I’m just going to say this to trumpers outright

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To believe that Justice is merely a human construct: that is sad, naive, nihilistic, pseudo-intellectual, and a dead end as far as conversation goes. I laid out arguments concerning the development of very specific political structures in order to couch my greater argument on the worth of the Individual as a legal category and the actual meaning of that word, Justice, as being intimately tied to a related concept, ie. responsibility, for which only an Individual can be tasked with accounting for legally: and you didn’t get it. Your continued attempt to divert this conversation to the unrelated subject of cultural individualism and hyper-individualism, as well as your last post, evinces nothing but that.

The US bleeds itself of resources, of capital, and of money, in funding the militarizes of foreign countries in that decaying European hodgepodge of pseudo-states happily leaving the formation of their own laws to un-elected bureaucrats whose names they don’t even know. This is done for their and the world’s benefit. You see, the implication of a deep state is that there are multiple compartmentalized pseudo-governments tacitly functioning as one: some of these are “bad”", and some are not. Again: avoid reductionist claims. I am tired of hearing about rape and pillage. Are you talking about the Indians and Chinese throwing themselves off the roof after putting 500 thousand Iphones together? Yeah, talk to someone besides just the “Us” if you want more input on that.

“Yes, there are many ways, but we are talking about the current one…not a theoretical one.”

The alternative ways I implicated are as current as the ideology route.

" There is no individual human, with no human species, and no human race, and no sexual identity."

We’re done. I cannot converse meaningfully with a person who has rejected the basic foundation of everything we call law, ethics, morality, politics. The foundation even of just basic language apparently. I again simplified my argument to a whopping two sentences and you still don’t get it, your only response was to reject the idea that an individual exists. You have left philosophy and gone down a lunatic path for which I lack the necessary quantities of meds to follow you down. I seriously implore you to go back to the soul of Hellas and trace the evolution of the idea of the individual through the magnificent PROSE (oh no it’s so scary, prose; reading; the precision and care of laying out an idea in lexemes) of Plato; the timeless meditations of Augustine on the Self; Hofstadter’s use of the “strange loop” to formulate the dure of self-reflection, etc.

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And why are you reciting that stupid dictum that you hear Social Studies teachers tell students in High School: communism was a great theory, but in practice it fails. I heard that all the time when I was like 14, sitting in class. No… no it wasn’t. It was a monstrous theory that completely de-legitimized the category of the Individual- the Jewel of Western Thought; much as you are attempting (and failing) to do- and it failed in praxis because it failed in theory. Because by instituting systems of law that elevated the Group over the Individual, a level of corruption was enabled that far eclipses anything the US has done, and which also didn’t actually work politically because it denied reality. The dialectical-historical materialism on which all Marxist thought was based, which is where the devaluation of the individual comes from and the thesis is pushed forward that there is no individual but only a programmable robot controlled by nature and modulated by material conditions outside of himself, is an inaccurate vision of reality. (If you subscribe to this, as you seem to, however consciously or not- because I doubt you ever read any of that material and probably absorbed it like many others through osmosis as it is a quite hefty tome, the Marxist canon-- then truly: sad, naive, misguided, zero-summed are the only words I can think of to describe your perspective, which I receive as treasonous not to any state but to Reason itself.) Sorry, I committed the sin of using a word with a rich intellectual history that facilitates dialogue by saying praxis. PRACTICE. Happy?

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I see that I am dealing with a naïve dolt.
There is no ‘justice’ outside human systems, and human minds. It is usually associated with ‘equality’ of outcomes, associated with access to resources.
It is an ideal, like so many other human ideals, that fails to be applied, other than on a superficial level, to confuse imbeciles, and pseudo-intellectual morons.

Justice, in the US is purchased, and that you live in books and in your head, makes the realization of how and why, like talking to a child about sex.

Democracy was a compromises, brought about by the pressures created by Timocracy. Other than at the start, it never was practiced as it was written.
No Demos of the well-informed and well-educated, interested, hoplite exists in the US.
It is a plutocracy, spreading tis brand of cultural nihilism as a Global solution to human strife and suffering.

How the masses of morons, in America, are exploited and manipulated, is obvious. Only a naïve imbecile would fail to see.
That you believe the US is a benevolent entity, only exposes what you truly are.
Ideology is not reality.
You cannot learn about life and existence from books. Books only offer another’s insight on life, which you need to cross reference and apply, not simply regurgitate like a stupid parrot.
You are evidence that nihilism is about a defensive immersion of the mind in itself, and in a community of the like-minded…completely evading an indifferent world, that cares not about ‘justice’ and ‘kindness’ and ‘fairness’.

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Parodites, “Aeagean” is an old woman who dragged herself from a dying nazi forum in order to kill this one. Don’t expect any attempts on her part to understand you. She knows her cognitive limits and attempts to show them off, as nazis do, as virtues.

Good posts, bad thread to post them in. But this forum in general should not be expected to produce much counterplay.

To lift out one part I very much appreciate:

“I consider the EU to be a kind of Crypto-German empire with a line of descent tracing all the way back to the Nazi high command and the plans formalized amidst the death wails of the Reich, centered around mobilizing the plundered wealth accumulated by the Germans during their various occupations in the form of shell companies set up all around the world, as a kind of safe-keeping so that it could be re-imported at a later date. That last part of the plan was eventually modified and what we call the EU appeared, fulfilling the ambition of a unified Europe without any need for military conquest-as it failed twice for the Germans, namely by re-positioning Germany as a kind of harmless mercantile state in happy allegiance with its neighbors. Yes, happy allegiance, as it barks out orders at them from Brussels, from out of the mouths of soulless bureaucrats who nobody voted for.”

Well said man.

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"Nazi’ bait.
I’m dealing with a sophisticated imbecile, here.
It all comes down to nazis.

Spartans…were they ‘nazi’ in their demeanour and practices and world-view?

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“There is no ‘justice’ outside human systems, and human minds. It is usually associated with ‘equality’ of outcomes,”

Yeah, just stop. It’s associated with the fact that an individual person who commits a crime can be called to account for his actions, whereas a group cannot. This is the third fucking time I’ve had to say it because you keep ignoring it because you have no response to it. Why can’t a group? If I am in a group of 10,000 people and one guy commits an egregious offense, it would not be logical to hold that entire group responsible and ask everyone to step forward and explain it. They had nothing to do with it, and there is nothing to explain. So to be really sure you get it this time, that is justice. It isn’t a social construct, it is a reality.

I am sad to live in a world where people can un-ironically impute or even deny the existence of these immortal jewels, for which innumerable men have fought and died, like Justice, like the worth of the Individual, without any rational argumentation, and be happy calling others naive for thinking otherwise. Life isn’t in books? Yeah: that’s where life is, in the blood that we spent as a race attempting to indemnify these values against cultural Marxists like you. You want to lower this thread to this nonsense, I"ll play along.

Ooh the old dumb American masses spiel and their cultural nihilism and uh, imperialism, and yeah! That means something in 2020 right, guys? Seriously, go readjust your brain… You sound like a 16 year old man, grow up. I am sorry that you are incapable of reading, understanding, or taking yourself seriously enough to put in some work as far as the realm of debate goes. You’re telling me life isn’t in books like you just achieved some profound revelation; it’s a trope, man. Even fucking thing you said is a trope, straight out of the rebellious preteen pseudointellectual handbook. It’s a stupid thing to say because it’s a truism that everyone knows and nobody ever argued against. I am sorry you are insecure and I make you feel threatened, genuinely. But believe me, we can poll this entire forum and ask who won this exchange and: it isn’t you. You haven’t said anything. You advance ideas you’ve absorbed osmotically from who knows where which you don’t even know the history of. Your whole “the individual doesn’t exist thing” (and I am calling it a thing because you haven’t really articulated it in any way) is straight out of Marx, it’s called dialectical historical materialism.

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It is a manmade ‘reality’.
There is no justice outside manmade systems, and even within them the idea of it is based on a false evaluation of how each appreciates.
If you’ve got the money you can escape or adjust justice in your favour.
Furthermore, a man may value freedom less than he values his life, making justice a matter of communal decree.

It is a social construct because it does not exist anywhere but within human social systems as an idea. Like equality, imbecilic. There is no equality in reality - it is a human concept. if it existed, ni reality, survival of the fittest would cease.
There is no ‘justice’ in nature. No judge, no jury…no fairness.
Reality does not work on justice, naïve moron. It doesn’t even work in human systems, except as a façade.

I am saddened by the existence of naïve idealists.
I’ve been playing along, from the start.

A naïve man, I presume, who still believes in benevolent entities who are bringing goodness to the world, is disheartening.
Like listening to a child explain how Santa Claus exists.
You vote in the US?
That’s why it’s fucked up.

You still believe in human justice? How about universal love?
Ha!!!
I will assume that ‘will to power’ means ‘will to universal justice’.
Are you this naïve?
If you want to be declared a winner, little boy, just say so. I’ll do it for you.
Listen to me, imbecile…among the children the clown wins. You are the funniest clown ever.
No, wait…the third finniest.

By the way…I’m a Nazi…not a Marxist.
Get your evil entities straight.

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The irony here is that this same imbecile will probably claim that race and sex are social constructs.

I ask, if justice is not a social construct then…
Is there justice in nature - outside human environments?
If so, who is judge and jury?
What standard is used to evaluate what is fair and just?

This is truly fucked up. He thinks all that pseudo-intellectual babbling can trick me into believing that the US is the binger of cosmic justice to mankind.
This is messianic to the bone.
This naïve mind thinks the US is benevolent and truly concerned with spreading freedom and justice to all…like Jesus.
He thinks a vote on which side is most popular can decide it…this is how naïve it is. A vote!!!
Can you believe this shit?

Of course his romantic idealism will be popular…as every superstition in history has been.
Philosophy is not about being popular or appealing ro kind.
If someone has cracked the justice issue then please quote…and then show me when and where ti has been applied.
Go back to Aristotle.

Justice, like love, is a myth propagated to appease the individual within the dominion of the collective.
Even Brian knows this shit, and he’s partly retarded.
Did Epstein get justice? Did OJ?
What poor man receives justice?
You fuckin commie.
There is no parity. With no parity, of body or mind, there can never be justice, other than a social construct meant to preserve peace.
One man’s dirt is another man’s jewels.
This moron reduces justice to economics. How not-Marxist of you.

If a man hath one g-string and his neighbour hath none, then is it not just for him to split it in two - one string for each?
But what if one man wanted to go naked, ro to wear a hijab, would ti be just, in his mind, if he were given a strong to cover his genitals and anus?

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Yes, liberty, individuality, the intellect, especially dignity - all these noble things are insults to the nazi. Selfloatthing is the only quality these quasi-beings possess, but it rather possesses them, of course.

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Were the Spartans and the Athenians, which you pretend to admire, nazi-like or not?
Give those 160 IQ points a spin.
You walked in Sparta, with your circumcised penis, pretending to be in communion with the gods.
Tell me.
Would they not be called ‘Nazis’, by you, if they existed today?

Try prose…you know appearances of depth when vacant of mind.

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I need you to understand that this idea you have about the individual being a social construct, besides not jiving well with neuroscience, has an origin and a foundation, without which it is just vacuous pseudo philosophy. The epistemology that enables this claim to exist and to make sense is: dialectical-historical materialism, which I have spent a great deal of time rebutting. It took several hundred pages of text to do so and I highly doubt you are interested for that reason- and others. But when you ask, derp is there justice in Nature? Then blah blah blah. Hegel developed his absolute dialectic and used it to concoct a vision pf the Logos as circularly inscribing the structure of reality itself within its own vitiosus, so he would say that Justice is an implicate datum in the order of Nature. The inversion of this (historical materialism) is as rabid as its subject of refutation- and I know that you don’t know the ideas you are sharing are manifestations of that inverted dialectic, but they are.

“How the masses of morons, in America, are exploited and manipulated, is obvious. Only a naïve imbecile would fail to see.
That you believe the US is a benevolent entity, only exposes what you truly are.”

I have tired to be polite with you, but do you even know what you’re talking about? Read the things I have written, man. I know reading is a lost art and nobody knows how to anymore but surely you’ve got better than this? In what parallel universe did I suggest I didn’t think the populace was being manipulated- in fact, I wrote a great deal here to the opposite effect. And as for appraising the state highly; (I’m an anti-Statist, buddy.) again, this is more reductionism, which I am convinced is instinctual to you and can’t be helped. The government of the US is a multilayered Babel Tower of groups, some of which actively fight with others, and all of which have their own distinct vision of things. I can approve of the activities of one without approving of the activities of others and falling into blanket approval of the US government. Honestly ‘naive’ should be struck from your vocabulary.

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Did I say the 'individual" was a social construct, hypocrite?
I did not even bother reading the rest…I stopped at the strawman…you coward.

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Hypocrite…I repeat.
Justice, the concept, is a social construct…unless you want to provide evidence of nature being just.

Hypocrite,you are naïve and deluded, and this is why you follow the moron that you follow.

Is there justice in Evolution…in a child getting cancer…in a lamb being eaten by wolves.
Show me universal justice, half-wit, Marxist self-deluded imbecile.
They shower you with praise to have you tag along, and, admittedly, you’ve learned the pseudo-intellectual spiel.
But I’m not like those morons.

Applications, pragmatism….show me. Don’t tell me.
Show me justice.
Show me justice outside human societies.

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Buddy, you said there was no such thing as an individual or even the human species or sexual identity. Aegean…

Who do I follow? I wrote 10 books man, I don’t follow anyone. What are you talking about?

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You are an imbecile.
Individual is central to my main thesis, moron.
Ask iambiguous.

I never, ever denied race, or sex, or individuals.
I denied the romantic idealism of ‘love’ and ‘justice’, as it is presently defined and understood.

Now, show me justice outside human societies, if it is not a social construct.

You have to read carefully…I am the opposite of what you think.
I am neither a Marxist nor do I deny race, or sex as being relevant to the identity of an individual.

You are controlled by your passions, which is partly to explain your obsession with social justice.

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You never denied the individual? Aegean. You said there was “no individual, no such thing as a human race, and no sexual identity.” Are you actually mentally ill?

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I just spent pages detailing my aversion to the very Marxist-based dialectical historical materialism that you unconsciously employ, but I am the Marxist? Aegean… Marxists don’t believe in abstractions… They make the same claims about Justice that you do. But you are calling me the Marxist. I honestly think you need help at this point. I am sorry for whatever you’re going through.

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I was being facetious.
There are species, a race - sub-species - and sexual roles, defined as masculine and feminine - each category degerming the potentials of mind/body of every individual.

Romantic ideologies that use ‘love’, ‘value’, ‘justice’ or whatever other triggering sword, are ideological, and only exist within human minds.
Many absurdities are taken literally.

I can give you an explanation of how ‘love’ has been detached from reality and converted to an ideology…but neverminded.

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Marxism is an outcrop of Abrahamic nihilism.
It is all anti-life, anti-humanity…proposing idealized versions of humanity.
All word-based mind-games…like value ontology.

Ha!!!

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You weren’t be facetious Aegean. And by the way, who is it that I follow? Why are you calling me a Marxist after I spent pages elaborating on my aversion to the basic premise of Marxism? (which you are espousing)

“There is no individual human, with no human species, and no human race, and no sexual identity.
There is no ideal abstract individual.”

Marxism is an atheistic ideology that rejects not only god but the primacy of the individual, yet it is a form of Abrahamic nihilism?

Aegean: every post you make contradicts every other post. You are either mentally ill or a troll, and in either case I think the mods of this website need to address you.