I think the uncertainty principle and Godels incompleteness thingy suggests that a full description is impossible.
Or rather, it suggests that we can never know if what we have is the right description, complete or no.
X=X, or nothing has meaning. We decide, and most of us opt for the former.
Everything is a process( a series of actions). It (the universe) must reference to prior action for it’s continueity.
That’s bullshit, from where do you get these ideas? What do you mean by “Disproven” do you even understand the nature of context or time bound truth? i.e. because time flows, reality (truth) is a process, in constant flow, what we say about realtiy is merely a reflection of what is, i.e. a serious of things.
You’re missing the point we already have partial understanding - i.e. medicine, electricity, these computers, medicine, etc. We behave as if truth exists, therefore truth exists in some partial or whole form, period. It’s quite obvious you don’t understand the nature of what truth is, how it exists in time, etc.
Well when they come up with life extension technology, I’m sure you’ll be the first to opt out of that “non truth”.
We already have partial objectivity, ugh this is what you are not understanding, the simple act of you perceiving means something exists (i.e. a truth you can detect, navigate around, manipulate, etc), stuff, surfaces, etc.
Thank god too science would have never developed nor these wonderful “non truth based” computers who’s “non truth” theories they rely upon.
You’re missing the point, you don’t even know what you’re talking about “could be nothing more then illusions”, you are percieving. do you believe you are an illusion? We can find that out by finding out what you think about yourself.
Do you exist?
If you were an illusion, that means you must exist AS something illusionary, that HAS existence in some real, ultimate form, you can’t have "non-existent existing illusion.
Again that’s your assertion, knowledge is a function of time, maybe humans will, but the next evolution (machines, etC) you don’t know what kind of shit exists out there, you’re knowledge is very very limited, we’d the be bacteria of the universe to higher cognitive entitites. Your thoughts wouldn’t even qualify as thoughts, just the mere ramblings of amoeba.
I don’t really care, the only people making this world a better place are people who believe the truth exists and pushes us forward, medicine, electricity, technology, etc. Believe whatever you want but here’s a quote from winston churchill:
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.–Winston Churchill
tommor we could disciver that this reality is a complete farce generated by machines designed to keep our conciousness oblivious
that’s called the matrix, and i don;t think keeanu would appreciate you calling it bullshit.
partial truths aren;t necessarily true at all.
it’s partially true that putting certain plants on your skin is beneficial. but the full truth might be that it;s only beneficial because it keeps ticks and flies away.
Partial truth is called humans making the best of things. i see no certainty.
life extension technology?
i plan to die a relatively old man, but i plan to die tired. it is my goal to satisfy myself by induldging on everything i can.
the idea of living forever or for a very long time gives me chills.
Doyou think that living forever will give you the answers to life… or make you GOD? 
the only thing i know is that i know nothing.
computers compute what we tell them to, not the “truth about existence”
you only say that because you can only think in terms of a temporally based 3 d material world.
i think that my entire reality could be an an illusion. i don’t treat it as such for pragmatic reasons but the possibility remains that we could all be flutters of electricity in a chaotic universe we will never see let alone understand.
I don;t think you know what your;e talking about.
do you mean to say that the scientific hunt for “the meaning of life” or “the nature of existence” is ever going to yield final answers?
the only thing we get with that is more questions.
your closed minded view of this subject is rather offensive.
and then what if there is something bigger still to which machines are obsolete? where does it end? at GOD?
before i even read this quote lewt me reiterate a few things which you have just assumed.
I never said that asking questions wasn’t useful. i never said that scientists are stupid or that we should all admit to stupidity, curll up and die.
I don;t know where you got that idea but you seem to have been typing with angry pointed eyebrows. f.y.i that’s not a good thing to do.
My assertion is that humans will never be god. we will never be the masters of the universe and we will in all probability come to an ironic end brought about by our own foolishness.
like i said i didn’t say that you should stop asking questions. i don;t deny usefullness.
i think you should re-write your last post because it’s clear to me that you didn’t understand a word i said.
The problem you’re missing is your lack of understanding, a part of a truth, is a whole truth in and of itself, i.e. patterns within patterns, shapes within shapes. Nature is a fractal pattern.
The problem is there is one certainty already – you exist, every act of you navigating means you exist in some manner ultimately, even “illusions” exist, i.e. they are distortions of what is.
“a part of truth is a whole truth in and of itself”
Where do you get this assertion from?
How do you know what’s partly true?
You seem to have taken the most undeniable stance you can think of… “i think therefore i am”
Have you ever read descartes?
You say that somehow we must exist, so you claim to know a truth…
do you know the nature of our existence?
Are we truly concious and alive?
It only seems to be so from ou direct and limited perspective, so how do you know that we aren’t like little robotic tos just following the laws of physics?
Anything you experience is subject to be flawed. The human condition is such that we percieve very little of our external world and know even less about it.
We have no idea how the conciousness works… is thought an illusion? we honestly don’t know.
Can we even understand truth? we don;t know.
Is there an existence outside of a 3 d material world governed by time? we don’t know.
Any of thje truths you have come to know and accept you have accepted out fop something called pragmatism.
I am a pragmatist myself and i’m not saying that making these sorts of assumptions are bad (all the time we make countless pragmatic assumptions).
The problem is when you try to declare yourself an authority on truth you will get peo[ple like me who disagree just for teh sake of disagreeing.
i deny your version of truth.
P.S
Understanding a patern is not to “know truth”. The patterns we humans are able to visualise aren’t some great universal ultimate “things”…
A pattern is something observed by humans who don’t understand the reasons behind ANYTHING.
Sure we know that 1+1 = 2. But all that does is allow us to count things… so does counting things lead to truth?
If i were to ask you why there is twenty rocks in a certain spot would you be able to answer?
if i asked you what makes rocks come into existence would you use your partial truths to explain this?
It seems like saying fractal patterns are “true” in a universal sense is quite an arbitary and random thing to say.
I would compare that to me claiming that my name is Chris. Which is “true”.
So do i know the truth about anything knowing that my name is chris? Does my arbitrary observation about the world make me a truth knower?
Our entire perception. i.e sound, light, pressure, taste, these are all things that our coporeal forms react to and give our conciousness interpertations of that. How far can we trust perception? Rene descartes said that our perceptiopns are subject to flaws, and indeed they are.
So all we are really left with is the assumption that observations are somehow truths. That what we observe is somehow partially true, and a part of a greater truth, but since we know the partial truth we somehow get credit for the whole truth?
You call “partial truths” (observations) truths in and of themselves… might i remind you we’re talking about universally objective truths?.
The obvious observations which you call “truths in and of themselves” (your entire basis for refuting my attack on humans ability to understand their own existence) says nothing about our ability to understand our own reality or give any answer to the so called great questions…
The fact that we might agree on the existence of an apple does not answer any of the questions i posed earlier in this thread. fractal equations do not anwer any of the questions i posed earlier in this thread.
Your objections to my attak don’t answer any of my questions or adress my point that an understanding of reality doesn’t come with just observing things.
Sorry dude but science can’t tell us the meaning of life. When you get that age defying technology you can spend 1000 years observing everything and then come to my grave and gloat if you end up understanding the universe.
In closing, the everyday truths that we take for grantid (observations) Don’t say anything about the universe. Sure we percieve its existence but we don;t understand it. What makes a lamp exist? what binds reality together? The universe is apparantly infinite. this infinite nature gives rise to infinite possibilities. these infinite possibilities give rise to uncertainty.
You think you understand the universe because you recorded the X Y Z position fo a lamp?
Why is it a problem? Why not simply affirm it?
Or does it not loop back? Everyone yearns for the light. The pure white light. What if the universe is infinite. We agree that there can not be a perpetual motion machine and life is a machine. We’re in the gravest danger now of an atmospheric holocaust. Ecological damage will destroy breathable air within the next ten to forty years.
This will be the result:
It’s speculation and vain hope to believe in a cosmic rebirth in a future Big Bang. The holocaust of the atmosphere will drive any remaining humans into space and under the earth. Evolution does not respect intelligence; it evolves towards intelligence and away from intelligence.
Ugh you don’t understand… refrain from replying until you understand.
Because everything is connected, you’re under the mistaken idea that there are such things as “objects” and “seperateness” ultimately. There is only one surface of reality, therefore if you have part of the truth, you already have a piece of the whole (i…e truth within truth), you can’t escape it. we’re just bubbles in the surface of reality.
Imagine you’re in a big smeary mist of light, and your eyes allow you to focus only on a small element of that smear to make it clear, that’s what’s actually happening in reality. i.e. the truth is everywhere we are just too dumb to see it.
Am I? How do you know?
Is that true? Are you certain?
uh yep, pretty much.
That’s why existentialism is always going to be a popular philosophical category.
no, so that’s why saying i know nothing is the only way to be certain that i do not overstate my knowledge.
It’s possible that i know some truth, but even if it bit me in teh face i wouldn’t know it was “a great truth”, but it’s al;so possible that i don;t know any truths at all, so in the interest of safety, je sais rien
Physics, science, that’s how I know, you don’t understand enough how the world operates. Not only that the whole of causation/existence depends on the fact that anything that exists, is derived… i…e you were derived from pre-existing matter and energy, can you name one thing that wasn’t derived from pre-existing stuff?
Sorry wonderer, here’s a simple test of how we have and know truth:
We navigate, the fact we are able to navigate around things and not fall off cliffs is proof positive we have part of the truth.
or we just learned to interpret the map upside down and inside out…
i’m not saying that knowing how to read a map isn’t useful… it’s just not an explanation of existence or reality
sure it’s a useful bit of data, but bits of data don’t make a crumb cake. we can never understand everything in a context outside of our own realm of knowlege, which is destined to be incomplete.
I never said that the shit ain’t useful, just that it doesn’t provide answers to life.