SRT: what is it about?

My explanation was probably poor seeing your response.

I first noted that light cannot be accelerated by any means. It cannot be pushed or pulled. And as a part of any spinning EM wave, one portion must always be going in the direction of any mass object. That tiny portion cannot alter its forward speed and doesn’t.

The entire rest of the knot or bundle can bend more in its trajectory toward the mass. But as it attempts that motion, it must strain the EM bond that holds the particle into its shape. That strain is what causes the reverse reluctance against whatever is pushing or pulling it. That is the inertia.

Think of a spinning bicycle wheel. One small spot on the tire is headed in the forward direction. If the wheel is spinning at a maximum possible velocity, when you attempt to push the axle forward, that one small spot cannot head any faster in the direction you were pushing than it was already going. But the rest of the wheel can veer more toward that forward direction. As those other parts veer more toward the forward direction, they must bend the spokes a little in order to remain attached to that one spot that couldn’t change its velocity. Bending those spokes is what causes the reluctance force back against the pusher, you.

A particle is merely that same wheel that is not only spinning, but also tumbling, hence giving three dimensional inertia and causing a gravity field in the process.

Is that any more clear?

Getting back to the actual subject of what SRT is about…

All relativity theories are about is our ability to construct knowledge. We measure things so as to know relationships between things. But we have to keep in mind that our measuring instruments and senses are a part of the system of the universe itself. Because a measurement is merely a comparison of one thing to another, as we measure, all we are saying is that “relative to this one thing, this other thing is bigger, smaller, or whatever”. It is always a relative comparison.

The problem comes up when one realizes that all things are not merely an issue of simple comparison, but deduction. Once we know that we are being affected at the same time that we are trying to compare something to ourselves, we can stop and think. We must consider if what we witnessed is actual or the result of us being affected in some way and thus mis-perceiving.

An example of deductive measure might be a situation of us knowing that our gas gauge is misreading. If we know that it reads only half of what is in the tank, we don’t accept our direct measure but instead, we compensate and deduce that we “actually” have twice as much as measured.

The relativity theories have a little trouble in that regard, because they postulate that there is no “actual”. In relativity theories, it is postulated that what we measure is the only existence. Thus if our ability to measure becomes hampered, according to relativity theories, we must accept what is measured even if we know that our instruments are flawed. “Truth is what we measure and nothing else. There is no Absolute. There is no God.

The problem of course, is that we can get around flaws in our instruments to deduce what is actual anyway and we do it without even realizing it in most cases. But at times, we deduce incorrectly, so such logic must be very carefully constructed. Time is one issue that had always been deduced to be an absolute measure when in fact, it wasn’t. People, including the new age scientists, have never been very good with logical deduction (as is being displayed on the Stopped Clock Paradox thread).

Time gets into the special relativity issue because;
Time == the measure of relative change

That simple statement is pretty new to the world today but is really all the relativity theories were expressing.

But due to the fact that time is relative measure, everything related to time becomes relative as well, most especially velocities and observations of simultaneity. And thus logic becomes even more important to ensure to be cleanly presented. Without logic, we easily conclude that nothing is real. There is no absolute. There is no God.

One observation was that light seemed to be always measured to be traveling the same speed regardless of how fast the observer was traveling. If we accept that what is “real” is only what we measure, then we have to conclude that light is indeed traveling at the same speed and everything else must be distorted. The problem with that, is that when you distort every other measurement to try to keep the speed of light as a constant, you end up with irrational and illogical paradoxes.

The good of it is that it gives the world of students something to think about. The bad is that it doesn’t actually teach them to be any better at logical deduction and thus they merely replace old mistakes with new mistakes.

Light doesn’t slow through glass because of mass or gravity. Its refraction is due to a change in the phase velocity. (Wiki link)

The bending in the presence of mass is because light will always take the shortest path from A to B, and in the proximity of mass such a ‘straight line’ can look like a curve to an observer in a different reference frame. If you traveled alongside such a light beam, you would not be able to detect any deviation from a straight line, even using a hypothetical ‘perfect straight edge’

I think you’re putting the cart before the horse with that.
“The reason the people left the party was because the number coming in and the number going out became a negative gradient.”

The phase velocity is not a “thing”. It is a mathematical aberration and the result of the light wave travel velocity. When the light wave slows, the phasing is affected.

If you are bending with the light (as you certainly would), you would not realize that you are bending. But you are still bending, whether you know it at the time or not.

Actually, I should point out something very relevant.

There are two versions of Special Relativity Theory. There is the “Real SRT” (RSRT) and the “Imaginary SRT” (ISRT).

The RSRT altruistically states that light bends and is merely perceived to always be going the same speed. The ISRT egotistically says that the universe bends because truth is only what we perceive. ISRT is saying that your car always follows a straight line and it is the road that is twisting underneath and “that tree should be punished for running into me”. But even ISRT says that light only follows a true straight line if you are the light.

This distinction is being brought out and debated on the Stopped Clock Paradox thread, although probably very hard to follow due to the politics and religiosity involved. Logic is for the altruists. Authority deferment is for the politicians.

It is the political result of Human Secularism wherein all is as we humans declare and perceive, there is no reality. Its fundamental incentive is to allow for deception through controlled perception (The Matrix = “Reality is Perception”) to govern society.

I was correcting your earlier assertion that refraction is due to gravity/mass.

I understand that it is difficult to accept curved space as a reality. We live in what appears as a Euclidean flat space, but Einstein’s insights show us that reality is otherwise. The light is not bending in it’s own reference frame - any more than it does here on Earth. A straight line is defined as the shortest path between A and B - which light will always follow in a vacuum.

Yes and I was correcting your earlier correction. :sunglasses:

It isn’t just difficult to accept. It is simply incorrect. And Einstein explained that it was merely a matter of perception. But then he died still unsettled as to how to resolve certain matters concerning time.

About Euclidean’s space and Vacuum’s space.
Everybody knows what Euclidean’s space is.
Question: what is Vacuum?

“Remember gentlemen, we have not proven
the aether does not exist, we have only proven we do not
need it (for mathematical purposes)”…
/ Einstein’s famous University of Leyden lecture
of May 5, 1920./

" The problem of the exact description of vacuum, in my opinion,
is the basic problem now before physics. Really, if you can’t correctly
describe the vacuum, how it is possible to expect a correct description
of something more complex? "
/ Paul Dirac ./

Herman Minkowski said about his minus 4D
spacetime continuum:
“ Henceforth, space by itself, and time by itself,
are doomed to fade away into mere shadows,
and only a kind of union of the two will
preserve an independent reality.”
Question. What is the “a kind of union of the two “?
Nobody knows what really Minkowski space is .

In Wikipedia we can read:
“ Unfortunately neither the concept of space nor of time is well defined,
resulting in a dilemma. If we don’t know the character of time nor of space,
how can we characterize either? “
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime

“Now we know that the vacuum can have all sorts of wonderful effects
over an enormous range of scales, from the microscopic to the cosmic,”
said Peter Milonni
from the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.
======== . .

Actually a straight line is not defined as such at all. It is a shortest distance that has been defined as the straight line, not the other way around. But ISRT redefines length and distance so such semantical games are pointless and circular.
A straight line == the center line of an equal sided cylinder.

Glad someone else noticed that besides me. :smiley:

I can not only define it, but prove aether. But that is no short story.

Minkowski space is the result of assumptions from ISRT wherein portions of reality must disappear entirely

I’ll be taking care of that shortly

I was being polite. You stated that the speed of light was slower in glass because of gravity. You were wrong.

No you are not bending. I said it was difficult to understand, and you evidently don’t understand.

A straight line is the shortest line light takes from A to B. That is a definition - not an opinion. I’m sorry you don’t accept it as a simple truth. You are over rationalising something that is very simple. Einstein showed how simple it was - even in extreme circumstances which Newton could not envisage. That is why insight is sometimes called ‘genius’.

As was I.
I well understand what you are thinking on this matter and why you are thinking it, but as you have stated yourself,
You are wrong. :sunglasses:

I am slowly proving it on a different thread.

…your turn :wink:

Which different thread? No need to be cryptic. And I’m not wrong. You just think I am - which is OK, because I think you are wrong too.

Do you still assert glass bends light because of gravity? Do you still assert that a straight line is not the shortest path light takes to go from A to B?

Obfuscation is not a debate.

On the Paradox of the Stopped Clock, so as to avoid a lot of unnecessary reading, you probably should start here.

That was my point. We were not debating, merely expressing counter opinions. As I said earlier, there are 2 versions of SRT, the RSRT and the ISRT.

If you want to debate, take up the paradox issue.

Btw, you might want to note that according to your ISRT, there is no objective truth, everything is a matter of frame of reference. Thus;

From your frame of reference, your perspective, you are right
From my frame of reference, my perspective, I am right

So your ISRT is satisfied and you cannot tell me that I am wrong without violating your own ISRT.

But since I accept RSRT with its objective frame, I CAN tell you that you are wrong without violating my RSRT.

Logical consistency determines truth.

The discovery of the electron spin
/ S.A. Goudsmit /

And that was it: the spin; thus is was discovered, in that manner.
Of course we told Ehrenfest about it and then summer was over
and I went again to Amsterdam and various episodes followed.
Naturally, I found it wonderful, because in the formalism which
I knew it fitted perfectly. And the rigorous physics behind it
I did not fathom. But Uhlenbeck, being a good physicist, started
to think about it. … “A charge that rotates”…? He claims that he
then went to Lorentz and that Lorentz replied: “Yes, that is very
difficult because it causes the self energy of the electron to be wrong”.

And Uhlenbeck also tells you that …
We had just written a short article in German and given to
Ehrenfest, who wanted to send it to “Naturwissenschaften”.
Now it is being told that Uhlenbeck got frightened, went to
Ehrenfest and said:
“Don’t send it off, because it probably is wrong;
it is impossible,
one cannot have an electron that rotates at such high speed and
has the right moment”. And Ehrenfest replied:
“It is too late, I have sent it off already”.
But I do not remember the event, I never had the idea that is was
wrong because I did not know enough. The one thing I remember
is that Ehrenfest said to me:
“Well, that is a nice idea, though it may be wrong.
But you don’t yet have a reputation, so you have nothing to lose”.
That is the only thing I remember.
lorentz.leidenuniv.nl/histor … dsmit.html
======================…
“ . . . . . it is impossible,
one cannot have an electron that rotates at such high speed
and has the right moment".
/ S.A. Goudsmit /
==.
1.
Do we have another way to explain the high speed of rotation
( frequency) of elementary particles?
2.
And if it is possible (!) . . . . . then . . . the constant speed c=1
of quantum of light will be minimal.
And we have theory . . . theory of ‘ Tachyon.’
===.
S.

Well, typical presumptions of that era. Lorentz was wrong.
Lorentz, no doubt, was thinking in terms of a mass rotating and having a momentum factor. Why wouldn’t he?
Well, he shouldn’t because the effect of mass is not within the particle, but emitted by the particle.
A similar argument could be, and was, made concerning the atom.
How could an electron be orbiting and not emitting radiant energy?
Science actually gave up and skipped over that one and just accepted the idea of quantumization as a fundamental principle without per se cause. Actually quantizing occurs for an exact and predictable reason and is not merely a fundamental force, but an aberrant effect.

The spin of particles is similar. It implies that there should be energy involved and even lost, but in reality, it doesn’t work like that. The mass is not what spins, but merely the particle. There is no momentum involved. The mass is the resultant effect of the particle’s spinning. But don’t try to correlate a spin to mass, because what is measured as “spin”, not spinning. It is the magnetic moment of a particle that is spinning that is measured. A particle can have no measurable “spin”, magnetic moment, yet have the same mass as any other, because the spinning that is within, isn’t polarized such as to yield an identifiable moment.

Actually, a better way to think of it is;
A particle is spinning and tumbling energy that produces mass.
It is not a spinning and tumbling mass that produces energy.
The precise manner it tumbles is what determines its “spin” type.

I can’t interpret that. :-k

you guys are impressive…i wish you could teach us dummies…

Yeah, so do I.
:angry-tappingfoot:

:laughing-rollingred: :D/

:mrgreen:

that was really a good one…saint you do some things good…

Another impressive explanation by Mr. ‘john heath ‘
as good as explanation by Mr. ‘James S Saint.’

Nice bit of history .
It is always good to know how ideas evolved .
As to electron spin there is a addition variable that should be considered .
If a magnetic field is set up electrons can be separated into up and down spin .
If only up spin electron are separated then put through a addition magnet field
at 90 degrees to the first field the the up electrons will separate into a 50 / 50 mix
of up and down electrons . You see the problem . If only up electrons can separate
into up and down electron then the spin is not a property of the electron .
The spin property of a electron is imposed on it by the environment .
Some what like a tennis ball skimming off the side of a wall picking up a spin .
/ john heath /

Well, he shouldn’t because the effect of mass is not within
the particle, but emitted by the particle.
/ James S Saint /

Exactly, mass is not primary property of particle,
it is its influence to the surround.
Again very simple example:
two vacancies tend to be attracted and two interstitials tend to be repulsed

Or: two parallel whirls are attracted and two antiparallel whirls are repulsed

BTW the “spin” phenomenon has the same “motor” as inertial motion has –
it is universal motion of the “presence” to the “future” - m*c^2 ~ kinetic energy
of this motion… Spin is whirl by which is “particle”/defect replicated,
flows to the future.
/Cerveny /
=====================.