Something Past Civilization

gib · March 27, 2016, 2:14am

Maybe those moments of total nonsense are just you failing to understand her wisdom.

Mictlantecuhtli · March 27, 2016, 3:08am

The entire world has become a global reservation. There is no off the reservation anywhere on the planet.

The only way to get off the reservation is to get off the planet. Good luck to anybody trying to do that…

Mictlantecuhtli · March 27, 2016, 3:15am

Wizard:

Moving outside civilization:

From Subjective to Objective,
From Childhood to Adulthood,
From Idealism to Realism,
From Security to Freedom,
From Liberalism to Conservatism.

Civilization is Security, housing women and children, increasing survival rates for loyal members (citizens), allowing anybody and everybody to breed in high numbers and for all progeny to survive. The function of civilization is to expand population, resulting in the consumption of natural resources, and cultivating untamed areas, colonization. The “progress” of civilization results in the cementing of class structures, revolving around beauty markers. Some people within civilization are most privileged, and therefore have most access to the resources and areas throughout all of the civilization. However, privilege means nothing outside civilization. Only within civilization is humanity protected from the elements, predators, and moral consequences.

Outside (civilization) forces any individual or group into morality. Outside, you have no safety nets. It is life or death, do or die. Sleep in the dirt. Eat raw and rotten food, to stave off starvation. All animals and organisms suffer in the “natural state” outside. Nature is full of suffering, pain, misery, and harshness. Morality is natural, as all animals understand innately that they must face the consequences of their immediate actions. This is the true meaning of any “objective morality”. Slave populations within civilization, who never step outside, have no realistic nor objective sense of morality. They are slaves, precisely because, their sense of morality, consequences, and costs are skewed in their favor. Civilization is an extended state of infantile immaturity and solipsism, where remaining childlike and ignorant are heralded as the highest virtues. To remain an eternal infant or child is the inverted (im)moral goal of civilized humans.

The defenders of civilization, liberals, are hypocrites in the sense that they advocate “freedom” but have no realistic nor objective sense of freedom. Their “freedom” is an inverted and perverted form of freedom. One that desires and demands rewards (Rights) with no real costs paid or owed. Pleasure without pain. Success without sacrifice. Wins without loss. No such thing as this, in nature, outside civilization.

You can neither speak with Citizens with any degree of respect, nor expect them to know, any degree of “Morality”, “Objectivity”, or “Freedom”. They don’t know these concepts, and, never will. They cling to civilization, out of a necessary and immediate fear, of the unknown.

This analogy was originally known to philosophy as the “Allegory of the Cave”. Within the cave, sits the Civilized man, humanity. They will never venture outside. They will never see the “real world”. They will never know, nor want to know, a wider truth or a wider vantage point of existence. They are stuck, firmly, within civilization. Slaves, through and through. In many ways they are both innocent and blameless. Most humans have been bred, over centuries and millenniums, to be exactly as they are today, as slaves. Unquestioning, loyal, humiliated, emasculated. They Serve the state and civilization without true rebellion, without any qualms, and without regret. Any longing they have of nature, of returning to the past, is based on idealism, and not reality.

They have no real sense of nature. They have been disconnected from the ancients. They have been severed from their roots, and re-planted countless times within an artificial environment.

You should not look at humanity as someone like yourself, who yearns to escape. They do not yearn. They do not wonder. Their curiosity is vanquished. They have no thirst for knowledge, experience, wisdom. You must understand, empathize, learn, and know, the nature of the slave better than he and she knows themselves. These slaves of society are powerless. They have no true power, except through the predictable avenues of state-society (civilization). The “authority” of a policeman is completely artificial, as is the politician, bureaucrat, businessman, teacher, doctor. True authority and “real” power is different. Natural power represents natural law, something that cannot be tamed. True freedom suffers within civilization, as civilization requires the suppression and repression of its slave population.

Your first step to understanding society and civilization, the prisoners within, is by understanding that you-yourself, by the nature and specificity of your question, are unlike you. They are not your allies, not your friends, and will not wish you well.

Because to turn against civilization, ultimately will result in the turning against humanity. And they will come to hate you for this, for being disobedient, “ungrateful”, and turning against everything they’ve been taught to be, and throw away their lives within.

Obviously a prisoner will resent and despise somebody who walks freely into, and out of, prison. But what the prisoner does not know, in this case, is that he and she has grown too accustomed and dependent upon the prison. The prisoners cannot survive outside the walls. This has been true for thousands of years now. What large percentage of “humanity” have lost their roots, been severed, and are cut off completely from nature? How many humans have no future, except according to the whims and wishes of their state-society?

Another brilliant post Wizard. You’re really becoming a favorite poster of mine here. Please don’t stop posting.

I think however you discount the abilities of the prisoners way too much. For the prisoners to escape they obviously need to burn the prison down to the ground, kill all the guards, kill all of its staff that assists the guards, and kill the warden.

Now, there is no reason as to why some of the longest imprisoned of these prisoners once free can’t learn to adapt on the outside especially if they’re mentally adaptable. I don’t believe it’s entirely hopeless concerning the plight of the prisoners.

Mictlantecuhtli · March 27, 2016, 3:19am

Those same tribal people being stripped of their land and displaced by governments or corporations?

Those tribal people?

Mictlantecuhtli · March 27, 2016, 3:23am

I’ll give you a hint. You doing nothing reclusively changes nothing.

My proactive goals of eliminating the would be captors of civilization that seeks the captivity of us all would change things dramatically.

Mictlantecuhtli · March 27, 2016, 3:27am

First my student of humor, you must stop taking everything so serious. Why so serious?

Mictlantecuhtli · March 27, 2016, 3:30am

gib:

Arcturus Descending:

Heeheehee? I put "heeheehee because that’s the sound of the laughter I made as I wrote the above?
What about you, gib?

I was mimicking you.

Arcturus Descending:

Isn’t that a bit of overkill for an exquisite little thing like a snowflake when all it wanted to do was to exist for a moment or two?
So, tell me about the journey of that little snowflake after the rock…

It depends. How cold was it? Maybe the cold of the rock was enough to protect that delicate snowflake from melting from the warmer air and the warmer ground, and it preserved its fractal shape for a good long while. Alternatively, maybe the rock crushed its fragile structure. Maybe the rock wasn’t cold at all. Maybe it was so warm it melted it immediately and it became a liquidy goop that got soaked up into the dirt.

And then there’s the question of how the rock got there. Did someone push it over the snowflake of purpose? By accident? Did anyone push it? Or did it suddenly fall from the subtle forces of the elements over thousands of years?

Oh, Geez…This is like the whole chicken and egg thing, isn’t it?

Which came first? The snowflake or the rock?

Mictlantecuhtli · March 27, 2016, 3:41am

Going back to the original post which this thread in subject is about, there is no going back to an existence of nature before the advent of civilization. Civilization has unfortunately changed human nature mentally and on a physiological level for that to ever happen, however the current paradigm of civilization is also unsustainable where it won’t last to the point its self destruction is most assuredly guaranteed. What then comes next is either two things, the next step of humanity’s evolution or its complete total annihilation. I give it 50/50 odds for either one.

The next stage of human evolution I think will take place in the ruins of civilization assuming any human beings survive such a global collapse world wide. The new culture would be very anti-culture I think as it will be an infusion of the primitive and the leftover technological segments of collapsed civilization.

When you watch post-apocalyptic movies or read literature pertaining it you’ll notice the survivors are very animalistic and primitive but go around with high powered rifles along with other modernized weaponry. The savage primitive nature of human beings assimilates with the old remnants of civilization’s former technological glory. That’s going to be the new culture and identity of the world which humanity will inherit I think assuming an extinction level event is averted.

surreptitious57 · March 28, 2016, 4:01am

Me doing nothing changes nothing but it is not why I am here while you want to change everything but are waiting on others to set it in motion

I however shall be completely free once I am dead and I can achieve that all by myself without having to wait around on others to do it for me

The only way to be truly free is to be dead because once that happens you no longer have to conform to anything and that is as free as it gets

It is certainly freer than your brave new world that would require eternal vigilance so if that is your idea of freedom I am not at all interested

Mictlantecuhtli · March 28, 2016, 10:18am

surreptitious57:

HaHaHa:

You doing nothing reclusively changes nothing

My proactive goals of eliminating the would be captors of civilization that seeks the captivity of us all would change things dramatically

Me doing nothing changes nothing but it is not why I am here while you want to change everything but are waiting on others to set it in motion

I however shall be completely free once I am dead and I can achieve that all by myself without having to wait around on others to do it for me

The only way to be truly free is to be dead because once that happens you no longer have to conform to anything and that is as free as it gets

It is certainly freer than your brave new world that would require eternal vigilance so if that is your idea of freedom I am not at all interested

Why wait now? With that line of thinking one begins to wonder why you haven’t committed suicide.

Artimas · March 28, 2016, 11:02am

The post above reminds me of that movie Mr Nobody. If you never make a choice you’re still not free.

Arcturus_Descending · March 28, 2016, 2:36pm

I don’t really take everything so seriously. There are things which I see as funny - things which are said in here and in my outer-world life. Believe it or not, I have a great sense of humor.
But there are things, I suppose, which I find difficult to take as being funny. Maybe I just “see” with different eyes. Maybe it’s just part of my being a contrarian (when it’s called for) like yourself, but I’m not as much of a JOKER as you are though you might be surprised if you saw me in RL. We all laugh and joke around for different reasons - and I daresay that some of those reasons actually have nothing to do with actual humor. Our thoughtlessness and callousness(when joking) hide our defenses and vulnerability. Don’t you think that balance is necessary at times?
Also, as I’ve said, I like to dive a bit deeper into things at times. Can’t something be seen as both humorous and at the same time worthy of discussion on another level?

surreptitious57 · March 28, 2016, 4:57pm

Suicide is not natural and as I am not planning on going until I am eighty it would also be premature

Arcturus_Descending · March 29, 2016, 1:29pm

HaHaHa,

I would actually be interested to kow the answer to that question if someone actually knows the answers.

gib · March 29, 2016, 2:13pm

Is this still a metaphor for surreptitious?

Arcturus_Descending · March 29, 2016, 2:22pm

Calm down, gib - not what you thought it meant. lol
Is that a basic need? :-"
although I can understand that at times it might appear to be the MOST basic need to one.
The nectar of the gods includes wine, etc., but coffee first. Coffee is the truest nectar of the gods. Its aroma could be detected at the Big Bang. It permeated the whole of it.

gib · March 29, 2016, 6:56pm

Ok, I’ll calm down.

WendyDarling · March 29, 2016, 7:11pm

Arc,

Yes to coffee. An absolute need.

Mictlantecuhtli · March 30, 2016, 1:04am

Arcturus Descending:

HaHaHa:

Arcturus Descending:

Did I harm you in any way?
Show me the way oh great guru.

First my student of humor, you must stop taking everything so serious. Why so serious?

I don’t really take everything so seriously. There are things which I see as funny - things which are said in here and in my outer-world life. Believe it or not, I have a great sense of humor.
But there are things, I suppose, which I find difficult to take as being funny. Maybe I just “see” with different eyes. Maybe it’s just part of my being a contrarian (when it’s called for) like yourself, but I’m not as much of a JOKER as you are though you might be surprised if you saw me in RL. We all laugh and joke around for different reasons - and I daresay that some of those reasons actually have nothing to do with actual humor. Our thoughtlessness and callousness(when joking) hide our defenses and vulnerability. Don’t you think that balance is necessary at times?
Also, as I’ve said, I like to dive a bit deeper into things at times. Can’t something be seen as both humorous and at the same time worthy of discussion on another level?

What you say has some merit. I do have a serious side of me at times but ask anybody that knows me offline and they’ll describe me as being very reserved. Still, I really do view this planet especially human civilization as a giant absurd joke hence why I’m the Joker of course.

Mictlantecuhtli · March 30, 2016, 1:05am

Precisely.