I think what she means by looking inside yourself has to do with the soul or metaphysical essance within the coporil form.
By doing this you would be looking into a doorway of sort’s into a universe of infinite knowlegde and information. With which almost any answer you seek could be found. Whereas looking outside of yourself may provide the answers not found inside. But here we are not talking about issues that concern the physical but the mental and metaphysical.
Your inability to see this possibility or side of the story, Is somthing you should look into yourself on and perhaps reevaluate your own openmindedness tword’s the oppinions of other’s.
[i]Most only see 2 side’s of any point of view, You must strive to see the side noone else can, and then pull it out of the fog and into visable creation.
First let me preface this by saying brother tentative needs not my intrusion, but alas, it fails me to stop.
“Assumption”. Logical fallacy, supported by nothing more than ego, and internal suppositions of personal superiority.
No one has anything of value to teach, because that which is most important must be experienced, i.e. self-taught within the context of impending mortality of the flesh.
Further, words are symbols, based upon propositions of assessed value regarding particular objects, but not the object entirely … words express singular facets, in the perception of the mind that absorbs information in a fragmentary and segmented manner.
That you didn’t correct this statement, bolded excerpt by me, and reformulate it, shows resoundingly, that you are utterly bereft of understanding the now public idiocy of your personal superiority complex.
Human beings are not static machinations to be fixed by a mechanic or an engineer. They are self-correcting, which means they must prevail to proper conclusions of their own volition … or else they are blinded sheep being lead down a path, unknowingly.
Compassion? Not at all. Self-serving narcissism that you believe you are in possession of such enigmatic wisdom as to “save” someone. Maybe you should opt for a new name … perhaps “Hitler”, or “Napoleon” or “Lucifer”.
Strange, curious even. Nowhere do I see tentative aspiring to hope or wisdom in his own words. Projection?
Of course, you must think actually think quite highly of him that you know for certain that he has expounded such wisdom as to lead humanity certainly, ever onward? His only assertion was that he was sharing ideas, of which you could engage, or leave it as is, and walk away.
The superior remark here for you would have been, “I am sheep, hear my masticator smacketh of indoctrination incessantly, I have learned nothing, and regurgitate from alpha to omega, without cessation.”
This is a good time for you to learn a lesson about ILP: You are not any more comprised of wisdom than anyone else, and the more you tout your superiority, the more resistance you will meet.
As the Impenitent sage has told many others: You are unique and special, just like everyone else.
But I did say so, every way I could think of. Perhaps it just needed a different perspective from which to see? Perspectives change with us.
Ned,
All I can say is that you don’t know even half of what you think you know - about what is being discussed here or any of the others involved. The sad part is that you are so convinced of your superior knowing that there really isn’t any way to continue discussing with you. Your assumptions preclude any possible answers but your own.
Mas,
Thanks. You said it better than I could - or would. I’m in a mood right now and dealing with a rather short string…
The wise play as ignorant and the ignorant play as wise.
Knowlegde is gained through experiance and discusion, not proveing which of you is more vain than the other.
Big word’s and a viable vocabulary do not make you a wise man or women. A wise man knows not that he is such and alway’s views oneself as a student.
Which is indeed what we all are.
We are here to learn from each other and if teaching is what you wish to do, do not teach your oppinions of others with force. If makeing other’s see your side is corect, Captivate their imagination and mind rather than forceing your intelect upon them. Many would not understand some thing’s on this site, But all should have the chance to try, and it should be your preferance to help them understand not your theory but there own, instead of making them feel foolish.
Anger will cause you nothing and get you nothing. It is a raw passionate emotion which distort’s the mind and the reality around you. And cause you to say and do thing’s you may later regrette. Or cause a possible friend to turn away because of one remark mentioned to someone else and overheard heard by them.
Again, everyone starts somwhere, knowlegde is vast and free and anyone can partake of it.
So then you agree that that which cannot be seen can be known? By observing the present I am able to know the past. By observing the present I am able to know the future. It must surely be a matter of depth of penetration.
hmm, You only quote part of what I stated in a sentance or paragraph ment to be read as a whole. This is why misconceptions take place in writen and spoken language. Some only hear and see what they want. Not what is actualy there.
And as far as Force goes there are many form’s. One as intelligeant as you should know this.
What I write here is ment to be absorbed as a whole not broken down piece by piece. There are no hidden meanings in what I say only my oppinion. And therefore no reason to break it down.
By doing so you defeat the purpose of the stated oppinion I have offered.
How about trying to add to instead of proving it incorect?
Because personaly it is my oppinion, and my oppinion will only be changed by my experiances, Not what you say or write. I write so that other’s may think and ponder. Not so that those thought’s which may benifit other’s can be torn apart by those who would prove themselve’s corect on a matter. It is not a matter of proving only a matter of wondering. Because no mater how much you discus or how much you want, in this field you will never prove anything to anyone except yourself, and perhaps not even that.
ummmm, yes, kinda sorta, but probably not in the way that you see it. That there are underlying patterns implied by the manifest ‘structures’ of existence is readily seen. The co-dependency of opposites, field and focus, are part of those patterns. I would agree that in re-creating in the present, something of the past may be discovered that was not seen in the first experiencing. Of course, one cannot know the past, but only the present because your perspective has changed. Often times, most of the time, this is the basis of learning and understanding. Nothing has changed but the perspectival point. (we are process) I would question strongly any ability to know the future. I can, based on the learning from past experiences, project a likely future, but I cannot rule out sponteniety and novelty in any possible experience until the ‘future’ is now. To say I see the future is to become deterministic -ie- attempting to make an experience become a self-fulfilling prophesy.
Depth of penetration: Well, it is undoubtably true that sensitivity of awareness varies among individuals, but one is faced with finding assurance that what they see is reality expressed as opposed to ego projecting it’s own ‘reality’. (the self-fulfilling prophesy again).
I’ve mentioned this before, but it certainly applies here. The easiest thing in the world is to transcend one set of illusions and not see the next larger set. “The path of enlightment leads straight to hell.”
For me, the critical understanding is always in knowing the limits of what I may know. Without that understanding one enters the hall of mirrors, and the reflections get so tangled that one may never escape. Seeing behind the illusions inside the illusions inside the illusions… I have my experiences of the moment, and I bring to bear all my awareness, all my heart/mind capacity. I will not enter the hall of mirrors…
I’ll quote it all if you like but inserting comments as we go is the best way to answer questions directly
If you feel that I’m forcing you to do something then I’m slightly puzzled as to what. I post my opinion without too much in the way of developing a grand conspiracy to take over other people’s thought processes.
Long paragraphs of prose are hard to read.
Ok, the subject is “being out of alignment with the universe”. As tentative pointed out many people feel this way. They feel this way because God gave us a conscience. Our conscience bothers us and tells us that we need some answer to the problem of me, why can’t I live a good life, why can’t I feel at peace with myself. The answer is sin. We are naturally sinful and we cannot stop no matter how hard we try. God’s answer is sending his son to die for our sins. By repenting and believing in him we can find peace, live a good life, and be free from our nagging conscience.
Hebrews 10
19Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.
There, I’ve added something.
You have articulated your reasons for posting. I guess mine are slightly different.
Perspective may have changed, but certainly it is a wider angle. So what may not have been observed in the past could certainly be observed in the present.
Not neccessarily. The Buddha said that if you want to know your future, look at your present. ie. observe the seeds planted in the present. If you plant the seeds of an apple, you will grow an apple tree. We reap what we sow. You may not know what the tree will look like, how many branches it will grow or how many apples it will yield, but you are aware that you have planted an apple tree.
I would take it one step further. I would say, that based on the past experience, one can observe the future trend. Of course one doesn’t need one’s eyes to see. The spiritual realm is not linear, there is no time, all things exist together, all is One.
Of course JT. One continuously has to introspect oneself. Is what I see real? Is it Real? Does what I see in others really belong to me? As far as depth of penetration goes. One is talking of spirituality where the difference between reality and illusion is known. One is talking of true awareness, not an idea of what awareness might be.
Ned, If I wasn’t who and what I am I might be goaded into an argument with you, But I am what I am. So I will say this on that topic and then nothing else.
That opinion was stated in defense of another. And the forceing had nothing do do with me feeling that you are forcing me to do anything, Frankly the fact that you are arogant enough to asume that is what I ment amuses me.
My paragraphs of prose may be hard for you to understand or read because you seam to only be able to rap your head around what you know or think you know.
What have you added? You have qouted somthing from a book. It is not an original thought created by you and added to the mix, or even an original question. You aparently believe in God and feel it necesary to state that oppinion in such a way it is visable for everyone to see your belief. Even quoting a verse from the Bible and following it up with a statement that makes it fact in your eye’s.
Let me clarify that I am also stateing 3 as an example, whether or not he believes in God is irelivant, and personaly am not biased to any belief and could care less.
It makes you a target basicaly.
But enough, I am not here to argue about trivial mistakes in writeing or tell you that what you say is not correct. I am here to throw my oppinion’s into this vast web and see if they are caught up by those around me.
I “know” what is and is not. I state my oppinion’s on here to see if other’s can figure out the truth for themselve’s. From my reading some of you are very close, Especialy this Dan fellow on here. You should read his wise is wise post. See if you understand it. I garantee you wont be able to convey what he is saying in word’s any better than they are already stated. And still they can not convey what he wanted to say I am guessing.
Do you really think this Physical deminsion is populated by only humans? There are many who exist here in a coporial shell because we choose to. You discus this theory and other’s But do you actualy believe what you say? or do you just discus it for the amusement of what percentage of graymatter in your brain you use? Surly there are those of you who serriously are interested in finding what is really out there. If not, I pity you.
I try to read most of everything that is said on here, However I find myself getting bored with the repetitive circles being ran by some of you. I could list several post from here that discuss and say the exact same thing 3 or 4 times. Not even in diferent word’s. Open your mind’s jump, you may find somthing different than what you asumed to be there. Don’t be afraid to express the obsurd you might be suprised to realize that the most complicated concept’s become visable and make sense once you’ve snaped a couple of time’s.
Also in a large % of post you all seam to be discussing the exact same thing in diferent term’s or meaning’s. It’s kind of like beating a dead horse, especialy when the answer to your suposed question or theory is right in front of you. Most of you are just to caught up in complication or intelectual conversation to see it. Of course for some of you maybe it is a problem you seek rather than a solution.
And the ones that express the truth are quickly smashed away or rushed to be disaproved. You are a waring species and your underdeveloped thought paterns are detremental to your own metaphysical evolution.
Still, because of the few, you are fascinateing and worth while to watch.
One day you will understand. And when that day come’s you will not have any need for discusion or theorization except for your own amusement.
The wonderfulthing about philosophy is that you have no Ideal weather I am speaking matter of factly or simply theorizing what it would be like to.
I’ll let you make your own decision on the matter. The sad part is I know what 99% of you will choose. Disapointing. (Do you know why I added this last part)? Dont post it just think about it. Some questions do not require answers.
Appearing to be “smarter” is like beating a person at a game of chess, instead of doing something other then playing games.
Lo. You win a living breathing servant.
She’s not human… thought…
She’s superhuman, but she already understands that humans abuse “animals” as soon as those “animals” lack in the field of amusement.
So now, you can see that she is trying to be amusing as possible, and she is so “fun”–but she’s just trying to save her life, socially. A new species goes extinct every day.
Yes. We may observe from our ‘new’ perspective and learn from past experiences. That is the nature of reflection, to see from a new and different perspective.
Planting a seed is a nice metaphor to describe tzu, but humans are not only self-so, but are co-creators. To see a vague pattern of what may occur as the future becomes the present is one thing, but it is a bit of a stretch to arrive at any knowing of the complexity of the spontaneous interactions as an experience is coming into being. We may understand that there is dancing, but not the movements of the dancers as they act and are acted upon in the moment. How we act pre-disposes a range of possible outcomes, but knowing generally isn’t knowing specifically.
And here is perhaps the core difference in our understanding. You say that spirituality allows us to know the difference between reality and illusion, and is the difference between ‘true’ awareness and an idea of awareness. I suppose it is possible. I’ve not met a Buddha or a Jesus, but I cannot deny the possibility.
A question: Have you ever acted out of your most genuine heart/mind only to find in reflection that you made a mistake, a mistake of illusion? I have. Countless times. I try to not make the same mistake twice, and from that there is a modest amount of growth, but I have discovered that the illusions are much like the little Russian nest of dolls you may have had as a child. One doll fits inside another, and another, and another… No matter how many illusions we shed, there is another set right behind it. I do not question the over-all patterns I see ‘behind’ apparent reality, but for me, the unknowable is pre-immanent. Oddly, in letting go of seeking to know, one begins to know, and living in awareness becomes possible. Being, not being as.
Tentative is on the right path.
So how does that realization make you feel? That somtime’s letting go is the way to find? You see when you are searching you have a given set of variables or expectations on a path you have choosen, this path alway’s has boundries no matter how wide they are, they are still there.
When you choose to stop, and just peer off into the distance you begin to see how limited your search was to begin with and realizations start to come.
You can not “search” for knowlegde because all knowlegde relates to all knowlegde. To start searching for any part of that knowlegde by itself eliminates the finding of the very knowlegde you need to achieve that goal.
You say this because for some reason you discount pondering and the necessary distinction between what is real in a person and acquired preconditioning.
But we are unable to search from what is genuine in ourselves because we are captive of our preconditioning or personality.
I would argree that the search from our normal preconditioned boundries is of minimal benefit. Its greatest benefit is in gradually accepting that we don’t get anywhere. But the search as genuine pondering IMO is very beneficial. The problem is acquiring the ability and freedom to ponder. This is very difficult.
I don’t think that understanding the bigger picture is vague in the least. I feel that one has to turn one’s mind to be able to encompass life from a different level of awareness. It isn’t neccessary to know the physical manifestations, it is only important to grasp the spiritual implications. When we understand that, then everything falls into place naturally. ie. the bigger picture becomes visible. All things exist together and therefore we are able to observe all things in the present moment. Perhaps though we have certain expectations of what the future should look like, then we are acting out of mind and not of heart isn’t it JT?
If you have made the mistake of illusion, you are not acting out of your genuine heart. Your intentions might be sincere but it is not your genuine heart. Your genuine heart knows the difference between that which is real and that which is maya. Of course the mind will trick you. It will say, but I am sincere. Oh I know the illusion of the sincerity of my mind very well. One has to listen to one’s conscience. It is only the conscience, the voice of the heart that enables us to navigate life. All the rest is simply opinion or what you call illusion. I remember telling someone “these things end in tears”… I was right.
I do not discount anything, You can ponder all you like on any given subject, But because it is the pondering of that subject/subject’s you are still limited.
If you reply and say you can ponder on all knowlegde at once you would just be agreeing with what I said in the first place.
I apologize for referencing the word tzu without explaining. Tzu means the making sense of the world as described in words. The world as words or numbers, and of mind. Additionally there is another word that belongs with it. Li. Li refers to the natural order or pattern of Reality, and is referenced with the image of perhaps the grain patterns in wood or the markings in a piece of jade. The two words together make clear the distinction of that which is the ordering of the universe in mind, and the patterns of Reality behind mind.
The mistake of illusion and the genuine heart. Well, that is a blanket explanation for everything, isn’t it? I’m afraid that I don’t see a ‘genuine heart’ in anyone - myself most of all. First, one would have to assume that the heart isn’t susceptable to mistake, that it always knows the difference between that which is real and that which is maya. Perhaps this is true if one is capable of divorcing heart from mind. I see no evidence that anyone is capable of such a thing. Listening to one’s conscience? I see no separation of heart/mind in what we would call conscience. I can certainly accept that we learn from our mistakes, and that we find greater understanding and greater sensitivity to all the variables possible in a given experience.
To the extent that we hold the perspective of li close, then heart/mind finds balance and accord, but that perspective is not of words,and the sharing of that is only in silence…
If I cannot see your genuine heart, it is because I myself am not acting out of my genuine heart. We are only really capable of witnessing in others what we experience in ourselves. We are all one afterall. We are all connected. I may observe another human being acting out of his true heart because I myself connect with that within myself.
Our conscience has nothing to do with separation. Our conscience is the voice of our true heart. Not of our emotional heart. The emotional heart is part of the mind. It is the mind that suffers illusion. The true heart is spiritual in nature and is of God. If it is of God, then it is more than capable of knowing all things.
I know what Li is. As far as I understand it, Li is what we align with when we align wth the universe. It is the principle. We practice Li in order to guide us back to what we have forgotten because we think we know it all. In our minds that is. Of course if we are acting out of our mind (opinions) then we would never be able to witness our true heart.
