Islamic laws. Clear explainations are needed.

prove-it · June 9, 2005, 10:37pm

yeah i know… this is my point. we are not secular because our society is based upon the ideals of christianity.

yeah but my point is that christian values naturally fit into western society because the two are inextricably linked, whereas islamic traditions and ideals equate with the culture in islamic countries and therefore seem out of place in western society.

that’s what i mean about our society not really being secular… because even though it’s not officially based on christianity or the teachings of the bible, because our roots are in christianity, the general messages have filtered through to secular society and are thus compatible with christian ethics so a christian will rarely ave to choose between law and God. they will naturally correspond.

but because a muslim’s religious law is different, it does not fit into a society in which the laws have derived from christianity… like you say, the 10 commandments and all that.

it is in leviticus i think. i don’t know where i’m afraid but i read it just before i posted that because i wanted to make sure i wasn’t making it up or imagining it!! … just has a quick skim but couldn’t find it.

seriously though read leviticus. there are so many more nasty things in there.

prove-it · June 9, 2005, 10:43pm

this is for sythekain:

hello. i was about to quote your whole post. but thought that was silly!

i think you may have misunderstood what i was getting at. i’m not saying i have a problem with christianity in that sense… i know that quotes from the bible prove nothing.

i was just pointing out that it’s the same with the qu’ran.

anybody can use anything to try to justify their actions. and if their actions are evil, the justification has to be momentous. ‘christians’ used the bible to justify the slave trade,just as such people espouse their right to bash homosexuals based upon another Leviticus quote about ‘he who lyeth with another man… blah blah…’

i was just trying to say to aspacia that if you pick out bits of either religious text it will appear as harsh and morally unacceptable by today’s standards.

and so asking why she saw islam as the problem and seemed to pick no fight with christianity when ultimately it is no less guilty of the same thing.

aspacia · June 9, 2005, 11:46pm

thirst4metal:

HELL(O) F(R)IEND(S)

Who was it that said or:

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I think it is sad that religions are dragged through the mud by the very men that profess to adhere to these religions. If we look throughout history we find all kinds of atrocities being done in the name of religion or in the name of god when behind these actions are the real incentives: money, power, fear, & LAND.

Many faithful have done great deeds in the name of relgion., Mother Theresa and there is a widowed, nun, from the upper middle-class who spends her days and nights helping inmates in Tiajuana jails. Many have done great deeds in the name of humanity, that is they were not religious individuals like Galileo. One elderly atheist offered himself as a replacement for a US POW during Vietnam. Much have suffered horrors inflicted by secular governments, inflicted by their own government.

I remember reading about a time when Christianity was not as divided as it is today. There was one major branch of Christianity (Catholics) and a couple of other note worthy sects, but they were all Christians nonetheless, and typically united in their goals. I remember reading about the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, Papal rule, forced conversions, executions, witch hunts, a deliberate attempt to force god unto the world’s population and their version of understanding and knowledge. The killed anyone who denounced their faith and no one could stop them from doing this in the section of the world that they controlled (a very large section indeed). They did this all in the name of their god, in the name of their leader Jesus Christ, in the name of the lord. I wonder if things would have changed had this power that the Church wielded had not been replaced by other more moderate governing methods.

Could not agree more.

Although this may be unpopular among some Arab Muslims, I would venture to say that many of the above circumstances are still affecting many in the Arab world (and the world influenced by Arabic disciplines) today.

This is just a side note, and I realize it is off topic, so do not become ticked.
Yes, but I think that only 18% of the Muslims are ethnic Arabs.

So far, it has been a near unanimous agreement that Christianity and Judaism has had its share of problems in the past. Who among us would argue that all or most Christians were bad during the Papacy’s reign? Was it the people that acted with such cruelty or was it the leaders?

I vote for the leaders guilt.

Were the people really even aware that their beliefs and actions were disruptive?

During Medieval Times, probably not. During the Renaissance, perhaps, as this is when the concept of humanism started, albeit, north of Italy.

We shouldn’t underestimate the power of propaganda. Some would argue that this can apply to American politics. This may apply today to the Arab countries… Is that a reasonable position?

Yes, in all political, and religious arenas. The Vatican is a nasty bureaucratic political arena with much blood letting, and plotting I am using hyperbole here.

Moreover, I think it can be argued that many Arabs are using Quranic texts today much the same way that Christians used Biblical texts before.

Could not agree more, but the problem is that the texts justify this behavior.

The problem with all these religious texts are that so many of the ideas that were applicable hundreds or thousands of years ago are not applicable today. Seriously, Kosher laws are a scam… I could see Pig meat could kill you in those days but realistically, a small percentage of people would die from it today.

Yes, if pork is undercooked, unlike beef, it can be deadly.

Also, Muslim right to marry multiple women may have been applicable during times of war when so many males had died (the choice was to have multiple wives for each man, or a large population of prostitutes) but this law is not practical today. Racial or religious laws also made it clear that the true believers should not mix with unbelievers (which is very impractical to co-existence of religions). These laws continue to be a stumbling block to everyone because of some interpretation.

Yes, you see thirst, we do agree, but heck, I do not care if you disagree as this is still a free country where we can openly disagree without succumbing to killing or being killed by our government. Hum, wrong term here, murder is appropriate.

Finally, since I can’t allow myself to be fully reasonable without introducing something that makes me a jerk to many: the problem all falls on god’s head because he is the one whose holy word is being disputed over. Give us clear direction!

Yes, as a Deist I agree. God, if you are listening, quit LOL at us silly humans and HELP. WE REALLY NEED SOME HELP HERE.

Once an agnostic, I began reading many scientific texts. Ever notice how the atom resembles the solar system, and how the solar system resembles the galaxy. I believe that eventually, the form of the galaxies will resemble the atom. I may be mistaken. Anyone who’s discipline is astronomy. This is not my area.

aspacia · June 10, 2005, 12:50am

Just for information. This is from a very right wing, religious settlers group, albeit, I have asked many of their contributors specific questions, including thier rabbis and have received nothing but intelligent responses. They have an agenda, hell, don’t we all, but many of you, especially thirst, may find the following article, and right wing Isralie media source insightful regarding Judaism.

israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=5187

Please, always remember I am not PC, with any religious group, as you have noted by my posts. I was just as blunt with this source.

Not one threat or insult. In contrast, I receive a dance and insults from the many “Arab” media sources. (Not all Muslims are Arabs, but Middle-
Eastern media is described as Arab media. A misnomer to be sure.