Quote me, quote me as saying assertions can’t be argued against. It never happened.
You said that you weren’t making an argument, therefor i couldn’t argue against it… you said you weren’t contradicting yourself, because the first statement was merely an assertion. Everytime I tried to argue against it you kept laughing at me, everyone in the thread did, saying it was an assertion and not an argument. Geez… 50 pages… I’ll try to find it.
No, I didn’t. That entire conversation was characterized by you flat out lying about what other people said and arguing against the words you put in their mouths. Now quote me or take it back.
Well… I know that’s not true… I’m going into the thread right now. I remember once using semiotics to rephrase you in that thread.
Read it and weep Uccisore, I didn’t even go back further… this says it all, my post and your follow up post, the one you used for the rest of the thread to say i ceded the argument.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=187659&p=2529757&hilit=assertion+argument+james#p2529757
So where’s the quote of me saying assertions can’t be argued against?
I’ll try to find another one, but actually that is one. Now I have to dig deeper into the the thread… sigh
I’ll use James’ assessment for a moment and dig even deeper if you want it from your own words…
James wrote: But my assessment (not “judgment” - not condemning) concerning this emmm… “debate” as relayed in PM is that Ucci made a claim concerning deductive arguments. He then made a claim about that claim in stating that the first claim was not itself a deductive argument, but rather merely an assertion (in this thread a “theorem”). He didn’t provide argument concerning why he believed the first claim, thus he did not contradict himself when he merely stated his second claim about the first. Neither claim was a deductive argument.
Well, if it’s not my own words it’s not a fucking quote of me, now is it?
I never said assertions can’t be argued against, nor would I, because that’s stupid. Just because you refuse to read what other people write doesn’t mean you get to make it up and lie about it later. I’ll not bog this thread down with any more replies until you find this quote that doesn’t exist.
Actually uccisore, viewtopic.php?f=2&t=187659&p=2529757&hilit=assertion+argument+james#p2529757
You never corrected me. So actually you did make that argument in your very next post. But I’ll try to find another one. Shit it didn’t hyperlink. I’ll try again
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=187659&p=2529757&hilit=assertion+argument+james#p2529757
Uccisore!!! It gets even BETTER for the three posts after that!!! You clearly admit that assertions cannot be defeated in debate, without once trying to correct me!!! You got caught!!!
So what does “tard” Ecmandu do? He shows that assertions are debates (arguments presented from the counter view of the assertion). Pretty logical of me eh?
Read those next three posts from that last link Uccisore… plain as day that you admitted that assertions cannot be debated or argued, you even used it to declare victory in the debate!!! THAT WAS HOW YOU DECLARED VICTORY IN THE DEBATE!!! Take it back? It’s right there in print. I don’t have to take shit back.
Then post the quote, liar. Look, it’s obvious you know how to embed quotes, so do it. Why are you playing games?
I just did… I’ll even quote it here…
Ecmandu wrote: You have no position if you’re not presenting an argument, it’s by definition, irrefutable. If you and James are going to make the distinction between assertions and arguments and say that assertions cannot be disproven because they don’t make claims, there’s not much I can do is there Uccisore… which is why I said it’s a slimy way to “win” a debate.
Uccisore replied: Good. So now that we’ve resolved that day-long distraction where you thought I contradicted myself and I didn’t, it’s time for you to present your coherent and certain defeat of my position. (confident that his position couldn’t be defeated, and NOT CORRECTING ME WHEN HE ACCEPTED THIS WIN!!! Which is an admission “assertions cannot be disproven because they don’t make claims”. You admitted it Uccisore!!! James came in later and said that there was more to it… but not you, you RAN WITH IT, and used it for THE REST OF THE THREAD THAT I CEDED THE DEBATE!!! It’s clear as the printed word, someone can read that entire thread and see what happened afterwards as well.
There’s nothing in there even kind of sort of resembling me saying that assertions can’t be argued against, not even close. IThere’s YOU saying it, which is once again, an example of you twisting me and James’ words around (because we didn’t say it in that thread either), and me refusing to acknowledge your stupid bullshit because it was a huge side track.
Here’s an important thing to get through your skull: When somebody doesn’t take the time to explain to you why you’re wrong, it doesn’t mean they agree with you. Of course assertions can be argued against.
So once again, you lied. You made something up that I never said.
Hrmm… how can this not turn to rant…
Ecmandu wrote: “You have no position if you’re not presenting an argument, it’s by definition, irrefutable. If you and James are going to make the distinction between assertions and arguments and say that assertions cannot be disproven because they don’t make claims, there’s not much I can do is there Uccisore… which is why I said it’s a slimy way to “win” a debate.”
Uccisore replied: “Good. So now that we’ve resolved that day-long distraction where you thought I contradicted myself and I didn’t, it’s time for you to present your coherent and certain defeat of my position.”
It’s plain as day that you accepted all of my last post. In fact you used this defining moment in the thread to declare me ceding the debate, and in fact spent the rest of the thread saying (from this passage in the thread), I ceded it and nobody gives a shit about you anymore. Not anyone who participated in that thread, including you. And you want ME to take it back?
What’s plain as day is that I said
“Good. So now that we’ve resolved that day-long distraction where you thought I contradicted myself and I didn’t, it’s time for you to present your coherent and certain defeat of my position.”
Repeatedly, in order to get you to stop with your stupid sidetracks and get back to the actual matter at hand. It’sobviously not an endorsement of what you said, that’s immediately apparent to anybody reading it. I think even you know this, which makes you a liar.
I never said assertions can’t be argued against, nor would I. You said I did. You tried to find a quote of me saying it and couldn’t. It’s not something I believe or would ever advocate. The only person who ever said it was YOU, and when you said it, it was YOU trying to stick those words in our mouths then just like you’re trying to do now. That’s what’s plain as day.
Uccisore, you’re grasping at straws here… you endorsed my entire post. I’m not reading the whole thread again, but I remember you saying that your argument couldn’t be refuted because you were making assertions on a couple occasions, if we really need to get down to it (and your endorsement of my entire post proves you didn’t have a problem with these sentences) then I guess I can go through and really dig through those 50 pages. sigh
Neither of us made that claim.
What I said was that his assertion was not in itself a deductive argument, and thus his following statements concerning deductive arguments did not apply to his assertion. In that regard, he did not contradict himself. No one said anything about ALL assertions being or not being arguments other than you. You have claimed that ALL assertions and even ALL words are “arguments”.
Of course I didn't. I would never claim that assertions can't be argued against, that's retarded, and you have no quote of anybody but YOU saying that. You claimed I said it, and the best you have is a post where I don't bother to correct YOU when YOU said it.
Why don't I bother to correct all the stupid things you say? Who has the time!
No, my argument couldn’t be shown to be circular because wasn’t deductive is what I said, but we’re not going through this again. Let James deal with you.