edjjar,
Explaining this with any specificity couldn’t take more than 10 or 15 thousand page volumes.
What is the ‘betterment of society’?
What is ‘reasoning aided by future computational devices’?
What is ‘some form of objectivity’?
It’s occurred to me that religion is one of those institutions that could be used in this endeavor. Why do you need something new?
JT
The creation or whatever you want to call it
like i said earlier , religion fails becuse it has no way of testing it
ejddar
So the fundamental question of your being, of your heart, is the physics of the universe. OK that’s fair. I understand now why you take the position you do.
Says who? Many arguments with God and religion have nothing whatever to do with creation. The creation of the universe is but one issue.
i think im being to vague for you guys
there are questions that one ask for example:
how and when the universe was created.
what is matter
and how does this allow for the creation of life.
religion attributes all of these to God
and then goes on a long description of god and his plan etc.
this does nothing to explain those questions, but rather shifts them to new ones. when and how was god created along with thosands of other questions
The problem is that we have no way perceiving or testing god
on the otherhand we are inhabints of the universe and are able to interact and perceive events. which gives us a way to formulate and prove theory
religion in the end is left to be argued by theologins
now those are just the fundamental questions
other questions involved in politics, society, etc all contain the same problems when used in religion. they are all conjectures and arguments, nothing more
Maybe you’ll better appreciate the complimentary relationship of science and religion if a scientist expresses it.
What would be an example of a question involving politics or society (or the creation of the universe, for that matter) that would not be “conjecture and argument”?
I’m not saying that religion has produced nothing of substance, but that all good occures as a byproduct and not of the original motive
einstein fell prey to my original post. unwilling to accept a fate randomness in the progressing world of quantum mechanics, einstein clinged to his last constant form of order and purpose
god
eddjar
Actually it is the opposite. All the evils of religion are the result of human interpretation and manipulation of its original motive which is freedom from the fallen human condition.
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to answer your question jerry
most modern ecconomic and game theories are experimented on and tested in real time conditions every day
Does this elevate them above “conjecture and argument”?
no, thats why it is called game theory not conjecture
so if it is human interpretation that corrupts religion
that would imply that there was some sort of moral absolute
if that is true that means that we are unable to conceive of true religion.
that in itself would bound us a limit which would leave religion beyond the realm of existence.
which helps support my thesis of religion being a unusable tool
I’m not following. You answered in the negative but seem to want to differentiate between theory and conjecture. What exactly are you saying here? Let me ask it this way: Is there some theory that describes the creation of the universe in terms that would make said theory more useful than conjecture? If so, what is the theory and what about it makes it more useful than conjecture?
currently we are not at point of descibing the universe in terms of a coherent theory that would be distinguishable from conjecture.
that is why religion still exist today
but i am tring to show a trend of how the scope of religion has shrunk throughout the ages and will continue to do so until eventually it reaches the question of creation.
that is why ultimately religion is a question of creation
eddjar
Morals are only the degeneration of conscience which is a normal result in the absence of consciousness. Lacking consciousness we gradually lose perspective including emotional perspective as an unconditioned aspect of our being which is conscience. This gradual result has produced the emotional chaos of modern culture.
The intent of all the great teachings initiating with a conscious source is to restore human perspective as a middle in relation to “as above, so below”