Liquid: I’m a responsible kinda guy… 
I tried looking closely at what you wrote - but all I saw was pixels, then my eyes crossed and I got a headache. 
Did I suffer enough…?
Okay-okay “Sorry PFT, you go right on toking/typing…” I’m just some old square who misses the weed.
Nick_A: Baby’s awake - back later.
I was admonishing Nick (mainly) luv. He knows it too…
A
Hi Lady A
Picking on me again? 
My point is that one cannot help the lower without recognition of the higher both in the internal and external sense. How can you help a person stand up if you are stretched out on the ground as well? So you have to be able to help yourself before you can truly help another in the spiritual sense. It is more than empathy but a normal result of non-corrupted human individuality.
Yes Nick, it’s my pleasure to pick on you…
A
Hi Nick,
Having successfully packed baby and Wife off foraging for vittles at the local supermarket…
I’d agree with that, though possibly we differ about the origins of conscience. And about the mob-angle reinforcing the temporary ‘righteousness’ of an action of immoral intent and outcome. But on the ‘cast the first stone’ front - surely, in this imperfect world we inhabit, someone eventually has to lob the initial brick, if a society is to function at all… Perhaps the only thing we can do is to gradually reduce its weight, and improve our aim…
I’m afraid I have trouble with buying into our existance and thinking overlapping with that of the infinite in the Spinozian fashion. And prefer slopping about in the mundane flesh. Conscience, I think, is a comparitive sub-process of the memory - tallying the outcomes of dubious actions we’ve undertaken (or learned of) in the past and flagging them as unprofitable. Jimmeny Cricket then pops up when we think about a course of action that resembles such, and says “Psst - you/someone tried that before - it’s bad - don’t do it… Risky risky risky…”
Though when all’s said and done, I’m only saying tuber to your potato - the vegetable remains the same.
Just a bit of arcane curiosity, but is morality in any way linked to intent? It would seem that my intentions to do good or my intent to do evil might have some bearing on defining my moral proclivities. But of course, this is about acting on our morals and not defining what they might be. Still, how I act is also how I am defined, no? So there is a slight chance that my intent is also my definition of morality. And too, perhaps those situations where I have not awareness or intent are beyond the purvue of my moral responsibilities.
JT
No , you dear TR are not alone, in disbelief what is that PFT caracter talking about.Many people here, if not all, feel that I am crazy, or drug addict.
This topic is about Moral, and I absolutely respect everybody’s feeling or
idea on what’s right and what’s not.
Love is my state of mind, love is everything I give and recieve.
U C, you called me a Junkie, and I still love you and respect you, because
I know that you are good person, and your life just like anyone elses was created, so you couldn’t say anything else.
Even if you have that opinion about my state of mind, it would be nice
if you explain why do you have that opinion.If you have an Impression of
me being under influence of Narcotics, it would be decent to proove that
Theory.Here in US, on my job and everywhere else, we have drug screening tests, which is used to proove that person is under influence of
drugs.
I am really curious to find out, what made you jump to a conclusion that
Marijuana is part of every moment of my existance.
I am just a average dude with wife and two kids, that I am going to lose
in six months.I have spent 90000 $ in past 7 years, trying to defend myself from something I did not do. And I am going to lose that battle,
and will never see my Wife and my kids again.
My daughter is 3 now, and she is going to suffer most, because she loves me so much, and I will not be around, to take care of her.
And I am still Happiest Man alive, which is something that is very hard
for you to understand.
It is called the truth.
Much love and respect !!
Conclusions - jump-to - moi…?
Sorry if I assumed something that was not true - perhaps you exist only on a natural high…
I will ask you a question though, not out of malice, but simple curiousity:
Are you the happiest man alive, as part of a subjectively rational response to your perceptions of events , or are are you the happiest man alive, because you can allow yourself no alternative…?
Hah - if there is such a thing as justifiable happiness… 
For the record - Your average bonghead is nowhere near a junkie.
[size=75][EDIT - on second thoughts PieceFullThyme - PM me, we can wibble on about it where it won’t disturb the flow of more moral thoughts][/size]
Hi Tab
If I’d known the family was going to the market I’d have put in an order for munchies.
Yes and we’ve been making remarkable progress. I’ve read all sorts of material on the extraordinary technological advances we’ve made in not only molding better bricks but the most convincing weapons of mass destruction. It’s really a credit to our expertise and as you said someone has to throw that first brick so it may as well be at someone who deserves it in the opinion of the majority. It’s the only rational solution.
I respect that you believe conscience to be subjectively learned. I take the different view that conscience would exist even if an asteroid destroyed the earth as the emotional counterpart to consciousness that exists as part of universal structure independently of man’s existence on earth. Objective conscience exists, as does consciousness, within us as objective human attributes. The nature of our being denies us access to them limiting us to primarily imagination and programmed emotional reactions we define as conscience
Tuber, potato, whatever…just pass the potato chips
So what’s the irrational solution…?
Its the same question that was left unanswered on the terror-theory thread: How do we finally stop lobbing chunks of rock around…? In practicality, right now - or hopefully within my lifetime…?
Believe me Nick_A I’m absolutely, positively, seriously hoping you have a better way tucked in with the beansprouts.
Terrorism, war, conflict, etc. is part of being human. We disagree and sometimes those disagreements turn into something bigger, eg. war. Unfortunately, I think it is simply impossible to fix, it would take both extreme genetic and social changes.
How about fundamental changes? Changes to who we (think) we are?
A
If you mean social changes, I don’t think that is enough. We are going to have to change biological factors too, eg. we would have to remove our capacity to rage on a biological level.
My letter on “why the ethics” explains this". That without a spirit ethics are basically a load of nonsense. Nothing more than a few rules held together by what the ignorant majority think. To hell with following them if that is all ethics were about.
Thankfully ethics are based on more than what a handful of ignoramuses decide they will be, otherwise we would all be in serious trouble.
But besides that , Morality is deeper, it is the knowing of something for certain. If you dont know it, then it cannot be explained to you really.
Courage of conviction is a subjective thing. All the bravest people have acted on their heart without a constant need to analyze it all. They acted morally without thought . This is worth investigation.
This is the way of heaven, as Lao tsu and Sun tzu have said.
Well social changes yes, but how? If we want to change society we have to start with the core of society which is we ourselves. We have the capacity to change ourselves. Forget science. If you want to change genetically you have to get to the heart of the matter, the reason. What lies behind our genes? Why am I genetically predisposed? Once the reason is altered, the DNA automatically changes. DNA is living and is a manifestation of the heart of mankind which is living more profoundly than you or I could speak of.
So, once the heart of mankind is altered to align with our conscience, the manifestation is also altered. The solutions are spiritual - not social, not scientific.
A
I believe that our DNA is subject to natural selection. Thus it would take many, many generations for human beings to turn into completely benevolent beings even if the reasons for our current proposition for conflict were removed. Also, I’m not sure that it is possible for us to change those reasons, because they are part of who we are.
Time, is in fact an illusion. The length of time it takes depends how sincerely one wishes to achieve the goal. It can and has happened in an instant. How often have you looked at a certain behavour in yourself and decided to change it only to find out that one day you make the same ‘mistake’ again, over and over and over? In the moment you became aware of the whole picture, you see your patterns, all of it but somehow you struggle to make the change. Why? Because you have habitual nature.
Ok, those reasons are part of who we are, but who are we? If you wish to retain those things, of course, go ahead. If you wish to change the current status quo in the world, of course, we will have to undergo some radical personal realisation. But realisation is not enough, we need to action our realisations. We need to change ourselves.
A
How do we changes ourselves when what we are trying to change prevents us from changing it? Eg. rage is part of us, if we try to ignore or suppress rage we just risk that we completely blow up unable to contain the rage anymore.
Maybe we have the potential to change anything about ourselves, ie. our mind is stronger than our instincts, but I doubt it.
We’re not ignoring or trying to supress anything, we are transmuting it.
At present our instincts (mind) are stronger than our hearts but that is only because we have allowed our minds to master our hearts instead of the other way around.
A
You say potato I say potato.
I’m not sure what you are proposing is possible. I’ve never seen a proof of it. Especially since it is not enough for a few of us to change; all of us has to change.