Again, with the childish ad hominem attacks from a sensitve religious person. Senstive aren’t you. Now, now, run along back to the classroom where the professors have to politely listen to you rubbish, and let the grown-up talk.
If the kitchen is too hot, get out The mods have not banned me, but I imagine they might you for your profanity. Ben are you listening.
That right, I will not tell you and risk being targeted by some religious fanatic.
What on earth are you talking about my name is not even associated with this site?
I hold three k-12 teaching credentials, and often pick up change for Christmas when off work. This includes all levels, and is a common practice. Many high school instructors also teach adjunct at the community college level. Our department’s recently retired Dean taught high school and adjunct for nine years before he was hired at the college level. Many professors work two jobs, teach during the day, then in an adult school or private educational institutions like Sylvan in the evenings to help pay for their children’t college tuition. Often professors substitute while on “vacation.”
Do not respond oh insecure one, if you do not want a responce.
This is not a playground. In order to produce high quality philosophical discussions we expect the posts to contain a good level of courtesy and respect. If something has angered you, walk away from the computer and come back when you have a clear head. It helps no-one to start throwing insults around the place. This rule is two-fold: Do not use personal attacks to further your argument (argumentum ad hominem) and don’t use insults at all.
It appears that yes drugs are disallowed, but they can be used in certain circumstances such as surgery and pain meds. after an operation. Similar to what many other of the “faithful” do hashish is used in the lower eschelons of Egyptian society. Do not misunderstand, hypocrits appear in all religions and ethnic groups. Christians murder and judge, though they are not suppose to. All groups, regardless of group affiliations have liars and hypocrits.
Yes, they can be used for medical purposes. To make clear, if say someone is starving and the only food one had was a pig, it is permissible, Islam is more practical than many think. It is not so rigid as to come between basic human survival over a law insignificant in comparison. In fact, human preservation is an important law in Islam contrary to popular belief with its stark contrast, suicide bombing, which is also forbidden as an act, and broken into two acts forbidden. Suicide is forbidden, murder of innocents is forbidden.
Moving on:
Yes, I am a secularist, my only contention was that there are movements within the secularist group as a whole, that lack the respect for human dignity that say a religious group would. I am not a dogmatic secularist, who feels that the entire group can think no wrong, do no wrong, etc. Nevertheless, a secularist.
You are prejudiced. You demonstate this over and over. The quote above (again) substantiates my claim. Minds like yours are an obstacle to peace and understanding between the two, three or more sides. One who defends Islam suddenly has ties with religious fanatics, or is one? And there will be an attack on you…it is not healthy for the world to categorize people like you do. Leave that to the Christian fundamentalists, Muslim fundamentalists, they have it covered.
AVICENNA:
Aspacia:
Boo hoo. But in light of my post, my point is that I am not religious but find certian value in Islam worth defending. That was the issue.
Aspacia:
Aspacia:
Aspacia:
In context, you charged that I defend Muslim countries who commit atrocities, which is untrue, you pigeon hole me as a religious fanatic. I only made clear that I am not religious and not associated with one, nor defend human rights violators. I find your way of seeing one who defends Islam (as a religious fanatic and human rights violation supporter, and terrorist as you would have me by telling me you fear you will be attacked by a fanatic) very antagonistic to peace and understanding between peoples. Very brute and Fallwell-esque.
Aspacia:
Aspacia:
Aspacia:
Aspacia:
Aspacia:
Aspacia:
Aspacia:
Hmm.
AVICENNA:
Aspacia:
I have studied Islam, therefore, you infer I am religious, despite my clarifying over and over what I am-not religious. Besides, this was my most recent post, you’ve been categorizing me as a “deeply religious Muslim,” far before I let you in on my past with Islam. Ok. Are you not pigeon hole-ing? Are you not painting one who defends Islam in a way that you would like? Yes you are. Stop.
Gimme a break, “if the kitchen is too hot…” you really take yourself too seriously. “Ben are you listening,” shame on you Aspacia. Ban me for profanity…well “monkeys ass” as you posted I suspect does not qualify as profanity, “shit” does qualify according to you. I have no doubts that you would want me banned, I am the only person who spends a decent amount of time (or at least more than anyone else) defending Islam. Me banned, you would be able to spew your inaccurate and often ungrounded, irrelevant, posts on Islam free from debate.
You are not a scholar, you are not a Ph.d, you are not pursuing a Ph.d in anything, and the way you transmit your “knowledge” exhibits you are not at the level of any of the above. More, you debate in a way that in inconducive to the objective of the debate. I am not the first member to say this. You post unrelated charges and just state how Islam is so terrible, etc. You have not cited one book! That is a sign in itself. You’re a google philosopher. I don’t think one need a Doctorate to be an expert or scholar, necessarily. Many of the greatest minds were not institutional philosophers, etc. And let me make clear what I have made clear before, I am not a scholar. You would various times claim intellectual superiority over me regarding the topic we’ve been discussing: Islam. How you formulate your knowledge of Islam is greater than mine… I do not know. What I do know is that you bash Islam on any thread you can, with the same old posts on the same old things, irrespective to the topic of the thread (I am not the only member to point this out) I am the only person here who will not allow you to get over your sometimes senseless babble on Islam which is clearly rooted in some emotional aggression toward the religion. You claimed to be a zionist–Israel belongs to the Jewish people because God said so, Jews are the chosen (“favoured” is the translation in various texts) by God…–and in the meantime bashed religions and dogma in them. But are nonetheless a zionist. I have nothing ill to say of zionism here, but I just thought it would be valuable to point out the position from which you raise your objections to Islam. I am afraid your objections are not rooted in a real contention with Islam itself, per se. Your politics are a clear motivator, at least in part. I thought it would be important to make this clear for all.
My apologies to the author of this thread, thirst4metal for participating in the deterioration of this very important, and well intended thread.
You are hilarious. I am iritated by lack of coherency and google researchers, not opponents of Islam.
You would deem me a fanatic, any closed minded zionist would want to paint any defender of Islam as such. Cheap.
Thirst4metal also called you pathetic, identified your posts as largely irrelevant, poorly argued and said he was “baffled by your reasoning” as well. This is just a few posts ago. Thus, I am not the only who has made (as you would call them) “ad hominem attacks.” They’re not so much attacks Aspacia, more like a friendly offer of reality
But I asked you twice which Islamic scholars (living humans) you’ve corresponded with, to which you replied with websites. You’re a google philosopher.
It’s amazing how you formulate these probabilities with little to no tangible variables. You’re truly pathetic…
I studied Islam. You conclue I am “deeply religious,” “attend services” and “are a fanatic.” You are a pathetic old lady
Thirst4metal studied Christianity in Ministry school, he is full fledged atheist. But in your logic, this is an impossibility, or actually, maybe just for us fanatic Muslims who might attack you as you said. Pathetic old lady…lock your doors!
No, YOU trigger many negative reactions. It’s your demeanor, your attitude, and your idiocy you deem knowledge. I mean you have concluded from 6 or so posts on this site where I made no allusion to any political, extreme views, that I am a “fanatic” am “deeply religious” and somehow formulate "10 to 1 that I attend services. Pathetic old bird…
Well I have a conclusion regarding you: YOU ARE A PROPAGANDIST. I have data though, we’ve engaged in debate before on hadith, I was on as “Avicenna-Ilm al Kalam,” and I responded to some your hadiths-by narrators I’ve never heard of and no significant school of Islam subscribes to-in detail. Then you make the same statement above to help substantiate your anti-Islam cause. Pathetic old propagandist
Who?? You’re full of it. So which Ph.D’s are you referring to? Oh, I forgot, you cant say because I am a religious fanatic with terrorist ties as you charged and I will track you down right? Just a propagandist, pathetic old bird on the internet all day…google researcher
Never heard of this hadith, probably Wahhabi. But why don’t you ask one of your many scholar buddies who you hang out with all the time. If you really rub elbows with all types of scholars, Muslim scholars as you’ve claimed as well, why has your question gone unanswered. In any event, I gave you 2 great sources on Islam to pursue your questions a while ago
But still you make claims that no Muslim will answer your questions. You are a propagandist, part of the movement to paint Islam as a religion as a terrorist supporting fanatical movement. You are a war mongerer, a liar, and seek to mislead people on this site and elsewhere about Islam, attributing the Qur’an as a whole, and religion as a whole to a fringe movement. Shame on you for your intolerance peddling, false information leading to alienation. You are an opponent to understanding, peace and common grounds between similar peoples (Jews, Christians, and Islam). Come to think of it, I have never heard your “even handed criticism of all religions” directed toward Judaism or Jews. There are major acts of terrorism in the creation and history of Israel, your own PM was killed by a Jewish terrorist for his progressiveness in peace with Palestinians. Yitzhak Rabin was killed by a Jewish terrorist. But I am not a propagandist and will not attribute this to Judaism.
Yes. Why don’t you do a google on the real meaning of Jihad in Islam (since I know you won’t go to a library) Jihad is to stuggle, which comes in many forms. A struggle with oneself to be temperate, to free oneself from our earthly shackles. Another form is to defend oneself and fight injustice. America’s war against Hitler is considered a jihad. It was a just struggle in form of war, against injustice. You want to attribute jihad, per se, to terrorism. You are a propagandist. Fortunate that most people are not as lazy as you here and might actually research the true meaning of Jihad. You want to attribute what Muslims do to Islam. Should we attribute what Christians do to Chrsitianity? In Europe, many are Christians, among them, some commit adultery, does Christianity permit adultery? No. Among them, some Christians commit murder, theft, oppression, etc. Does Christianity preach these? No. But you want to do that to Islam. Propagandist.
Not at UCLA or USC, Harvard, Georgetown, etc… We still use books. I don’t know about the rest of you guys. But unfortunately you rely on the internet solely for your knowledge. You only cite websites. Scholars do not do this. I asked you to read Fall of the Angel by St. Anselm a while back with regards to a dual oriented being, in light of free will. You returned with some of his history, said he endorses the papacy, "do you want me to get started on Catholicism " you said, (with the emoticon). An example of your status as a google researcher, and your incoherency, lack of focus and raising irrelevant non issues to subjects on threads. So “books are becoming defunct.” You might be justified in saying so if you actually accessed books online rather than some random website with some random persons commentary. First you say I understand nothing and comprehend nothing on Islam, then say I’m a fanatic who is deeply religious and attend services and the only source of info. on Islam you’ve cited so far is a college Muslim Student Association website. Pathetic
How you come to this conclusion is beyond me…google researcher, training my ass
So speak to a scholar, you come on this informal website and claim you have refuted Islam. You will not pursue the two sources I’ve listed because you are a propagandist who wants people to believe Islam is an evil religion and the people are fanatics.
Here you go again, attacking me and not discussing the issues. I added IslamCity to my favorites and am perusing the site. Did you peruse the sites I provided? NO. You are too fearful and myopic. You claim the hadith quotes are invalid. They are not, you can find these exact quotes on the sites I provided. I read all the positions regarding politics and religions. That is, I read CAIR as well as anti-CAIR. I read Arutz Sheva, Haaretz, Al Jazeera, AMIN, and many other sources to find balance. Do you. I doubt it. I peruse BBC’s religion and ethics boards regarding Christianity, Judaism, Islam for insight into what the average faithful believe.
I have many links to valid religious sites on my favorites page when I have questions for scholars. That is I will use the IslamCity as well as others regarding Islam, and ask Moses for questions regarding Judaism.
I wrote an academic librarian regarding her claim regarding books becoming defunct in there present form, as they will probably be on line.
What are you so afraid of?
I am not afraid of admitting acknowledging many problems with not only my country, other countries, and issues of faith.
Yes, I am 52, and have a 26 year-old son, and a 56 year-old significant other. How on earth does this invalidate my claims?
I am also well read, politically, and physically active, and a popular instructor who has had numerous return students. I have had to ask the department chair to assign me to other courses to prevent the continual returning students as they need exposure to other instructors. .
You are an immature child. Your behavior resembles that of many children when they are caught misbehaving as well as many Middle-Eastern reporters rhetoric when questioned. One jerk, who claims to be well-educated, said “I will pray you come down with cancer” rather than answer my queries regarding faith and politics. Silly, silly man.
Well this is something I would never say, or wish. But I’ve encouraged you to take these up with scholars, and have given you sources that do not require you to leave the house (because you seem to only use the internet) because I am not a scholar. And if I am this immature, poorly educated, dumb child who knows nothing about Islam, why are you asking me to answer your questions? Go to someone who will have good answers for you. But I resent the claim you constantly make-that no Muslim will answer your questions and you are received with hostility by all Muslims, etc. I gave you islamicity.com If you post there, your question will be answered by a professional. I gave you (877) WHY-ISLAM Call and you will speak to a live person. I also encourage you to visit the Islamic Center of Southern California. Google them, they have many bright educated old people, not silly children like me. So take it up with someone who can talk to you instead of posting some hadiths on this site and making an official declaration that Islam has been refuted by you. You do not know enough to refute it.
All websites, discussion forums. Go read a real book on Islam!
Neither am I. The topics of trouble in Islam to me are philosophical. I study the debates between Ibn Sina, Imam al-Ghazali, and the philosophies of Al Farabi, etc. These little problems you have with quotes from the Qur’an you take out of context, hadiths from narrators I’ve never heard of, etc. are esily replied to by the sources I gave you. But I would more than all of them, encourage you to pursue your questions with the Islamic Center of Southern California. They are in downtown LA on Vermont if you call 411 to get the number.
You are full of non sense, just go to the Islamic Center of Southern California, and stop spewing propaganda about Islam. It is antagonistic to peace and understanding that we (Christians, Jews and Muslims) are very similar. All on ILP have my posts to read and will find I am not charging anything that I have not supported. You are a propagandist. Look up the meaning, you mislead.
I second this opinion of Aspacia. I am irritated by you for various reasons. The following is my honest opinion and is not an attack.
Your comments are sometimes borderline racist or prejudiced.
Your logic is often fallacious.
You ignore requests and do not show simple courtesy.
You truly appear to be a google researcher with unoriginal ideas and regurgitated logic.
You start intelligent posts but inescapably devolve into senseless rhetoric.
Your judgment calls baffle me–how can you define AVICENNA as a fanatic, as intolerant, or as a threatt?
You use your teaching “credentials” as a source of credibility. It doesn’t mean anything. Besides your posts indicate otherwise.
You are subsequently upset when those credentials are criticized/challenged then incorrectly label the critique ‘ad hominem’
An observation of someone’s character is only an ad hominem attack if they are using that observation to denounce your credibility. In my opinion, AVICENNA never attacked ASPACIA. Stating that someone’s post is irrelevant or poorly argued and flawed is not an ad hominem attack. AVICENNA called your logic INANE, not you… I too, call your logic inane. But that shouldn’t lead you to think that I disrespect you or that I too am attacking you. Calling your logic/argument inane is a request for you to clarify your proposition/point. It is not ad hominem
If anything, you appear to be more intolerant, see your post below:
SOMETHING TO WRAP IT UP: ZIONISM has nothing to do with this thread… please start it or go to those threads. The protagonist in the story is Mohammed. I will clarify this in my NEXT thread or post.
Let’s stop arguing, let’s make clear and concise propositions, and let’s all get educated about each other’s points of view.
Again Aspacia, why don’t you consult one of your many scholar buddies who you hang out with. But if you are serious about learning about what you wish to attack, you will leave your house and make a visit to the Islamic Center of Southern California. I encourage you to call and try to set something up with one of the Hathout brothers who are the experts, Ph.d’s and pro’s on Islam so that you don’t just show up and have no one to talk to. You will be warmly welcomed and respected for your intiative to learn. Tell them you are a College instructor, etc. and you want to understand these issues so that you can transmit them in a true way. Where’ the childishness in this?
Quite right, but I suggest you review Avicenna’s post calling me foul, bigoted, etc. Also, you make the same claim. If it is bigoted to reject and critique this religion, check the above claims, you are entitled to your opinion.
Again, I dislike all faiths, especially Islam. Regardles of what I post, neither of you will acknowledge the nasty aspects of this faith.
I stand by my comment, I will not let this guy near my, my family and my peers would find him ludicrous.
Is the protagonist Mohammed throughout your analogy. It seemed to jump from Abraham, Moses, Jesus to Mohammed?
I will not go to the center, but I will email them as I do not put myself into the lion’s den. Ten to one, when I provide the many intolerant, violent and misogynistic hadith and Qu’ranic quotes they will respond in the same fashion you do.
“Racist”
“Islamophobic” Yes, I am against the BS religious leaders who validate the crap that is going on. Also, they are not my brothers. I agree with this one until someone can explain and justify much of its BS. Do I discriminate against Muslims. Hell no! Khan, the Chevron gas station attendent, is a really nice guy and I have often asked after his health and possible discrimination in our town. “No” you, and all the people living here have been very supportive of me. I have Muslim student’s who confide in me. I have asked if they have suffered discrimination. Yes. Guess who from. Muslim religious leaders who do not want them socializing with the infidels. I counseled them to find another mosque, as I hope not all imams, clerics, muftis hold these view.
I did have one valid response from Cambrerro, on the BBC Islamic blog explaining why polygamy is allowed, (the many widows needed to be cared for and could not work for a living then)
I asked about now, why polygamy is still legal and why women were not allowed to work and care for themselves in case of divorce or widowhood. no response. I also asked regarding the legality of concubines. No response.
Look, I have had several Muslim students. One, a very intelligent older woman with a young daughter told me regarding her divorce plight. It seems, she helped support the family while her husband was off work, and this used all her dowry. The Islamic court refused her child support and alimony as she should not have used her dowry to support the family. What? Was she to let her family starve? Many female Muslim students have presented regarding how to reform Islam. Can the current batch of religious leaders and install educated religious leaders that know all faiths.
I maintain my position that Islam is a nightmare that has not evolved into the present.
Aspacia, I dislike all religions. However, I don’t shout it from the top of my lungs every opportunity I get… very similar to a religious person shouting Jesus Christ is the only way and all other religions are wrong and their believers will go to hell.
The point is that shouting out I hate all religions is nearly the same as saying I hate all religions except my own. Do you see the similarities? I AM NOT stating that you do not have a right to your opinion, I am merely saying that this is not helpful to a philosophical issue. I have stated many times that the most appropriate forum for this is the Rant House. WOULD YOU AGREE?
Not the case. I disagree with him. He has pointed out, in his own words, that he does not find you credible–this is mainly because you keep stating that you are credible because: (1) You are a teacher (2) with two B.A. degrees and one Masters (3) your Ph.D buddies consider you a scholar (4) and you have done 1 year of research on Islam. All the while many of your posts have begun in one direction and ended in another meanwhile missing any target in between. This is not a critique, again, it is a request that you focus on your points.
Either (A) I have misinterpreted your posts or (B) You simply hate Islam and its followers without truly understanding the religion in depth.
See, I believe the problem is evident above. I don’t know who wrote it but why would you go to a mosque or a church with complaints? I may have questions. I would ask questions regarding the validity of a particular doctrine of Islam, Catholicism, et al. The attempt is not to criticize the attempt is to learn. Now, do you mean to go complain or do you mean to go and question? Also, is not the tone of the laughter and the chair thing mean spirited?
I believe aspacia wrote the above. First, I acknowledge the nasty aspects of all faiths. However, if the point of a thread is to learn more about a specific section of a faith and you continue to digress, then how will I learn anything else besides your point that this faith has nasty aspects?
I think a lot of people would find him ludicrous… afterall, racism is very common in this world. Do you feel this way about everyone who isn’t like you and your circle? Or, am I misunderstanding your “intentions.”
Yes, it is Mohammed throughout the story… I said I would clarify this soon in a separate post or thread (I’m leaning to a thread).
You know, we can all have differences of opinion and can intelligently discuss why we cannot accept the other person’s opinion.
Aspacia miquoted and mixed up what I said and what Alderian said. Here is the real conversation between Alderian and I. And yes, I do talk at more liberty in the Rant House, how its relevant to the topic? Its not, dont take it to the heart, just focus on the content of my points. If you are offended by “meanness,” I would ask you to refrain from reading this…
Correspondence between AVICENNA and Alderian:
I should be back day after tomorrow as I have to take my syllabus and handouts to campus in time for the summer session, and I must go visit my mother. It has been two weeks and my father died in late April.
Bless you pea picken heart. How sweet. It was my dad’s time to go and he had been suffering for at least five years. He does not hurt anymore. I really miss the old curmudgeon, he had wonderful Grandfather stories regarding the Charge of San Juan Hill, Depression Era and WWII. Evidently, Grandpa Tony made great homemade brew and red wine. I do miss him, but again, he does not hurt anymore.
Now, I can avoid my mother. I even have a job offer in Nevada. Wish me luck, and Saint Patterson is chomping at the bit to leave So. Cal.
Semi polite?! You call me a fanatic, you tell me you would not let me on your property, that I would not be welcome among your circle of friends, that I am a stupid child, that I don’t understand what I’m talking about, you allude to me being a terrorist who will target and attack you, and so on… You call this semi-polite? Shows how you treat people.
Which theologians?
Aspacia, let me make myself clear once and for all. The problem is not the quotes you find, it is the interpretation that is of issue here. You take the quotes as literal and free from context, history, etc. I am urging you that to do so is a mistake. I encouraged you to get Yusef Ali’s translation for a start, then talk to a scholar at the Islamic Center of Southern California.
Geez lady, gimme a break. How is this a propaganda site? It does not fit YOUR view of Islam as a terrorist religion so I guess to you its propaganda. Aspacia, please, come to grips with yourself, Islam is not a terrorist religion. You refuse to educate yourself because your knowledge on Islam corresponds with what you think about Islam at the moment. We can’t have them shattered by learning that Islam is not what you think. Come on, go learn the truth! Don’t come up with these bogus reasons not to correspond with a scholar with “I’ll be targeted.” Who are you fooling?
What? Did you run this site by the “grand council of scholars on websites” or something? How did you formulate that islamicity.com is not considered a valid edu site by scholars? And which scholars would make a decision like this? Islamic scholars? Christian scholars? Zionist scholars? History? Near Eastern Languages and Cultures? Your scholar buddies? You come up with the most bogus charges.
AVICENNA:
Aspacia:
What I stated was deductively correct. The views you propogate about Islam are the same terrorists/war mongerers use to inflame the masses of the Muslim world, incite hate, cause destruction, do evil, and cause conflict between the U.S. and the Muslim people. Muslim fundamentalists teach precisely what you accuse Islam for doing, and give an interpretation more or less like yours. Take each ayah out of context, look at it in isolation, take it as literal, and there you have it…Islam. Therefore, I would further charge that you promote the cause of Osama bin-Laden and Muslim fundamentalists, war mongerers on both sides, and all those who have an interest in further conflict, hate, and misunderstanding between Muslims and the peoples of the West.
Wow…And you claim to be a scholar? Sure thing cookie. For those of you who do not know what the last two words in her post are, she cursed my mother in probably the most disrespectful thing one can say in Arabic. But to the issue, please do reply with how your interpretation of Islam (in scope of interpreting quotes from the Qur’an and hadith) are different from bin-Laden’s and the extreme Wahhabi wing. They are not, the knowledge is public for anyone who wants to see, yes, even on the internet which you so passionately indebt your “scholarship.”
I do not intend to move you in such an undignifying manner which you have shown here today. It is not my intention to make your life difficult. If nothing else, you should understand that you have a phobia to Muslims:
**parentheses added by AVICENNA
“Targeted?” What are you saying lady? You fear Muslims mainly because you’re on the internet all day reading hate sites and then go to teach elementary school. Get out in the world, go to the mosque, I promise you will be treated well, much less “targeted.” Who are the targeted ones in America? You don’t see Muslim Americans trying to kill Jews here. The Islamic Center in Culver City was almost bombed by Jewish terrorists headed by Irv Rubin (JDL-Jewish Defense League), and Congressman Issa’s office was targeted as well because he is Arab. Funny thing is, he’s not even Muslim, he’s Christian, in fact his last name (Issa) means Jesus in Arabic. Were it not for the FBI preventing the bombing, many innocent Muslim mosque goers for Friday prayer would’ve been killed while worshipping God. Subsequently, Irv Rubin killed himself while awaiting trial in prison. JDL is still up and running though.
Aspacia, serve the cause of peace, not destruction and war. Do not spread the ideologies of terrorists and war mongerers or the Christian extreme fundamentalist right, looking for a new crusade. Know what you are doing with your propaganda, it is a serious issue. But if you are genuine in your conclusions, then be enlightened, go to the Islamic Center of Southern California. If you wish, I will make an appointment for you with a good scholar. You will be treated with repsect and appreciation for having the decency of being genuinely concerned with understanding the meaning of these hadiths, ayah’s etc.
But this is most insignificant in light of the loss of your father. I will du’a (pray) for his admission to paradise (if there is one). And I say to you Aspacia: Asalam wa Alaikum, peace be upon you.
I think aspacia makes a good point, see T4M’s new thread and answer those questions.
Would you go to a pro-christian site and trust information from it?
Would you go to a pro-judaist site and trust information from it?
Would you go to a pro-Al qaeda site and trust the information there?
No you would call these “propaganda” sites. Really that’s what they all are.
the truth in religion and spirituality, is subjective… if you take it objectively though you can answer on of the questions I posted in the other thread…
How is the Quran more truthful than any other holy book from other religions?
Propaganda is to intentionally mislead. The authentic views of Islam need not be right, or true, however, they are expressed with sincerity on site x for example. Therefore, the site is not engaged in propaganda, since there is no malicious intent to mislead in light of acknowledged facts to the contrary. Because a source is “pro” something, does not necessarily draw the conclusion that it promotes propaganda.
I did not claim that it was. What I meant when saying “go learn the truth” is for Aspacia to learn the truth of the views of Islam. The propositions of Islam have truth value, true or false. I am not referring to this part yet. Just to learn what views Islam really holds before evaluation of them.
i) 
aspacia is LOL 