The simplicity of atheism

[jimmyrealconfused]

[quote=“Sâmkhya”]
Atheism appears to be a simpler hypothesis than theism, and therefore, it is more reasonable (after Ockham’s razor).

• Atheism needs only one world, the natural one. It needs not add a supernatural world, beyond the reach of the senses, a world which is more mysterious than this one (what is God?)

This is more of a cry for acceptance than anything else, listen I feel like I have gradualy excuse the typo becoming very Nihilistic/ Atheistic in nature and have no one to speak to about these ideas.

You see first of all I simply don’t like people but I also don’t believe in anything I believe that nothing gets better or worse it just is for the time being. We spend all of our lives investing time and planning into life and it mearly ends
At this point my mind as a whole is compleatly warped I know though that I believe in nothing so if a Nihilist could please email me
or respond to my post I would appreciate it greatly

[Scottish_guy]

@Sâmkhya

Atheism appears to be a simpler hypothesis than theism, and therefore, it is more reasonable

How is it simpler and more reasonable ?

[oreso]

@Scottish guy

@Sâmkhya

Atheism appears to be a simpler hypothesis than theism, and therefore, it is more reasonable

How is it simpler and more reasonable ?

as has been said, less assumptions.

Thiest: There’s the world, and the supernatural world with God.
Atheist: There’s the world.

[Scottish_guy]

as has been said, less assumptions.

Thiest: There’s the world, and the supernatural world with God.
Atheist: There’s the world

Ignorance is bliss yes, and there is much to be said about the zen philosophy of “no mind” and its benifits , but this concept is not quite the same as no assumptions , no god , no mind = zen enlightenment .

Most of the people I know and have met that do believe in a supernatural force are better people for it.

People who used to stab other people , kill other people, were voilent wife abusers or drug addicts and alchoholics, or simply jealous controlling and manipulative in their personal affairs with others.

I think Its all about what makes a person good company, as we are innately sociable creatures . Not how complicated someones theory of a godless universe is, or how mighty they think their religion is over everyone else,s.

Life should be about simplicity yes, but I have,nt met many atheists who are simple and just happy to be alive. They are usually as caught up in argument as zealous christians or muslims are. Or are slightly reckless in their dealings.

This contradicts harmony.Harmony is the most important thing wether there exists a god or not. Harmony in the mind and in the world. I think all would agree with this,atheists and theists.

To assert that atheism equals"an easier life" as it were would not be correct . You say that with atheism there is only " the world " , true , but in my experience people who have this opinion are usually philosophical to a great extent , since they have arrived at their conclusion through intensive contemplation or academic study .

This type of intensity has the ability to make someone less alive actually , as it leads to a reliance on the intellect for all the answers.

But anyone studying buddhism or zen, both known for being essentially atheistic , would tell you that some things are supernatural. Consider the fact that even though many buddhists do not believe in a god , they still believe in a heaven with deities.

This goes against western scientific rationale in many cases , that a heaven can exist.

Yet I would sooner listen to a zen master who is an upstanding citizen than someone who has taken a degree in philosophy or something and thinks he knows all about the mysteries of life, but in fact lives a life full of discordant thoughts and reckless impulses that do not assist others truly.

I dont believe that you can say atheism is more reasonable than a belief in a deity without it being speculation . Its a matter of perspective.

[oreso]

Most of the people I know and have met that do believe in a supernatural force are better people for it.

People who used to stab other people , kill other people, were voilent wife abusers or drug addicts and alchoholics, or simply jealous controlling and manipulative in their personal affairs with others.

Anecdotal evidence i dont share. I would curious about the statistics, but these things are manipulated very easily.

I think Its all about what makes a person good company, as we are innately sociable creatures . Not how complicated someones theory of a godless universe is, or how mighty they think their religion is over everyone else,s.

Life should be about simplicity yes, but I have,nt met many atheists who are simple and just happy to be alive. They are usually as caught up in argument as zealous christians or muslims are. Or are slightly reckless in their dealings.

People who declare themselves atheists in your ear shot may not be a representative sample of all the people who are non-religious and lack beliefs in god.

This contradicts harmony.Harmony is the most important thing wether there exists a god or not. Harmony in the mind and in the world. I think all would agree with this,atheists and theists.

Why are you dumping your load here btw? In any case, i disagree, progress is made through (usually) intelligent struggle.

To assert that atheism equals"an easier life" as it were would not be correct . You say that with atheism there is only " the world " , true , but in my experience people who have this opinion are usually philosophical to a great extent , since they have arrived at their conclusion through intensive contemplation or academic study .

Er, of course atheism doesnt make things easier, what has that got to do with anything? What if it is only philosophers who claim there is only the world, so what? It doesnt change the strength of their argument (and it is not only philosophers btw).

This type of intensity has the ability to make someone less alive actually , as it leads to a reliance on the intellect for all the answers.

You are anti-rational?

But anyone studying buddhism or zen, both known for being essentially atheistic , would tell you that some things are supernatural. Consider the fact that even though many buddhists do not believe in a god , they still believe in a heaven with deities.

This is true, there is a difference between areligious and atheist people. Only traditional definitions would confuse the two.

This goes against western scientific rationale in many cases , that a heaven can exist.

Not at all. Science (western or otherwise) doesnt seriously investigate the existence or non-existence of any kind of afterlife, because there is simply not enough evidence, nor a reliable way to gain any.

Yet I would sooner listen to a zen master who is an upstanding citizen than someone who has taken a degree in philosophy or something and thinks he knows all about the mysteries of life, but in fact lives a life full of discordant thoughts and reckless impulses that do not assist others truly.

Ridiculous. If someone claims to know the mysteries of life the only thing of interest would be their arguments and only their arguments, whether they were upstanding, philosopher, discordant, french, zen, child molesterer, non-human; it doesnt matter.

I dont believe that you can say atheism is more reasonable than a belief in a deity without it being speculation . Its a matter of perspective.

It is not a matter of perspective at all. I do not consider my non-belief in klingons and vulcans to be speculation, and the same with god. Even things that probably could well exist such as “a man called Yann Sebold with grey hair who lives in Newcastle and likes draughts”, as i have no proof, it it not speculation if i do not believe they exist. Without evidence the only reasonable state is non-belief.

[Scottish_guy]

People who declare themselves atheists in your ear shot may not be a representative sample of all the people who are non-religious and lack beliefs in god.

aye , this is true .

Why are you dumping your load here btw? In any case, i disagree, progress is made through (usually) intelligent struggle.

Btw ? sorry Im not hip to the superhighway anorak chat , what does that mean ?

Er, of course atheism doesnt make things easier, what has that got to do with anything?

Here is what samkhya said ;

Atheism appears to be a simpler hypothesis than theism, and therefore, it is more reasonable (after Ockham’s razor).

Im just saying that the “appears " part is an assumption as well as the " is more reasonable” part.

You are anti-rational?

Of course not , your looking into things too much and jumping to conclusions .

Naturally I am not anti rational as I have a brain also and an intellect which I enjoy using .

Not at all. Science (western or otherwise) doesnt seriously investigate the existence or non-existence of any kind of afterlife, because there is simply not enough evidence, nor a reliable way to gain any.

That depends on what you call scientific research. I would call tai chi a form of scientific research actually , but thats my opinion. Its also my opinion that you cannot judge spiritual paths without first having applied yourself to one or another intensively .

Ridiculous. If someone claims to know the mysteries of life the only thing of interest would be their arguments and only their arguments, whether they were upstanding, philosopher, discordant, french, zen, child molesterer non-human; it doesnt matter.

mmmm

[oreso]

@Scottish guy

Why are you dumping your load here btw? In any case, i disagree, progress is made through (usually) intelligent struggle.

Btw ? sorry Im not hip to the superhighway anorak chat , what does that mean ?

btw : by the way.

Er, of course atheism doesnt make things easier, what has that got to do with anything?

Here is what samkhya said ;

Atheism appears to be a simpler hypothesis than theism, and therefore, it is more reasonable (after Ockham’s razor).

Im just saying that the “appears " part is an assumption as well as the " is more reasonable” part.

‘Easier’ and ‘simpler’ are not the same thing, what are you talking about?

You are anti-rational?

Of course not , your looking into things too much and jumping to conclusions .

It was a question not a statement.

Naturally I am not anti rational as I have a brain also and an intellect which I enjoy using .

And so, would you care to clarify your position? How can people be overreliant on the intellect, and how does this make you less alive, and what does this have to do with atheism being or not being more reasonable than theism?

That depends on what you call scientific research. I would call tai chi a form of scientific research actually , but thats my opinion. Its also my opinion that you cannot judge spiritual paths without first having applied yourself to one or another intensively .

Im not judging anything spiritual. I practice tai chi myself (and i assume you mean chi gong, not just tai chi chuan), but it is not a science. Honestly, you should read up on it (stuff about falsification for instance).

Ridiculous. If someone claims to know the mysteries of life the only thing of interest would be their arguments and only their arguments, whether they were upstanding, philosopher, discordant, french, zen, child molesterer non-human; it doesnt matter.

mmmm

[/quote]
mmmm what? Have we resorted to telepathic debate?

You need to be more focused in your argument and support and explain contentious points.
Cheers!

[Scottish_guy]

You need to be more focused in your argument and support and explain contentious points.
Cheers

I dont " need" to do anything unless I want to.

[oreso]

@Scottish guy

You need to be more focused in your argument and support and explain contentious points.
Cheers

I dont " need" to do anything unless I want to.

wha?
im afraid you do if you expect to argue coherently.

im sorry if i insulted your intellectual manliness, but care to answer the points raised? Or at least raise new (focused) arguments? If not, its curious why you go on a philosophy board at all.

[easymoney]

Hi

@oreso

Thiest: There’s the world, and the supernatural world with God.
Atheist: There’s the world.

Absolute Skeptic: How do you know there is world?

EZ$

[easymoney]

Hi

Atheism doesn’t have to explain anything. Whatever schools of thought the Atheist follows will give the answers.

EZ$

[torn_prince]

satanist-atheist-truth by fact.
christian-hoper-delusion liar.
philosophy well explained
is a philsopher well made.

[aporia]

oreso,

After thinking about it for a while I’m beginning to see your point of view. Maybe people don’t really have a desire for god. I don’t think it really hurts you to believe in him, but it’s not clear to me in what sense it helps either. Perhaps… god just doesn’t matter.

[oreso]

@aporia

After thinking about it for a while I’m beginning to see your point of view. Maybe people don’t really have a desire for god. I don’t think it really hurts you to believe in him, but it’s not clear to me in what sense it helps either. Perhaps… god just doesn’t matter.

theres actually a ‘movement’ (though thats far too grand a term ) called apatheism, where belief in god is just ignored. You can be an apatheist and religious and just not expect anything from the big guy or areligious and do nothing spiritual at all, it doesnt matter. The idea being, regardless of God’s existence or non-existence, nothing Godly appears to be happening so lets call the whole thing off. Curiously enough, most apatheists are religious, presumably because folk become atheists by considering the problem and actively rejecting the existence of God.

Unfortunately, as Im still quite interested in the existence of God, i cant be an apatheist.

easymoney, start a new thread and i’ll answer there if you like.

Cheers!