awareness - illusion vs. reality

As I have come to understand the nature of the world in which we live, I have come to better understand the nature of awareness, and vice versa. It seems to me that reality is a varitable smorgasbord of experiences, not one of which could be said to effect any two people the exact same way. The predominant quality of percieved reality is change, the one thing that everything experiences regardless of its nature. It could be said that the very appearance of the illusion of the world isn’t due to the nature of the world itself so much as due to our selective experience of the various aspects of life. If a tree fell in the woods and noone/nothing was around to hear it, would it make a sound? The answer is obvious in that it takes an ear to hear, so no sound could be made. However the reverberating wave made by the crash of the tree as it fell would still have occured even though it may never reach the surface of an ear drum to be translated ito a sound. Things change according to the way in which they affect and are thus affected by other things around them. So whenever someone tries to define reality as what they are experiencing at any given moment they are actually mistakin. Reality is something far from any single mortals percpective. It takes everyone everywhere to get close to seeing the true reality. And even then with the passage of mind in and out of this temporal state, new minds coming in through birth and old minds passing out through death, what might be percieved by the whole world at any given time is liable to change.

This leads me to my first point. I dont believe mind is relegated to this sphere of existence… That is to say, i dont believe the brain is necessary in order for mind to exist or even percieve this world. Mind instead takes on specific personalised characteristics when installed within the limited confines of the material brain, and needs must experince life in order to eventually discover its own individual nature in time-space. (That is why i believe there is life at the moment of conception.) Pre-incarnate mind is closer to the source of being than incarnate mind. Within that formal world of the unconcious, reality is more appearent. Things appear more as they actually are, their purpose and meaning more easily interprated, the essence of things not so concealed by the power of matteral evolution. For every individual existential “reality” in this world, a formal ideal “reality” exists within the world of (unconcious; conciousness generally refering to the state of mind during waking incarnation) mind.

The percieved cosmic illusion is only how limmited awarenes is able to concieve of the cosmic reality. Mind takes on supra-conciousness within the cosmic conglomerate. I mean to say that the macrocosm is aware on a supra-personal level, and is concious of itself just as humanity is. Idividual mind is the working part of a universal whole that distinguishes itself and its purpose or funtion in time. Just as an human must learn to opperate each individual muscle before complete bodily synchopation is ever actually achieved. Each limb must learn its function and its role in the nody as it relates and cooperats with every other limb. The supra conciousness realizes itself more as each individual reality becomes more developed in its role and is able to better coordinate its efforts in the cosmic community of life. As life evolves and individual mind transcends to become more in concert with the will of macrocosmic mind (monad), existential maturation occurs on a universal level and the completion of being nears perfection.

So in order to have a sense of reality one must be able to see the innerconnection of all things within the mind of God (the absolute). Trying to make sense of being without aknowledging this fundamental symbioses is like trying to find your way in the desert without a compass or a map.

Just as an human must learn to opperate each individual muscle before complete bodily SYNCRONIZATION is ever actually achieved. Each limb must learn its function and its role in the BODY as it relates and cooperats with every other limb.

this is what i meant to say…

This sounds very Holistic, which is fine with me, it coincides quite nicely with my brand of Skepticism.

By that I mean, it could pose a means of one day ‘knowing’… but until that day arrives, a transcendent mind, and even the concept of completion of being doesn’t follow from any tools the mind itself provides in order for us to judge.

Im confused… What leads you to your first point? Why did you make your first point? What reason do you have for believing that the mind is not relegated to this sphere of existance? And what reason do you have for believing the rest of what you say…?

“Trying to make sense of being without aknowledging this fundamental symbioses is like trying to find your way in the desert without a compass or a map.”

I think ive made sense of being… and unless I misunderstand you, I didnt aknowledge any such thing.

What led me to my first point was the sentence of tha last paragraph, of new sould coming into this world and onld souls leaving. I have read a few posts in this and other forums where people refered to the soul as if it were merely a bio-electric charge within the brain and without the brain the soul wouldn’t exist. The reason i have for believeing that mind is not relegated to this sphere of existence i explained within the above post to some extent. Where did i get my information? From many sources, must studies are still extant, im learning all the time. The idea i put forth in the above is one of the pattern with nature. The lotus plant is a great symbol for this idea. Within the seed of a lotus plant , if it where cut in twain and one were to examine the inside of the seed, one would see quite literali within the seed an image of what the plant will look like when its full grown… In the same way one can see the pattern of creation with nature, and can safley conclude “as above so below”. What ever is in this world was real in the worlds above first". Why do i believe this, because nothing else means anything(makes sense. Maybe you have made sense of being, maybe you have your own answer for the meaning of life. Maybe im wrong. Maybe not…

Mind as psychological phenomenon is actually the reality of thought, aka the subjective state. The physical brain is necessary for that, because the physical brain registers experience which responds as thought. The word ‘mind’ can also point to a field of awareness. The physical universe (inc brain) is in and of that field.

Then you are an idiot.

Dr., Dr.,

Your response to the original poster, is a fallacy. It’s not acceptable in debate. The correct and most popular attack on assertion is “nonsense”. You challenge the assertion, instead of attacking the asserter. Behave yourself, you idiot! : )

It is like saying that without a baseball the game of baseball does exist.

The mind opperates within the brain. Without the brain the mind cannot exist. Without a brain the mind can never come to be.

EZ$

I am aware of logic and it’s aplication.
But if you think all assertions and positions are created equal then you too, probably swim in the shallow end of the gene pool.

Dr.,

If memory serves, forum rules state that ad-hominems are a no-no. Personal attack is the weapon of choice of fools. Try to behave. We don’t want to have to tell your mommy. : )

this is what i meant to say…
[/quote]

an illusion is an erroneous perception of reality; an erroneous concept of belief; illusionism in art. reality is; the quality or state of being actual or true; the totality of all things possessing actuality,existence,or essence.perceptual illusion; cases which we apprehend by sensation does not correspond with the way things really are.Thus, for example,the apparent discontinuity between the portions of a spoon in and out of a glass of water is a visual illusion cased by the different indices of refraction of water and air. Base Commutation;a rule of replacement of the forms:(p V q)=(q V p)
(p . q)=(q . p)

example: either “spot is brown or tabby is white” is equivalent to " either tabby is white or spot is brown"
disfunction and conjunction is a significant feature of propositional calculus. association; arule of replacement of the forms:
[p V (q V r)]=[ (p V q) V r]
[p . ( q . r)]=[ (p . q) . r]
example:" harold is over 21, and so are jane and kelly." is equivalent to
harold and jane are 21,and so is kelly." the associativity can be demonstrated by truth table analysis.

I must say im surprised to so many people disagree with me on this point. THis concept of mind existing regardless of a brain is not something i came up with. Christians believe in life after death, that the mind enters into a another plane of existence after brain activity in this world is kaput. Hindu’s believe in the passage of the mind from one incarnation to another, which means the mind must exist in and of itself outside the brain, but only incarnates itself through the brain in order to have affect on the this world through body. Hermetic thought Is very clear in the understanding that intelligence and mind exist not only for humans through the brain but for every planet and or celestial body in the universe (Celestial intelligences if you will), And that these intelligeces existed before their celestial counterparts.

mind - The principle of intelligence; the spirit of consciousness regarded as an aspect of reali

intelligence.
in·tel·li·gence Audio pronunciation of “intelligence” ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-tl-jns)
n.

1. 1. The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge.
   2. The faculty of thought and reason.
   3. Superior powers of mind. See Synonyms at mind.
2. An intelligent, incorporeal being, especially an angel.

Seeing as an incorporeal being has no physical body it has no brain, but im sure they have minds of their own.

The corporeal brain is only the part of the body that gives access to incorporeal mind and spirit, so that mind and spirit might interact with the corporeal world. Perhaps your philosophy doesnt take in to account the spirit world and the world of the mind. or incorporeal reality all together.

metaphysics.
met·a·phys·ic Audio pronunciation of “metaphysics” ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mt-fzk)
n.

1. 1. Metaphysics.
   2. A system of metaphysics.
2. An underlying philosophical or theoretical principle: a belief in luck, the metaphysic of the gambler.

[Middle English methaphisik, metaphisik. See metaphysics.]

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Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

met·a·phys·ics Audio pronunciation of “metaphysics” ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mt-fzks)
n.

1. (used with a sing. verb) Philosophy. The branch of philosophy that examines the nature of reality, including the relationship between mind and matter, substance and attribute, fact and value.
2. (used with a pl. verb) The theoretical or first principles of a particular discipline: the metaphysics of law.
3. (used with a sing. verb) A priori speculation upon questions that are unanswerable to scientific observation, analysis, or experiment.
4. (used with a sing. verb) Excessively subtle or recondite reasoning.

[From pl. of Middle English methaphisik, from Medieval Latin metaphysica, from Medieval Greek (ta) metaphusika, from Greek (Ta) meta (ta) phusika, (the works) after the Physics, the title of Aristotle’s treatise on first principles (so called because it followed his work on physics) : meta, after; see meta- + phusika, physics; see physics.]

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Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

metaphysics

n : the philosophical study of being and knowing

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

metaphysics

metaphysics: in CancerWEB’s On-line Medical Dictionary

Source: On-line Medical Dictionary, © 1997-98 Academic Medical Publishing & CancerWEB

I suppose this is a metaphysical concept, and if your not studied in metaphysics it must be hard to assimilate or even comprehend.

Definitions are like a**holes, everyone’s got one.

I don’t see any possible reason to believe you could experience nature and matter without a physical body, and I personally believe you should develop a better line of reasoning than “other people do it, so why can’t I?”

Could you please describe something that wasn’t made of atoms that you “sensed” lately?

[quote=“peesaw”]
I must say im surprised to so many people disagree

     2. The faculty of thought and reason.

In your topic you have stated a case: illusion V reality. There is no way that distinction or a malfunction or distorsion of reality can be consumated and brought forth as a case for what it isn’t. If I am not mistaken you are asserting illusion as a reality, how does that come about?

Illusion is most definitely a reality.

peesaw

when you say mind, i call it soul.

But even if it comes after death without a brain the mind can never come to be.

EZ$

I don’t see any possible reason to believe you could experience nature and matter without a physical body, and I personally believe you should develop a better line of reasoning than “other people do it, so why can’t I?”

for every matterial thing there is thought-form which is basically the blueprint on which its matterial couterpart is the construct. The energy which occupies any space in time is on the quantum level the same as the energy in any other space at any other time. That is to say the perception of differnece in the time space continuum isan illusion, but in fact all different times and different spaces exist within the same space at the same time. Tiime-space is an aspect of our awareness, not vice versa. The dis-incarnate soul can experience the thought-form of the matterial reality. What the dis-incarnate mind experinces is like a dream state.

I only mentioned the various traditions in the above in order to show that the idea was not original to my own paradigme. I think that greater truths (however esoteric) can be found within the structure of various traditions. And the more traditions the idea occurs within the more likely the idea is true.

Could you please describe something that wasn’t made of atoms that you “sensed” lately?

Is what I sense in my dreams made of atoms?

Main Entry: MIND

Part of Speech: noun 1
Definition: intelligence
Synonyms: apperception, attention, brain, brainpower, brains, capacity, cognizance, conception, consciousness, creativity, faculty, function, genius, gray matter, head, imagination, ingenuity, instinct, intellect, intellectual, intellectuality, intuition, judgment, lucidity, marbles, mentality, observation, perception, percipience, power,

The word MIND derived from old english GEMYND, from latin MENT-, from greek MENOS - which means spirit.

PSYCHE

ratiocination, reason, reasoning, regard, sanity, sense, soul, soundness, spirit, talent, thinkbox, thinker, thought, understanding, wisdom, wits
Source: Roget’s New Millenniumâ„¢ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

and

PSY_CHE Audio pronunciation of “psyche” ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sk)
n.

1. The spirit or soul.
2. Psychiatry. The mind functioning as the center of thought, emotion, and behavior and consciously or unconsciously adjusting or mediating the body’s responses to the social and physical environment.

[Latin PSYCHE, “from” Greek PSUKHE, “SOUL”. See bhes- in
Indo-European Roots.]

So basically the word psyche is a synonym for the word mind. They are generally understand to mean the same theing. The word psyche is derived from the greek psukhe, which means soul. And the word mind is eventually derived from the greek word MENOS- which means literali SPIRIT.

Yes.
Dreams are subconcious backfiring in the absense of concious awareness.
Neurochemical reactions, purely physical.