Obama: Christians, get Down from your High Horses?

Before you call shenanigans, maybe call Google.

The broad points:
1 Islam is a problem right now.
2 Obama is from an ideological camp that can only identify demographic groups as problems if those groups are ‘whites’ or ‘Christians’ or ‘wealthy people’.
3 Thus, Obama has to deny 1, no matter how much evidence mounts for it.
4 To shore up his position, Obama references the Crusades, which is only a good example if you have the same problem as Obama does, mentioned in 2.
Conclusion: You should all be laughing at Obama right now.

Islam is a problem right now ?

Is this really what people think?
I must hang out in different social circles to the mainstream opinion.

I actually find this next to impossible to comprehend.

I noted your views are not in synch with reality. Will you claim reality do not exists outside the mind as well??

Islam, partly but critically, was/is a problem then/ right-now to humanity.
Islam [partly] is inherently evil [secular not metaphysical].
The reality of this is supported by the evidence of glaring evils committed by SOME Muslims all over the world then and now regardless of whether Muslims are the minority or majority.

The root cause is due the martial ethos and some percentile of evil laden verses in the holy texts of Islam catalyzing SOME fundamentalist Muslims to commit evil.
Obama is ignorant of this fact and is ‘stupidly’ trying to be politically correct.

How big IS the problem, really? And is the problem really Islam itself? I know that the popular narrative these days is one of a state of culture-war between “the west” and “islam”, but if you look closer, is that actually the case?

Naturally I prefer my reality over yours. Your reality is shit. You can have it as far as I am concerned.

On the question of reality it is not your choice to define what reality is.
It is only the mental cases who define their own reality and live it as if it is real.

The test of reality is verification on a personal and collective basis.

  1. As I said above, Islam is partly evil and that is a serious and critical threat to humanity.
    Here is one glaring evidence [25,091] amongst many others in various aspect of life around the world.

If you insist there is no such thing as ‘evil’ in reality and my statement in 1 is false, you can test it.
Try going to Syria where ISIS is, then in a square, shout Islam and Prophet Muhammad is a sham.
You will experience [at least for a short while before getting beheaded] what is real reality and we the collective can get a verified report to confirm its truth.
Alternative you can try Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and any other Islamic country.
Accept the challenge?

I have been to the Middle East in the past when conflict was occurring. My accomodation was guarded with two military men with automatic weapons along with hand guns as a back up - 24/7. Your point being?

I prefer my reality than yours.

You need to open your eyes and mind wider.

In the past, many thought the problem with Islam [partly] and Muslims [SOME] were confined to a bunch of lunatics despite me discussing the critical truths of the matter.

Now ISIS as comprising Islamists motivated by the Quran and other associated holy text has captured an area as large as the UK and many around the world are making the pilgrimage to ISIL to fulfill their ultimate religious obligations.
We are now talking of millions of Muslims [Sunni] of different shades in ISIL in a land that is rich with oil.
The danger is when ISIL get organized say with countries like North Korea and others with the same affiliations.
Therefrom they will be able to amass WMDs that have a long range to reach USA and other parts of the world.
Note these Jihadists do not have any interests in their life on Earth but rather awaiting to be martyred to go to heaven for their rewards of 72 virgins and eternal life.
This sort of potential threat could wipe off the human species when they contaminate the whole Earth atmosphere with nuclear radiation.

This is the worst scenario but realistically they are capable of other greater threats to humanity when they have the necessary weapons of mass destructions, i.e. chemical, biological, cyber and others beside the nuclear options.

What is dangerous about such Islam and Islamists is they are not confined like Iran or North Korea to a country with international borders but they are an ideology that has potential jihadists embedded in every neighborhood around the world.
Even if the alliance can destroyed them in ISIL, they can easily reorganize/morph and resurface anywhere in the world in different forms.

Therefore, unless the rest of the world and moderates Muslims first recognize there is a big problem within Islam itself, they will miss the root causes and will merely be fire fighting till the premature extinction of the human species, if not, they will bring forth major catastrophe to humanity.

But then you must feel that Christianity is partly evil too, as evidenced by sectarian violence in Northern Ireland (go into a protestant area and shout that protestants are heretics!), widespread homohobia, the bombing of family planning clinics, witch-killings in Nigeria… I am sure we can create a lovely count that would go surprisingly high!

I would rather say that it is possible to interpret religions to justify horrible acts. I agree with you that Islam has some passages that strike me as particularly inflammatory, and that on average, Muslims currently seem less successful at completely ignoring the unpalatable parts of their holy books than other religions.

Such comparison is a fallacy. Two wrongs do not make one right.

I understand Christians had committed serious evil in the past and some in the present, but they are not motivated by glaring verses from the New Testament [Christianity]. There are Buddhists who commit evils as well, but they are not [in general] motivated by verses from their holy texts. Obviously we have to tackle these evils as well but their root causes and potential consequences are not as threatening to humanity as those from the fundamentalists of Islam.

What is critical is the current threat and its significance from Muslims who are catalyzed by their Islam, i.e. the main and sub-holy texts.
Note my points above and threats from ISIL.

Are these the WMD’s the US were supposed to go and find in Iraq or new ones? Wow. Job well done on selling you that whole narrative… even though they were caught out with blatant lies several times :slight_smile:

Propaganda puppets are SO easy to come by.

I never said it did. I just said that if you want to consider Islam partly evil, then so is Christianity, unless you want to apply a double standard.

Nor are the Islamist inspired by the non-inflammatory portions of their holy book, just by the nasty bits. Same with the bible-thumpers. There are some lovely parts of the Qu’ran all to do with sharing and being kind and such as well, you know!

And as far as abortion-clinic bombing and sectarian knee-capping is concerned, it is highly debatable that these are inspired only by the old testament… even if that DID make a difference.

When Christians de-emphasise the nasty bits in their scripture and concentrate on the nice bits they are generally fine. Same with Muslims.

What I find funny is that the Romans probably viewed the religious extremism in their middle-eastern puppet states and provinces around the year 0 in a very similar way.

You follow the narrative of a sort of global culture-war between “The West” and “Islam” where theocratic extremists are looking to dominate the globe. The ISIS fighters follow a mixed narrative: part holy war, part resistance against a powerful imperial force bent on a neo-colonialist rule. Personally I think both are examples of simplistic stories to explain vastly more complex processes, while conveniently pretending their own actions are fully justified.

No matter what a group believes or actively disbelieves, it WILL be used to inspire hatred or, at very least, be blamed for it.

Us vs Them to the End.

How big is the problem? You can compare extremist Muslims to extremist Christian groups like the KKK or whatever. I suppose the difference would be that extremist Muslim groups are big enough to control entire nations and their armies, whereas extremist Christian groups are [i]actual[/i] tiny minorities in the way the left likes to pretend is true of Islam.  If 20 percent of Muslims are extremists, we're looking at hundreds of millions of people. I think 20 percent is low-ball. 
And yes, if you look closer, this is actually the case. Start looking up statistics of what percentage of Muslims support Sharia law, or female genital mutiliation, or honor killings, or executing homosexuals, or think Hezbollah is good, want the utter destruction of Israel, or outright support specific attacks against the US like 9/11.  Look at the percentages, and realize you're dealing with, as I said, hundreds of millions of people, entire governments, and their armies. Maybe the problem muslims are a 'small minority'. But a small minority of 1.5 billion people is still as large an opponent as we've ever faced.

what?

Note this is what I wrote above;

I said ‘will,’ i.e. they have the potential to do so. We should be wary of such a potential instead of waiting for that reality to materialize.

I have never agreed with Bush chasing after WMDs in Iraq then.

I have said Judaism, Christianity and Islam in part has potential inherent evil within them. However, there is a difference in the degree of the potential from each of them evil at present. The evidence from the evils arising from some Muslims committed around the world at present is very glaring for you to infer my point.

I have done extensive research on the Quran, the history of Muhammad [his martial background] and Islam. The nasty bits from the Quran and its associated books are really nasty to the extreme which called for world dominations and killing & oppression non-believers where necessary. A minority say 10%, that is 150 millions around the world take such a call literally and seriously.

If 90% of Muslim de-emphasize the nasty bits, we still have 150 millions of them around to commit evil acts. It only took 18+ to do 911 and create terror. Then we have the lone-wolf[s] from US to Europe extending to Australia. Potentially worst is we have ISIS controlling a land mass as big as the UK.

It is a fallacy [the deflective ‘what about this or that …’] to compare the Romans in this case.

From the above, I am certain you have not done enough research to understand the essence of ‘Islam.’

The underlying ideology of Islam is basically driven by the primitive “us versus them” impulse to sustain the survival instinct. This is an internal psychological battle within themselves that has manifested and transposed onto the “them” and 'others. That is the realistic vastly more complex processes you speculated.
The “them” in this case are Jews, Christians, idolaters, non-believers and anyone they think are against their religion.
What is commonly thrown around that Islam as against the ‘West’ and neo-colonialist rule are all secondary issues. What has shooting of Malala [re anti education for women], Boko Haram, and other oppressive acts against non-believers has anything to do with the West?

The battlefields to counter Islamist terrorism is not to be fought in the deserts in the Middle East, rather it is to be fought in the middle between the ears [in the brain and psychologically] of each fundamentalist Muslim.
But first the stupid [not you] Muslim apologists and politically correct [Obama and his likes] must recognize the root causes of the problem at hand.

Priz… Waiting for your reply.