i guess not
Listen buddy i am a christian that doesn’t mean i hate gays i just don’t agree with the choice that they make. In the old testament it is a bit harsh on the punishment for homosexuals but it does not say that christians must hate them.
SOOOOOO that means your wrong 
It says this in Leviticus 18:22 and 18:29 and also in Romans 1:18-27,
1 kings 14:24 
You don’t agree with the choice they make? What would you suggest a gay man to do then? Get a girlfriend? I believe tell them to join the shaolin temple is a better option. You’ll see what I’m talking about if you just get naked in front of a gay man. You see in his eyes, that there is no choice involved. Better still, get a woman naked in front of you, and then ask yourself if you actually “decide” to be aroused, or just aroused.
Bye the way, I don’t think that jesus would agree the choice you made about that name of yours.
by none other than the will of god, i keep coming up with progressively better ways to sum up my argument against your crappy bible:
do you agree that a gay man is born to be gay and nothing else? and if not born, than at least subjected to a mother and a girl-experience that creates gayness? basically- was a gay man made to be gay against his free will decisions?
if you say yes to that-
did god give some men the ability to have sex and not others?
if you say yes- you have no say in government policies and, by the way, get the fuck off my planet
"by none other than the will of god, i keep coming up with progressively better ways to sum up my argument against your crappy bible:
do you agree that a gay man is born to be gay and nothing else? and if not born, than at least subjected to a mother and a girl-experience that creates gayness? basically- was a gay man made to be gay against his free will decisions?
if you say yes to that-
did god give some men the ability to have sex and not others?
if you say yes- you have no say in government policies and, by the way, get the fuck off my planet"
This is what I call great minds think alike. Join the force Phae. Oh where is PatheticObseliteReckless today?
I say this just for the sake of arguement, and not to bash gays, but is your question so absurd? Assuming He exists, he gave some men the ability to walk and not others. He gave some men sight and not others. He gave some children life and others death. Doesn’t He work in mysterious ways? We all would have things we’d love to do if only it were legal/socially acceptable. Wouldn’t it be possible, hypothetically, that being given an urge that they’re forbidden to indulge is their “cross to bear,” so to speak? Some are drunks, some are drug addicts, etc. Perhaps that’s their “challenge” (not that I equate homosexuality with addiction). Many things God does don’t appear fair to us mere mortals.
phaed, i see exactly what you are saying
he must have said to cripples that they are immoral if they embrace the scietific cure for quadraplegism.
if you are born without the use of your legs, and atheistic science say that they have found a way to use dead baby cells to make your legs work, if you are a christian quadraplegic you must say no! because god made you the way that you are, and god can certainly not give you anything besides waht you are meant to be forever no matter what!!
no! god did god not give me the ability heal my legs even thogh you, you souls of god have found a way to heal it. that quadraplegic must say that god chose for me to use a joystick and my eyelids to interact with the world for some unknown metaphysical reason. that quadro must say that ‘god made me completely and unequivocably unequal to the rest of humanity despite whatever crap jeus spewed’
the only defensible position that christians have is that god deciedded to make some christians unable to perform the same deeds as other christians. i would like to see the bible reference that supports this. honest.
then again, disregarding jesus’ spewings wouldnt be beyond one of the “christians” on this board
Not at all, FM- God probably won’t mind if they use stem cells to cure themselves of being gay!
I know my arguement is probably morally absurd, but it’s logically sound.
This comment gets me thinking of an interesting topic…
Would religious fundies commit an act of lesser sin to eliminate a greater sin? In comparison, would Xtians promote cloning and stem-cell research if it meant eliminating homosexuality from humanity?
dude christians will most certainly find an obscure reference against modifying the human genome like im sure they did seconds after the annoucement of the fact that scientists discovered that humans have a genome.
phaed- god definetely wont mind!! i agree. he didnt give us a real empirically verifiable bible that specifies otherwise, therefore he cant be surprised if we use the tools that he gave us.
be an ambiguous theist like me and sage, phaed. i know you want to!! no ideas that you have can possible be rejected!
phaed, you most valuable of ILP noobies, it seems as though you have missed out on my atheism/deism thread. (the more valuable, complete explanation is in PoR’s “Final existence of god” and my brain)
you dont have to respond, just make sure that you know my beliefs are equal to yours except for the fact that i still believe the creation of the universe (and time!) was an arbitary manifestation of the desire to harvest selflessness
god never specified anything except for those things that he provided for us in reality. if we accept all scientific and sociologic adnavecment as no less than gods will, then i cant possibly imagine an objection.
id very much enjoy hearing what they might be
My problem with deism is that in practical terms it’s like atheism-meets-Dungeons-&-Dragons. If we have a God who creates the universe, sets the machinery in motion, then flatly ignores us for all eternity without a word of explaination, how is that different from opening the AD&D Deities and Demigods manual and just picking your God out of the book? Deism has no advantages over skepticism, nihilism, existentialsm, and probably a few other isms I’m forgetting. But it does have the disadvantage of just sounding really absurd when you try to explain it to people. What’s to be gained from trading one thing you know isn’t true for another one that you know’s not true either?
I know it often sounds like I weigh in in support of religion, but it only seems that way. My position is that science isn’t mystical and religion isn’t rational- they’re twixt and twain and ne’er the two shall meet. To hammer at religion with logic and rationality doesn’t make a lot of sense to me since it’s neither logical nor rational. As Pascal said, “Reason can decide nothing here.”
[Well, at least reason can’t attack religion head on- it has to tunnel under like a sapper and undermine the walls of the Citadel with attacks on the internal logic of the religion and the literary basis for those beliefs. Any attacks on the validity prima facie are pretty much going to have to use circustantial evidence.]
The only logic of a religion is it’s internal logic; to understand it you have to look at it on it’s own terms. You may have no problem with gays, but the issue to a Christian is whether the Bible proscribes it. If the answer is yes, and you have any respect for the internal logic of the thing, then as a Christian you must oppose homosexuality, too. Common sense, secular humanism, existentialism, utilitarianism- none of those things matters one whit. They’re human conventions whereas the Bible is the word of God! Kant can’t trump God! That’s the Ultimate Authority…to a Christian.
Therein lies the rub- a “good” Christian can’t really disregard the tenets of his religion simply because they’re not fashionable anymore or in line with modern utilitarian philosophy. And most branches of philosophy can’t in good conscience watch religion corrupt the minds of people and perpetuate the Slavery Mentality. As Sartre said, ulitmately confict is irreconcilable. That’s while the world is so fucked up and will stay fucked up.
I suppose that moral and ethical views on homosexuality will always be a matter of an individual’s opinion, but homosexuality and bisexuality are not the creation of humans looking for alternative lifestyles. According to “Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity†by Bruce Bagemihl, many species in nature have been observed as exhibiting homosexual behaviour. In some primate species, males who are denied mating opportunities by stronger, more dominant males or males who are sexually immature will often be seen performing sexual acts to each other. Some may even continue this behaviour long into adulthood.
Homosexual behaviour by both sexes has also been observed in wild and domestic dogs when females are in heat. Homosexual acts occur in countless animal societies, but more interesting is that long-term homosexual bonds exist beyond humanity as well. Male and female homosexual pairs form in numerous primates, mainly chimpanzees and orang-utans and these pairs will “remain faithful” to each other for many years. Male dolphins will also form long lasting unions in which the couple, even though they are part of a larger group, will only perform mating-like, or stimulatory behaviour on each other.
The human population is exploding exponentially destroying everything its path. At the same time the sense of insecurity in western society has seldom been so high although no direct threat exists – in fact it is western society that presents a threat to others. Could it be that homosexuality is nature’s method of population control? Or, more fittingly, could it be that all three types of sexuality are genetically possible, and that there are natural causes that make the one kind of behaviour dominant in personalities?
It may well be that a small society like a clan or village would purge homosexuality, being dependant as they are upon reproduction to produce children for protection in their older days. But a society in an overpopulated world has other means of securing a livelihood. Not least of all could more benevolence be helpful, but this has long been deemed as damaging to markets. Even churches are often benevolent for a reason, instead of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. It is therefore understandable that such people can’t be expected to show benevolence to homosexuals and perhaps reduce the insecurity that could be at least one natural cause of an alternative behaviour.
Shalom
Bob
bob wins
christians, i started this thread to figure out why you adhere to this particular bible babble. clearly you have shown that the only reason you listen to the bible is because the bible said you must listen to the bible.
Future Man decrees- convulse gagagayayaya!!..
…i am now possesed by god. ye must listen to everything i say.
everyone chants The Word of the Lord, Gaymen.
how true. i used to be a christian and i beleve you 100%
I was told from as long as i could remember to:
-trust god, dont worry about life
-listen to the bible, its the one and only truth
-science goes 100% with christianity, there is no flaws in the bible
-dont listen to non-believers, they are under the influence of the devil, he wants your soul
I was fed this for a long time, im only a non-beliver now because i could not simple turn my back on things that were there in front of me
I found errors in the bible>not inerrant>not devinly inspired. a onipotent god would make sure his bible would contain no errors.
In Matthew it tells how judas, after betraying christ, THREW HIS MONEY AT THE PRIESTS, and the hung himself(note he threw his money away!!)
But in Isaih(i think, i dont have my bible with me) it says HE toke his money BOUGHT A FIELD WITH IT and hung himself.
Now in words this is a small error, but in reality these are completly separet actions, in one the preists have his money, But the other Judas has his money and buys a field. How the heck could GOD miss THAT???
Hi folks…
Please help me if you are more experienced than me.
I saw one of my ex-girlfriends on a video chat website and I tried to spoke with her.
But I couldn’t manage to create an account there even if they are telling that making an account is free.
The website is Live Video Chat - Live for Chat
CHRISTIANS HATE GAYS , Because they are afraid to show they are i mean look they were cross necklaces but who knows what they do in bed otgether , i mean seriously , marijuana too i guess , or is it LSD , hmmmmm…
Don’t let some random spammer revive this thread, you crazy bastard. Let’s have this (or one more from you saying “Okey dokey”, if you must) be the end of it.
Would you call these “out of context bible quotes”?
From The Holy Bible New Revised Standard Version.
Leviticus Chap 18 verse 22. You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
I dare that you all read the rest of chap 18 on sexual relationships. Then come back and tell me how much you disagree with and how much you agree with.
it’s really a question of if God is brainwashing Christians,… or is their logic behind God.
If God was wrong here, then God was wrong where else? After all Jesus was God. And would clarify his statements to all that read them. But then again Jesus said, he who has ears, let them hear. Some people only hear what they want to hear.
The answer lies in the Holy Spirit. For the Holy Spirit heals the soul. If you can not feal the Holy Spirit, you must have logical blockers inhibiting you from God.
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Im not christian , and I dont really like gays , all that sneaking about , hankering after other mens arses , with their odd moustaches and tight jeans , I say live and let live , but I can understand why some people feel we should burn gays or at least ban them
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