It is impossible for all races to have identical IQs. But perhaps it is possible that deceiving the world into believing that they are all identical is the better path to take.
…but then, you KNOW where deception leads.
I don’t disagree with any of the highlighted portion.
And I should do that in a thread about race realism why, exactly? Let me get this straight- you raised the issue of the Constitution because you wanted to change the subject of the thread to U.S. economics? I don't believe you. "All men are created equal" doesn't refer to natural qualities like intelligence or strength, you thought it did, and when I pointed out that your own source disagreed with you, you were humiliated and now you're pretending that you were talking about the economy the whole time.
You’re also fleeing in terror from your “United Nations” gotcha moment now that I’ve demonstrated that you were full of crap on that one too.
I’m not interested in what you think about the 14th Amendment, or the Civil War, or the price of tea in China. Obviously if I respond whatever bizarre point you’re trying to make, you’ll just change the subject again because you aren’t actually trying to have a conversation here, you’re just trying to make people look bad that you have a grudge against.
So to recap:
The U.S. Constitution doesn’t say anything about race-realism.
There is no consensus on the relationship between IQ and race.
There is plenty of empirical evidence that there is a connection between IQ and race.
You’ll respond to those points or you’ll get nothing further from me. I’m not interested in your silly games.
The problem is, there are SO many studies. Studies on rich members of a race vs. poor members of a race. Studies on adopted members of a race vs. non-adopted members. Studies of member living in their native country vs. members living abroad. The differences in IQ between the races persist among all of them. So for example, black children raised by wealthy white parents STILL have a lower average IQ than white children in similar, or even worse circumstances. There may be a non-genetic explanation, but it's not as simple as nobody having thought to study a particular demographic- everything you can imagine has been tried.
I would like some data on either side, or at least a respect of the fact that the issue resolves around data and not feelings. You asked me to clarify what I was saying about “scientific racism” and I did. It’s a term used to imply that people who believe that race exists, or that some quality like intelligence is link to race, are evil racists who are fit to be disregarded. Nobody published a theory of ‘scientific racism’, and it certainly wasn’t disproved in middle of the 20th century.
The only disparity I’ve cited as fact is that Ethiopia has a horrendously low national average IQ, and I only cited that because somebody else asked. As far as my sources, as always, I’m not going write a bibliography for something you could confirm for yourself with 30 seconds on a search engine of your choice.
theamericanconservative.com/ … nd-wealth/
That’s an in-depth analysis of what you already know and are asking me to cite for some reason: That there is an enormous amount of data concerning race and IQ, that most of it seems to confirm that different races have statistically-significant differences in IQ always of the general form East Asian > White > Black with Jews, Hispanics and American Indians somewhere in the middle in those cases where they are included at all. There’s a robust debate about how to interpret this data, and what it means. Comments of the form “Well, I met a black person and they seemed pretty smart” and “If you conclude X from this data, you’re a racist” don’t help anything- they aren’t data or reasoning, they are baloney.
I didn’t bring phrenology up, and YOU didn’t bring it up just to mention that it’s irrelevant.
I'm not going to show where you're incorrect because I don't care. "Racism" is just a scary word people used to turn ideas they don't like into thought crimes. You can call these discussions racist, bigoted, or devil-worship for all I care, it changes nothing and it's a meaningless distinction. The question of whether or not race has an influence on IQ is a fair question to ask because there's so much evidence of various kinds to suggest that it does.
I mean think about what you just said- we can have discussions about racial inequality, but if the outcome of that discussion is something you don't like then somebody is a racist. What's the point of a 'discussion' where you've condemned every result but the one you want in advance?
Rain check.
I’m tired.
The war’s not over.
Perhaps the fact that Africans never ventured out of Africa (voluntarily/millenia ago) meant that they did not have to adjust to other ways of life and surviving (I’m sure this may have already been mentioned?) It seems that those who ‘have’ to venture forth develope more brain power as a by-product of that action.
In your mind.
The South are so strong, why’d they give in?
To leave one’s country voluntarily in search for a better life, takes courage and resolve.
Not only did they endure their previous environment, they managed to grow in spite of it, to the point where they gathered the necessities to make a new life in a foreign land possible.
The unwilling were influenced towards vulnerability - The willing were influenced towards self empowerment.
====
(I was trying to make this point, but then I got impatient. So I just said the side of the enslaved. 
)
Whether or not we should have affirmative action policies will not be resolved by determining that a race is inferior. In a different world, perhaps. Not in this one. This is therefore inpractical.
Affirmative action will go away when the recipients of those benefits reject them.
I’m playful. Not trying to stump you or make you angry, I’m trying to enjoy my day. A grain of salis, dear, a deep breath… get out from your pile of papers and take a short walk while the summer lasts.
Whole lot of assumptions. 1. That I don’t know anything about ethiopia: false; 2. That the results are something that I didn’t want to see: false; 3.That I am excusing the results: false; 4. That I’m being condescending: well, not on purpose
I haven’t written a single sentence against racial realism, have I? You’re so eager to pick a fight that you don’t even care about what my position is, yer gonna fight me no matter what
I’m trying to take a pragmatic stance. All I am asking here is what is the point?
I’m not here to defend or discredit anything. Personally, that races have different attributes is a matter of simple fact. To say that one race is the superior race, though… hm, what’s the scale?
Go pick on the next one in line, papito. 
Yap away, boy
I would be more interested to see the survival scale.
Like, take a person of each race/ethnicity and throw them in the wilderness, see who comes out of there carrying a boar.
I don’t kow how Africans and Indians live side-by-side/quite happily amongst savage wild animals… in that respect most of us would be mentally weak in comparison.
Right. You’re shifting the conversation to practicality, because a discussion of the facts didn’t go the way you wanted. So suddenly the facts are irrelevant- your subjective assessment of what’s useful and what isn’t is what matters.
And I answered you. I’m not going to do it a third time.
One race is superior? Did I say that? Did anybody? Why are you bringing it up?
It could be. We’re certainly not going to be able to take any IQ tests of people living thousands of years ago. All we can say for sure is that IQ tests that pay attention to race tend to shake out the same way- even when economic, regional, and cultural matters are accounted for (as best we can).
Incorrecto. There was no shift in the face of facts. Look at my first post in this thread
The facts are a given… facts are, after all, facts. Right, schnuckiputzi?
Let me try to state it a little more clearly for you: I am in agreement with race realism.
It isn’t always “us vs them”. I am neither “us”, nor “them”. I reserve myself the freedom of looking at the subject from the outside.
And I answered you that your practical application is impractical.
Fodder for animosity, argue for the sake of arguing, battling cyber wars, being angry on the internet… putting me to sleep.
But please don’t mind me. Carry on your exercise of futility. I just had to know.
Aren’t we making statistical, factual, objective, emotionally detached measurements here? We should get there at some point, no? A neat little spreadsheet on MSExcel?
There are many policies that cost a lot of money, and many more attitudes that lead to animosity, based on the idea that the races are (must be) equal in every respect, and thus any outcome where they aren't equal is a result of discrimination. It would be very useful for a great number of practical reasons to discover that this isn't the case. It's very simple.
Might is right eh?
Where’s the ‘love and acceptance’ now?
As far as I can tell, the debate basically breaks down like this:
1.) There are tons of IQ tests that seem to show statistically significant differences based on race, and they always break down in predictable ways- Back < White < East Asian. Many of these tests try to correct for wealth, geography, upbringing, and so on, and they get these results anyway.
2.) IQ tests are flawed in any number of ways, and we continually revise how we do them. So, old tests become irrelevant based on new standards. So there’s a lot of controversy as far as which tests to count.
3.) Liberals. As usual, they falsify data, call people bigots if they dare disagree, and in general allow politics to mutate science into something horrible. Stephen J Gould was a liar and a charlatan who’s crap about IQ still influences the discussion today. The idea that race doesn’t exist is based on politics, not good science. Most leftists will simply call you a racist and have nothing further to do with you if you say anything (or even hint that you might be thinking something) that goes against what they think about race.
4.) Income. There are also many IQ tests showing statistically significant differences within the same race based on income level. Given that black countries are poor countries and black within other countries tend to be poor, this makes a strong case that the IQ differences are based on culture/economics, and sheds doubts that attempts to correct for that have succeeded.
5.) IQ is going up everywhere. The human species as a whole is getting higher IQ’s, according to tests. Maybe this means we’re getting smarter, maybe it means we’re making the tests easier, who knows. But whatever it means, IQ is going up too fast for evolution or selective breeding to be the explanation. What’s more, races that score lower on IQ tests are improving faster than races that score high.
6.) Most research seems to conclude that intelligence IS influenced by genetics, however. If this is hard science, then all of the studies showing IQ discrepancies based on income level need to somehow account for genetic variation as a factor: are rich populations more intelligent than poor populations because they select for it in their breeding, or despite the genes for intelligence being evenly distributed? Either way, the possibility of race being a factor comes back into it.
Right now I tend to think it’s cultural- there are enough factors within our control that are proven to affect IQ tests, and IQ is changing much faster than genetic drift can account for, so to me the most likely scenario is that there is a connection between race and IQ not because of genetics, but because of the cultures the races tend towards. What is discovered about the general heritability of IQ might change my mind, and more IQ tests on trans-racial adoptees groups might as well.
While all this is legitimate, the only thing I care about is what is done with the data. Regardless of the scores, we cannot make judgments based off of it, legally. Personally, anyone can make a judgement how they wish, obviously, but legally we have to ignore IQ tests completely and treat all of the populous the same.
Except that we DON'T treat all the population the same- racial minorities get favored status when it comes to being hired and educated, specifically because their dimished presence is taken to be a sign of ongoing oppression. So that genie is already out of the bottle.