Some Interesting Ideas

Sam,

Your missing the point. I’m not letting you do anything. You let yourself. THAT"S the point.

JT

Hi JT,

     Ok ok, I will state the problem otherwise: what would prevent me from believing that Earth is 6000 years old or that I have 50 souls if reason has nothing to do with certainty or likelihood? 

S

Hi Tentative,

I think what Sâmkhya meant was: is there some external constraints that actually affect what we could reasonably believe besides just doing self-evaluation or whatever you happen to find within you that says it’s the truth. Reason, as Sâmkhya conceives it (and I’m sure as many of us conceive it) relies on some external evidence/proof/justification besides our postulating something is the case. Of course, our mind is involved, but we draw something from different sources to arrive at the truth, if truth is indeed attainable.

P.S. the “what would prevent me from believing…” portion of his post above is, among other things, what I meant from constraints. What would prevent me from making up stuff.

Exactly: the danger is that beliefs no longer rest upon the strength of logic and sense data, that is, on an external authority that we obey, but only on whim.

Many people can be conditioned to find anything as an “inner truth”. It’s a psychological process.

Sam and arendt,

Perhaps it would be useful to make a distinction between the objective and subjective world. I believe that the sun will come up in the morning. This is based on the best scientific information available, plus my observations over a few years that it is a continuous pattern, and therefore, the statement is ‘reasonable’ and reasoned.

Far different to ask for the same sort of ‘reason’ to explain that which is God, or that which is simply awareness that will not yield to language. To attempt to use logic to explain experience beyond language is futile. One does not stand ‘outside’ experience. One IS experience. Truth is not outside but inside our experience. So how do you ‘know’? The moment you stop seeking from without and be in the experience. You are the experience. If you appreciate your aliveness as a whim, I have nothing further to say. A few see more than just whimsy.

JT

Hi JT,

Very well. I understand what you mean: faith. I believe Sâm would agree with this assessment of faith as well. :slight_smile:

That the statement is reasonable means nothing regarding its likelihood. Reason has nothing to do with certainty or likelihood. Reason is faith, and faith is a poor guide to truth. It was Dunamis’ terrible message. Naive people go on believing that reason will lead to certainty or likelihood, but they are mistaken. Reason is faith: that’s the terrible news.

Whether it be the sun or God, reason is equally powerless.