You’re right. What I said was retarded. Especially considering that the exercise of moderation is what separates the ubermensch from the blond beast. I wasn’t thinking at my best when I wrote it. But I still stand by my signature.
We may indeed compare the relation blond beast - Ãœbermensch to the relation Dionysus - Apollo:
“[T]he same men who are held so sternly in check inter pares by custom, respect, usage, gratitude, and even more by mutual suspicion and jealousy, and who on the other hand in their relations with one another show themselves so resourceful in consideration, self-control, delicacy, loyalty, pride, and friendship—once they go outside, where the strange, the stranger is found, they are not much better than uncaged beasts of prey. There they savor a freedom from all social constraints, they compensate themselves in the wilderness for the tension engendered by protracted confinement and enclosure within the peace of society, they go back to the innocent conscience of the beast of prey, as triumphant monsters who perhaps emerge from an atrocious procession of murder, arson, rape, and torture, exhilarated and undisturbed of soul, as if it were no more than a student’s prank, convinced they have provided the poets with a lot more material for song and praise. One cannot fail to see at the bottom of all these noble races the beast of prey, the splendid blond beast prowling about avidly in search of spoil and victory; this hidden core needs to erupt from time to time, the animal has to get out again and go back to the wilderness: the Roman, Arabian, Germanic, Japanese nobility, the Homeric heroes, the Scandinavian Vikings—they all shared this need.”
[Genealogy I, 11.]
“[L]est the Apollinian tendency freeze all form into Egyptian rigidity, and in attempting to prescribe its orbit to each particular wave inhibit the movement of the lake, the Dionysian flood tide periodically destroys all the little circles in which the Apollinian will would confine Hellenism.”
[Birth of Tragedy 9.]
It is this extreme of the Apollinian, this “Egyptian rigidity”, of which most people think when they juxtapose Dionysus and Apollo in favour of the former. Indeed, it seems that you yourself made this “mistake”.
Nietzsche ties Egyptianism with Plato:
“We have paid dearly for the fact that this Athenian got his schooling from the Egyptians (or from the Jews in Egypt?).”
[Twilight, Ancients, 2.]
Here we see Plato, the Jews, and Christianity together - Christianity, which to most “Nietzscheans” is the epitome of “Apollinianism”. But this has little to do with the Apollo of the Greeks:
"The Bacchae acknowledges the failure of Euripides’ dramatic intentions when, in fact, these had already succeeded: Dionysus had already been driven from the tragic stage by a daemonic power speaking through Euripides. For in a certain sense Euripides was but a mask, while the divinity which spoke through him was neither Dionysus nor Apollo but a brand new daemon called Socrates. Thenceforward the real antagonism was to be between Dionysian spirit and the Socratic, and tragedy was to perish in the conflict.
[BT 12, with added emphasis.]
Here we may again compare two relations: Judaism - Christianity and Socrates - Plato. As Nietzsche writes;
“It [dialectic] can only be self-defense for those who no longer have other weapons. One must have to enforce one’s right: until one reaches that point, one makes no use of it. The Jews were dialecticians for that reason; Reynard the Fox was one: what? and Socrates was as well?”
[Twilight, Socrates, 6.]
Of course, when Nietzsche lists “the Roman, Arabian, Germanic, Japanese nobility, the Homeric heroes, the Scandinavian Vikings”, it’s easy to see what they have in common: they were all warriors at root (and this “root” is the blond beast!).
“I have given to understand how it was that Socrates could repel: it is therefore all the more necessary to explain his fascination.— That he discovered a new kind of agon, that he became its first fencing master for the noble circles of Athens, is one point. He fascinated by appealing to the agonistic impulse of the Greeks—he introduced a variation into the wrestling match between young men and youths.”
[ibid., 8.]
This illustrates how far the agonistic impulse had strayed from its root, which was not the “wrestling match between young men and youths”, but the deadly war between Greeks and Trojans, for example. At this point, there were only two real powers left in Greece: Athens and Sparta. And Socrates lived in Athens. What wonder that Athens declined around this time, leaving only Sparta as a true militaristic polis.
This is why I wrote recently, on a certain message board, in reply to someone who said “[a]ll of his [the Aryan’s] arts begin as ancillaries to his warfare”;
“I agree. And I say his arts should not be allowed to become too independent from his warfare.”
It was this same person to whom I wrote the above in reply, who once wrote:
“Dance, like philosophy, began with physical combat. The first to keep the body in trim, the second to do the same for the mind.”
Let us lead dance and philosophy back to physical combat!
“Lead, like me, the flown-away virtue back to the earth - yea, back to body and life: that it may give to the earth its meaning, a human meaning!”
[Zarathustra, Of the Bestowing Virtue, 2.]
This meaning is of course the Ü b e r m e n s c h.
We fixin to get back into this one, ya’ll. Lemme take a shower and find me a coffee shop. Jakob, go fetch your homeboy saully and tell him to suit up.
Good one. Just so befitting my present archival state of mind. Just on our way to right wood, a place we had constantly gone to when my oldest son was just a boy.
The conversation veered from his plan to leave his wife and two kids to the matter of control.
Just off the cuff, and I will rehash the whole forum, is, what manner of device does control have within or without these definitional problems surrounding the will , the appolonian, the opposite, etc.
In other words does the will have some kind of hegemony over an intentional representation ( schopenhauer)by a willful object I e application (intentionality); as a reducible , albeit contentious and contingent possibility?(Heidegger)
I will decode later, as necessity dictates.
The codex describes an overall redu ibiliru from meaning to pre-figured deconstruction of stretched out elements for the purpose of rationalization to account for the missing layers.
Prom: the above is merely another form of representation descriptive of it’s accompanying romantic idiom that powers the will.
So an antynom will not serve any purpose, or a collusion as it is described nowadays.
Let’s grin and bear each other’s description awhile, until meaning can be decoded to an extent that will reify at least to the point of a new take off, as Xunian , I believe said it originally.
I dunno about Jacob, but sully has been gone a very long time, is he still alive?
Whats more relevant right now is the “educated masses” Nietzsche speaks of in the will to power, I think, who form the putty for the artist tyrant to shape the future out of.
We see this now in the “woke” movement. I.e. the debt-crippled virtue-signallers, the new under class.
You, Prom, think you’re under-class, but you’re upper class. You have actual work, namely actual skills for which there is real demand in the physical plane, and no student debts, thus no owners. Most people coming out of college do so with so much debt that they can be 99 percent sure that they’ll always remain beholden to the banks, meaning, they are actually property of other humans. At that, the only way they can even get and hold a job that allows them to pay off the interests on their debt, is by virtue signalling, by being politically correct, i.e. by expressing a violent will to destroy American democracy and a hatred of the concepts of biology, and performing other very tiresome activities that serve only the interests of their owners.
When I first read of this in 2002 or so, I had no real picture of what precisely the nature of these educated masses would be. I was still fresh college dropout myself, dropped out of course because I was literally not allowed to express my thoughts, a command structure which was impossible for me to comply with. But, I still had a lot of my intellectual friends then and stuff and just didn’t really quite see yet what would become the case - what is the case now. Now that I do see, I see that there don’t seem to be a whole lot of solutions other than the one Nietzsche envisioned. And indeed this would amount to an absolute class division, except, not in the Marxist way - marxism merely serves to solidify the slave class qua its being property of the upper classes. Which aren’t so much defined by their capital as by their will to play with humanity, with human nature, as one plays with a chemistry set. Different nuances. There isn’t gong to be a dialectic, there is just going to be an Egyptian styled hierarchy, of philosopher-lords governing billions of people who have been educated into illiteracy at their own expenses, and thus at the cost of every bit of what could have been their liberty if they had just followed a path like yours and learned a craft.
Meno I asked you before, can you at least spell my name correctly?
I am Jakob. You know this very well.
Im sure S is fine. He predicted an age of barbarism and advocated the acceleration of the collapse of our society. I guess he’s just sitting back grinning at how well it is going.
Sorry man , like someone duly noted I have been sauced lately.
But do You go along with the collapse theory?
Well, its hard to outright reject it.
For me it is a struggle, has been the past years, to keep my philosophic optimism, which is a kind of optimism that comes from having things planned out. Ive had things sort of planned out in my mind where it concerns the future of religion, for one thing. I have hopes of a peaceful solution, something to do justice to the hopes of the more lofty prophets and the more kind hearted believers, of which there are endless amounts.
And I think Im going to have to go back to that optimism, that plan of sorts, and thus, leave behind the idea that we will definitely return to an age of barbary. Its like I actively have to choose.
petition for leather boxers to become standard military issued uniform
Once at a Motorhead concert, a dude walked up to me and said that we must all put on diapers and red capes and go hunt down the emos.
Prometh might have an issue with that though.
Anyway, we didn’t do it.