardly "nonsense" as you friviously claim.

Your statement would be laughed out of any any competent academic forum that required real credentials.
I'm sorry my discovery of a scientific proof of God is beyond your ability, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

Good luck, Hammond

===================================
HAMMOND'S PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
Casey Bennetto mp3 God=G_uv folk song:
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==================================
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