Use Of Philosophy

Hi All

Time to jump strait in, I know bugger all about philosophy, and have been interested to hear peoples views on the subject.

However, I would like to ask, how people can even learn philosophy it seems to be a complete waste of time.

This is a big reading session but please read if you are interested to know why I think it is a load of time wasting.

People seem to use philosophy to talk about things which are quite meaningless. If a person has a bad life or hates life it is their choice.

People who also explain philosophy to people, they are being manipulative, if a person cant sort their own life out without guidence, or advice, or even talking bout it, then they are being manipulated by the ting trying to help them. Knowing me I have now confused the hell out of you. Sorry.

What I am getting at is, how can people take up philo as a career or even teach it, me myself and others that i know, have tried to kill themselves, and we all hate life, as lots of people in this world, but if people like us can stop to think and sort out own lives out, then anyone could, and believe me, you would have to see us and meet us to know what I am going on about. Between us, we have been through nearly every problem under the sun.

So can someone please tel me the use of philosophy, cause to me it is a complete waste of time, tryint to give someone false impressions in life, and also putting fake images of how their life is better or can be in to their head.

Thanks
Look forward to the replies[/b]
[/quote]

Sure, I’ll explain.

Philosophy only has retrospective importance.

The structures of your very existence from the metaphysical to the sociopolitical are founded upon some body of philosophical principles and fundamentals. All aspects of government and religion were derived from philosophical contemplation, and are now in effect as we live today. In this sense, the only tangible use of philosophy can be seen in its historical application, just like, as an analogy, the benefits of a presedential administration are reaped years after the president is out of office.

Does it matter right here and now, practically, that you and I discuss the mind/body issue? Certainly not. But it does matter when 4.8 million people discuss it over a four century period.

The influence of philosophy as a practical device happens at a larger scale than everyday common “philosophizing.”

I’m gonna have to go with de’trop. If you don’t think philosophy has a purpose, then you’re only living for yourself and your own selfish purposes for the moment.

Ignorance IS bliss. Not necessarily all evil though.

i dont think philosophy has any grand purpose. and perhaps i am indeed selfish and living life for myself (why else should i live for?)

but i enjoy philosophy because its about life - what i think of it, what others think of it, how to act, opinions, thoughts, reality and what not. its seeing what peoples thoughts and the diversity of these thoughts that matter to me.

i cannot imagine life without thinking about it. i often wonder what other people are pondering about (and ponder if these ‘people’ are really people. and then what ‘people’ means anyway etcetcetc.)

it is perhaps self amusement. but like any other interest one would have, is it not for selffufilment, whether you collect stamps or chase after ‘wisdom’ (whatever that is?)

my stand towards philsophising… it is whatever you want outta it. aint no grand transcendental purpose to arrive at some truth.

Ah, but you find yourself suddenly understanding existence. You don’t think because you want to, my dear pocky, you think because you have to.

Do you not find it annoying when people say “you’ve got a lot of time on your hands,” or “your ideas are not practical?” Yes you do, but not because you feel that you have a right to be intelligent and are defending that right, but because other people are slower and assume that you want to sit around bothering yourself about some philosophy, rather than understanding that some are “intelligent” thinkers without having a choice in the matter, and that “philosophy” is the result of their activity.

Slower traffic keep right.

My typical response when entering into an average discussion and/or argument with any given person is “I already thought of that.” Instead of being regarded as an efficient, indifferent, and critical thinker, I am convicted of post hominum grandiosity. A direct and natural consequence of this is the others reaction to my claim that either:

  1. You are right, but incomplete.
  2. You are complete, but wrong.
  3. You are wrong, and incomplete.

We, philosophers(ILP joins hands), can not be held responsible for consequences yielded in the pursuit of truth. One must be prepared for challenge and scrutiny at every corner. One must have an argument to have an opinion. Better yet, reverse that. One must know what is the alternative to what one believes to know what one believes. Then and only then can one argue an opinion. They will know what it is that they are not saying. One must be able to distinguish an opinion and its rival to actually have one.

Philosophy is not rated PG. And philosophers don’t take kindly to stupid people. Anybody that blames you for being smart and practicing philosophy should be flogged, whipped, excommunicated, and purged(thank you, Warrior Monk).

Excellent question. I feel that some people have a goal of survival - to them, they have been foisted upon this earth, and the “why’s” of that are secondary to the mere survival of it.

Others focus on a different aspect of life, namely the “why’s” - why am I here? why are you here? are you here? if we’re here, what are we? etc.

Neither is right or wrong, individuals just have to go their own paths. Some individuals are more concrete thinkers, and the conceptual basis of “philosophizing” is untenable. Others are excited more by gleaning the concepts from the “actual” than encountering “the actual” itself.

On another note, though, I believe that philosophy classes (especially) teach structured thinking, clear speaking (unlike my statements above, sorry!), open-mindedness, and the ability to communicate concepts clearly without having the concrete available. These are all handy skills for jobs and life in general, imho.

Excellent post, bluqueen.

maybe not. but the journey seems to be enough, for me anyways. (psst…check out the girl from singapore using southern twang…)

bluegreen wrote:

there’s a hell of a lot of ppl on the earth and to neatly categorize them into a two categories is rather simple, wouldn’t you agree? i think everyone seeks the same basic goal: love. how we go about to get this is where the differences come in. don’t forget that philosophy means ‘love wisdom’ and philosophers are simply chasing after their love; wisdom. no different from chasing after a mate, only philosophers have a 3 page thread on masterbation as a result.

Can you actually ‘teach’ someone all abt philosophy?
Can you get better at it? would you get guidance and advice?
Personally speaking, I don’t have to learn, but I find my self wanting to ! I find my self craving to read anything about philosophy, i feel better and more complete aftet learning something new or even reading a post here in ILP. I dont know why or when exactly I started to feel this way. but I do know that I have so much to learn and not sure if I can actually do it :confused: its like I’ve been in a coma all my life and just snapped out of it ! only to find that I missed out on so much…
is it too late ??

The answer is in the question.

By asking “what is the purpose of philosophy,” then you already have your answer. “What?” IS the purpose of philosophy.

Interesting…

I would say that the study and practise of most philosophy has no use whatsoever and that the hoi polloi would be best excluded from it.
There is but one branch of philosophy that does have practical use and that is morals and morality. However, even within the realm of morals there is much that is worthless.

Those who are really interested in making progress in this life, making real progress, and real use of their time will eventually seek out the entrance to the Painted Porch.

But in order to reach this point you will have to undergo a serious of extremely difficult tests. Most would-be philosophers fail at the first hurdle. Only very few ever arrive.

Philosophy is the apex of the sciences. While not being better than any of the others, it includes them all, trying to weave together all knowledge and experience into a workable solution.

We all question our existence at some point. To be philosophical entails a very direct desire to KNOW, and philosophy provides a solid foundation from which to start.

It is most importantly about method, ensuring that any answers you do get are true and valid. It attempts to be a yardstick of good sense, in a world where everybody is rushing headlong into oblivion.

A forum such as this is merely a place to test ideas, to share insight, and to learn from others. And as de’trop said, it’s a 400 year long conversation, each of us adding a sentence here or there.

The momentum is building, never before have so many had so much to draw from and share. Only by doing that can we attain our (philosopher’s)stones, and create a golden age of humanity.

And besides, idleness becomes me :wink:

Hail epictete

your posts intrigue me, I would be very interested to hear you general thoughts on morality and how you try to live a moral life.

Philosophy is the most general of sciences. It asks the basic questions like “why am i here”, “what is the good”. One reason philosophy seems useless is that once it discovers something truly specific it spins it off as a new science. Bertrand Russell (who was a philosopher as well as a mathematician first enumerated this). Philosophy, therefore, is the progenitor of the sciences.

Philosophy uses reason as it’s criteria. It does not sway to the beat of the masses, nor bend to the will of authority, nor cede to the manipulation of others. Throughout the millennia, it has been philosophy which has kept the immortal beacon bearing men’s highest hopes from being extinguished.

Sometimes the seemingly meaningless things are the basic building blocks which should not be skipped. What should be important in a man’s life? Philosophy asks that question too.

Lifeisforareason,
it is important to differentiate between false impressions in life and trying to give people false impressions in life. False impressions are given by all of us unintentionally. Your statement appears to be saying that philosophy INTENTIONALLY give false impressions to others about life. This is not so. Furthermore, philosophers are, in my opinion, the most open minded individuals when it comes to be criticized or shown to be wrong. Don’t get me wrong, many philosophers are still your usual type of person who will argue for the sake of arguing, or only to save themselves from admitting wrong - but those who are open minded and don’t mind being shown to be wrong are still more than any other field I have ever encountered. Same goes for the fake images you mention. So what is it that philosophers do?

In my opinion, philosophers should listen to evidence and propose ideas they have. The key word is ‘propose’. Just as any serious ethical philosopher will tell you that no ethical philosopher has the right to tell you how to live, they can merely suggest ideas and options.

Philosophy seems to talk about what is meaningless, for the reason that (in my opinion) people are too busy to ask or talk about those questions. Someone working 9-5 five days a week with a husband, kids, friends, and possibly some kind of hobby (other than philosophy) really doesn’t have the time or energy to delve into the inner workings of everyday life.

I think philosophy is important on many different levels. I don’t agree with de’trop that philosophy ONLY has retrospective importance. Many philosophies that I have read or thought of myself have helped me to see things clearer in the future, helped me to make choices that I would not have made if without knowing philosophy. Moreover, as de’trop said, philosophy contains the foundational principles of all topics. It is in a sense the mother of all knowledge. Though, as kids over step their parents in knowledge and ability, philosophy’s offspring have gone above and beyond philosophy in many areas. Nevertheless, there is wisdom in mothers that is always depended upon and sought in times of great questioning or crisis, just as all forms of knowledge depend on philosophy for their grandest implications and questions.

I don’t agree with Nientilin, that someone who thinks philosophy doesn’t have a purpose is living for their own selfish purposes. I’m actually confused how that follows, logically that is. I may think that philosophy doesn’t have a purpose (although I do think it does) and still live my life for very altruistic reasons and ends. Lastly, I don’t agree that ignorance is bliss - I won’t get into this because I already have in numerous posts and at great lengths.

De’trop stated:

Although I agree, people nevertheless do hold us responsible for the consequences of our pursuits of truth. I hear it all the time in university, in fact I have said it myself. Which is why, if I ever write a book on philosophy I will start the introduction with “this book is never to become mandatory reading anywhere or for any purpose. The only way this book should ever be opened is because someone chose to without any outside coercion” or something to that effect. On the same note, Plato says that we can’t get mad at someone for telling the truth. I couldn’t agree more, but again, we do it all the time. In fact, I think people are more forgiving of lies than they are of hearing horrible truths. As De’trop stated, philosophy is not rated PG.

good post bluqueen

Trix,
lol. I love this girl’s sense of humour. Trix stated:

So trix, let me get this straight. bluqueen is being rather simple by categorizing the population of the world into two, so you you solve the problem by categorize the population of the world into one?

Undisclosed,
I think you bring up an important issue. I find that many people are studying something as a means to another end. For example, many study business not because business excites them, but because they are excited by money which they have linked with business. Which causes them to think that if they want money, they HAVE to learn business. Most philosophy students, however, study philosophy because they want to. Philosophy is an end in itself. Money, work, or anything else that comes from it is a by-product.

Epictete,
I agree with you that many ethical or moral notions are worthless, but I don’t agree that ethics or morality is the only branch of philosophy with any practical use. Without wanting to get too deep into the topic, I will mention the first (off the top of my head) answer of LOGIC. In fact, logic, in my opinion is much more practical then ethics. And it’s much less changed and scrutinized. Moreover, I would include ALL aspects of philosophy as practical, it all depends on how you understand, interpret, and APPLY the knowledge you gain. For example, many people I know never talk about their major outside of school. Some of these people are studying to be doctors, lawyers, business man, engineers, architects - and yet when it comes to anything but school the topic never arises. In my opinion, that topic is not very practical for their own life. The only pragmatic side to it is that it will bring them money one day. Philosophy however, in my experience, is carried along everywhere one goes. I apply my philosophy to my life as often as I can, in fact my philosophy always arises out of practical situations which I delve deeper into, find a philosophy, and the next time I am in the situation I do what my philosophy has taught me.

What’s your take?

Undisclosed said:

The reason why you find yourself craving more insights is because you have a NEED for knowledge. It is one of the Higher Needs that are a part of the Human Experience. Human beings actually experience a pleasure-reward when they learn something new and “interesting.” They would not seek knowledge if they did not. Conversely, being “confused” is painful. Those who have experienced both Higher Need satisfaction and Primary Need satisfaction often find the pleasure attending Higher Need satisfaction to be so satisfying, they are often willing to forego Primary Need satisfaction in order to experience it. Philosophers, generally, are addicted to this form of pleasure.

It really starts to get exciting when you are able to see how all of the different topics of philosophy are related to each other on a fundamental level…

Gabriel
wearesaved.org

[/quote]

I can agree with some of the other quotes that philosophy is a powerful force leading men to cause specific events throughout time.
But, I want to stress that philiosophy is very important.

[b]EVERYBODY NEEDS PHILOSOPHY

[/b] PHILOSOPHY DEALS WITH SUBJECT MATTER THAT IS RELEVANT TO YOUR EVERYDAY LIFE.

You need to live. You must survive. You should value your own life. Your life has tremendous potential, and if you do not want to hear that you have to work for things etc… that is to bad because that is the way it is by physical law. Working and being successful by your own mearsurements is extremely rewarding so life is worth the effort.
It is so important for you to have the right tools to live and that is what philosophy provides. As intelligent beings we need to answer these two basic questions: Where am I? and What should I do?
The questions may seem arbitrary but if you think about it, this what you are really doing in life every day (usually subconsiously). Now there are two kinds of people out there who would answer these questions differently. Those who would look to others for the answer, lets say a professor, a doctor, a freind or even a philosopher and those who trust their own senses and are willing to think for themselves.
I am an objevtivist, I know that I can trust my senses and develop my own concepts that are true.

You are probably very smart so do not waste it. Use your mind to serve your own self-interest and life will be great.

Hello Gabriel,

I like what you said here. I am interested to know what you mean by the fundamental relationship of the different subdividisions in philisophy (metaphysics, epistemology, ethics etc…).

GabrielS.A.V.E.D. ,

thanks for what you wrote and the link you posted. I am defenately looking forward to expand my knowledge, hopefully will reach the level you mentioned.

life is like a gamble game, you make choices that you are not sure.

Thus, philosophy is like the discussions on which horse to buy…

do u buy this explanation?