If there were molecules, or a ‘bubbling something’ as they call it, obviously corpororeal time did exist before the big bang, so it still leaves the question of, ‘what created the bubbling something or two molecules’ or were they always around?
That has to be incorrect, because if we say time is the measurement of change than it would also HAVE to be before the BB as well, because the bb had to be in a state of changing in order to even happen, things could not have just been ‘frozen’ in place and never changing before that happened. It is just illogical to say so.
i sincerely doubt the truth will ever be found on this mud ball planet. The answers are where we cannot reach right now. We can only have educated guesses.
The human mind cannot readily accept concepts of effects without causes or time. Since this is a religious forum, why can’t one say that a god, who is timeless and without cause is the prime mover? Einstein said that he did not doubt the existence of God, but just wanted to know how God did it. Isn’t that all we aspire to know–how it was done, whether or not we believe in a god?
duplicate
How can something come from nothing? There had to be more than a few seconds before - the buildup.
idunno–it’s what they say. But I don’t have much of a problem conceptualizing it.
That’s if we say time is the measure of change. But what about change through space? If you take the landscape of North America from the Arctic Circle to the Southern boarder of Mexico, you go from ice & snow, to plains, to desert, to jungle. That kind of change happens through space, not time. So I don’t think time is the only measure of change.
Time is not linear. This is not my area of expertise, but I think if you consulted a cosmologist, they would say that time blends into space as you go further back in time. You could conceivably have the nugget that was the universe in its compacted form, plus the explosion, plus the debris expanding out into space, all at the same “time” (like having plains, deserts, and jungle all at the same time).
I don’t think anything “caused” it. I think there is an atemperal “basis” for time and the BB, but that’s not a cause in the traditional “mechanical” sense. It’s like the BB represents the “origin” of a static geometrical structure, or a radial coordinate system. As you go further out from this origin, you travel along what we humans experience as time, but outside this experience, it’s all a static structure.
For us humans, trapped in time, it’s still a question of whether God did it or something came from nothing.
There is no OR there for me. Where did your God come from, Ierrellus?
How it does boggle my mind sometimes to the point that it gives me a headache - trying to figure it out.
How are we “trapped” in time?
I’ll lean on the side of God did it, but for me, that’s neither a cause nor an individuated being. It is the atemporal foundation of the universe.
An entity couldn’t have done it, it’s just not logical.
i’ll show you a buildup, arcturus, and it will last longer than 2 seconds.
Lol.
Hey Trix, remember when you were playing God here on ILP? Are you still dawning that persona? Why don’t you tell us how the universe began?
It seems that, with the chicken and the egg [as with everything else], you have to go all the way back to the big bang. Then you might ask, “what came first, the cause or the effect?”
After all, many argue that before the big bang there was nothing at all. Which would seem to suggest there was nothing there to cause anything. It was just – presto! – “there”.
Whatever that might possibly mean.
Though I suspect that we will all go to the grave non the wiser. Well, not counting James S. Saint [among others] of course. 
but the riddle is the answer to the question.
What is spiritual logic to you, AiR?
Spiritual logic No. 1
Spiritual logic starts with a simple question of belief that we need to ask: Who am I? Am I this body that will die?
No, of course not. I am not this body.
Spiritual logic No. 2
If I am not this body, then who am I?
I am the divine spirit, the soul, the atman.
Spiritual logic No. 3
The soul in me is a God particle. So is the soul in you, and so is the soul in everyone.
Spiritual logic No. 4
Are there so many billions of souls?
No, just as when the sun reflecting in a thousand water buckets appears as a thousand suns, even though it’s one; in the same way, the billions of souls that appear as billions, are actually one - one universal power, one God that appears, one God that is manifested - born at birth and ending with death.
Spiritual logic No. 5
Contemplating spiritual logic will enable one to realise the truth.
So, the final answer is that spiritual logic leads to the realisation of truth.
AiR
The choice is still between a god did it and something came from nothing.
Which is the same in both cases.
Ok, so you’ve got a philosophy. I wouldn’t call that logic per se, just a set of axioms, but that’s just me. Incidentally, I hold a theory of spirit very close to this one. Yes, we are all part of one divine spirite–call it God–and each of us is a different part of that God.
Huh?