Selective Morality

[scythekain]

@tentative

Hey MB,

Then the extremist will not be rational no matter what. Be it god on their side, or “science.”

True enough. My point is that call it what it is and don’t pile irrationality on top of it.

it’s too late for that, there’s more of them than there are moderates and skeptics. it’s almost like it’s a sin to be a skeptic in the scientific community, as it is in the religious community.

[Astral]

Greetings back at ya Nick_A

@Nick_A

Hi Astral

Now about morality! This is unescapable! If we are to be judged this means that everyone knows what is good and evil.

I never make a mistake about peopel who try to pass off this idea of moral relativity. Some things are wrong just plain and simple, yet people will try to hide from their own iniquity just as Adam and Eve tried to Hide from God!

I’m not trying to argue with you but to understand how you appreciate Romans 2 in this context.

biblegateway.com/passage/?se … version=31

1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

If this is true, what is the sense of condemning others?

This would need better etymological clarification. Like so many things in the Bible, their meanings have changed. And these meanings would require that you understand them as they were meant to be back then and not based on what we “WANT” them to mean now.

Here is a Definition provided by Dictionary.com

con·demn ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-dm)
tr.v. con·demned, con·demn·ing, con·demns
To express strong disapproval of: condemned the needless waste of food.
To pronounce judgment against; sentence: condemned the felons to prison.
To judge or declare to be unfit for use or consumption, usually by official order: condemn an old building.
To lend credence to or provide evidence for an adverse judgment against: were condemned by their actions.
Law. To appropriate (property) for public use.

Generally speaking the warning against condemnation is for pronouncing judgement, but not against expressing strong disapproval. So stop and think for a moment. Is there not a strong disapproval against murder? Is that not still condemnation… something spoken against? Are we no longer allowed to punish? Shall we no longer enforce the law so that we may not tresspass? God forbid that such a logic may come to pass!

@Nick_A

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

This seems to me to be saying that if the law exists within you as a motivating attribute, a person is righteous even if unaware of the written law.

You are not correct in your understandings. Faith is what justifies your actions. And if you have no faith to justify your actions then no righterousness will be counted in you.

You see… Faith releases you from the law. And if you live by the law, then you are under the law… and the law only brings death. Why? Because none are perfect and will cause a tresspass against the law! In times passed this was sufficient to grant salvation (living by the law) but we have now been purchased by the Blood of Christ. In Him, our faith of Him, can we now be justified! No longer shall our works in the Law be counted as righteousness but our Faith which justifies our works be counted as righteousness!

I hope you can undersand this… because it becomes really important to understanding the whole idea behind why having Faith in Christ becomes important to salvation.

@Nick_A

17Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; 18if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”

So don’t become an "expert. But the temptation of fame and fortune make this a tough one to avoid for people that have this charisma that allows it.

I believe that humility and mercy are your counter agents to the overly righteous. One of the reasons they are a virtue. When missing any of the virtues you are incomplete. Many of the passages such as these are speaking of the consequences of only achieving some of the virtues and leaving the rest behind.

@Nick_A

28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.

So again there is caution about the relationship between the inner and outer man and that concern with appearance negates the entire esoteric or inner value of the perception of morality.

This is the great psychological damage of selective morality. It takes the inner experience of the unwary and distorts its value into secular approval of justified selective expression.

Good for the ego of the outer man but not good for the essence of the inner man.

Yes you appear to understand that well enough. There are so many ways to dictate that. But never so eloquently as the Bible has.

[Astral]

@scythekain

@tentative

Hey MB,

Then the extremist will not be rational no matter what. Be it god on their side, or “science.”

True enough. My point is that call it what it is and don’t pile irrationality on top of it.

it’s too late for that, there’s more of them than there are moderates and skeptics. it’s almost like it’s a sin to be a skeptic in the scientific community, as it is in the religious community.

Your words are on par Scythekain.

Science has become the Church of Old, preaching dogma from the pulpits and calling heretic against those who would say something contrary!

Science has become the new Government Established Religion.

[Nick_A]

Hi Astral

I’m trying to understand your perspective and not criticize so don’t assume anything suspicious in these questions

Generally speaking the warning against condemnation is for pronouncing judgement, but not against expressing strong disapproval. So stop and think for a moment. Is there not a strong disapproval against murder? Is that not still condemnation… something spoken against? Are we no longer allowed to punish? Shall we no longer enforce the law so that we may not tresspass? God forbid that such a logic may come to pass!

[i]Matthew 22:

21"Caesar’s," they replied.
Then he said to them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”[/i]

Is strong disapproval the domain of God or Caesar? Why didn’t Jesus express strong disapproval on the cross rather than to say "forgive them for they know not what they do?

I hope you can understand this… because it becomes really important to understanding the whole idea behind why having Faith in Christ becomes important to salvation.

[i]Gal 2

16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.[/i]

Do you consider faith OF Christ, belief IN Christ, and faith IN Christ as the same?

[scythekain]

nick and astral,

first astral. You are right. in the 20’s a scientist from the northwest tried pushing forward the theory that the features of eastern washington we’re caused by a catastrophic flood. He was panned, because what he suggested was too close to the biblical flood. His theory wasn’t accepted until the 30’s and even into the 40’s when archaelogical evidence for Lake Missoula was discovered.

Now today, it’s the same way… if you try being a true scientist, a skeptic, you are panned. A scathing report was written against global warming recently… the majority of the scientific communities response? He is a heretic, and god…er man willing he will burn for his atrocities.

this is a copy of a speech that Michael Crichton made, it’s related to the second point.

crichton-official.com/speech … ote04.html