Do You Trust Your Senses?

empiricism seems to get a pretty bad rap in much of historical, academic, and colloquial (“armchair”) philosophy.

we are told that we cannot trust what our senses tell us, that what we experience is not “true reality”, that we could be “brains in a vat”, that “all is illusion”, etc. but when it comes down to it, most of us (i would, in fact, wager all of us) use, and indeed MUST use, our senses daily in order to survive. in regular life, in our own experiences, we have no reason to distrust our senses. if we did have such a reason, we would never drive a car; we would never eat or drink anything; we would never even move, for fear that we cannot trust that the floor we see below our feet is indeed solid and real.

so, there is a divide between what philosophically we are told about empiricism, and what entails from our experiences in daily living.

yes, there are occasionally times where we go “wow, that wasnt what i thought it was at all”, where we realise that our senses “deceived” us-- in truth, however, our senses CANNOT DECEIVE US: only WE, in our interpretation of our senses, can deceive, i.e. arrive at false conclusions. sensation cannot lie, but perception can.

whatever your senses tell you is the case, IS the case-- i.e., it is the case that your senses tell you so, i.e. it is the case that you are having an experience of sensation such as your senses tell you… in otherwords, it is never the case that you are NOT having the experience of sensation that your senses tell you you are having.

however, of course, INTREPRETING this experience can be where problems arise.

our estimations and interpretations of our experiences can be mistaken; we can think that we see one thing, when in fact it is something else… but, does this really happen to you frequently? how often do you stop and say “well that estimation of that experience is clearly wrong!” for myself, i do not have this experience often… and that leads to the next point, that in order to understand that our estimation of an experience is incorrect, we need to rely on experience itself!

does this entail contradiction? when we say “i had experience X, but now i realise that my understanding of X at the time was wrong, and now i know differently” we are USING EXPERIENCE ITSELF, new experiences, to re-evaluate the previous ones in a more “truthful” light…

…so, of course it seems circular, using experience to justify experience. and if we are talking about complete and irrefutable justification, then yes, it is circular. however, do we really need this complete justification??

certainly, we never act in real life from a position of absolute justification or knowledge; nor do we typically feel that our actions, taken from such a perspective of limited justification, are unjustified; nor, even, do we typically re-evaluate the experience after the fact and say “my justification was wrong” (although this does occasionally happen).

given:
A) it seems that we NEVER act from absolute justification
B) this seems typically not to bother us in the least, and
C) it seems IMPOSSIBLE to even be able to act with absolute justification,

then why does much of traditional and modern philosophy tell us that we should “distrust” our senses to one degree or another? why, given A, B and C, should we accept extreme skepticism which is argued for, in greater or lesser degrees, by a large part of philosophical thought?

if A, B and C entail, and further if we have little or no reason in our own lives to think “my senses are wrong all, or even most, of the time”, then why does anyone actually think, believe or argue such ideas as “brains in vats” or “the Matrix”? isnt the very idea of extreme skepticism, of the rejection of empiricism as a justification for belief, contradictory with itself?

in otherwords: distrusting our sense experiences seems to contradict our sense experiences— is not this contradiction therefore enough reason to NOT distrust our sense experiences?

The reason? Metaphysical lust.

Too great a desire for certainty invites a vicious circle. Here’s the supposed tradeoff. It is believed by the metaphysician that empiricism produces probability but not certainty. Metaphysics seems to provide certainty. These are all misunderstandings.

Irrefutability is not certainty. And probability cannot be arrived at by induction.

It’s a false dichotomy to begin with.

Probabilities can be arrived at only when we know all the possible outcomes. To arrive at the odds of winning a lottery, we have to know how many chances there are, and how many players. Probabilities cannot be arrived at for an unlimited set of numbers. Our experience is like that - we don’t know all the possibilities. The sense-trusting empiricist cannot figure the odds that “running into this stone wall at eighty miles per hour will kill me”. We can only look back to previous experience. This does not produce a strict probability. It’s not inductive “reasoning”. We can only say “this sometimes kills”, and take our best guess. Our knowledge is incomplete.

So, we have the choice of fearing a collision with the wall, and fearing the uncertainty about it. So, we can trade that uncertainty for irrefutability, and put it in God’s hands, for instance. This produces a stronger feeling of certainty - there’s eternal bliss on the other side of this event, for the faithful. Just substitute “strap-on bomb” and “Allah” here, to flesh out the example. Christians think the example is rather quaint, while objecting that atheists think Christians are rather quaint.

And the nontheist metaphysician? Same deal. They want to know. They want irrefutable knowledge. Which they have, I hope. They want to be able to deduce from irrefutable premises. Which are easily had. But none of them appeal to the senses. They wish to deduce premises that do appeal to the senses. “This is a cat”. They wish to make irrefutable statements. Because they believe that the statement is the thing. They simply confound “sentence” with “statement”. I have found this to be among the most difficult of confusions to clear up.

But not because the idea is inherently difficult. It’s because the lust is so strong. It started before we realised that time is a dimension. Many still do not get this, because statements stand still, even if the world does not. I get a lot of heat for being a semanticist. I am, due to this very fact.

But sentences are statements…

And yes, OP, I trust my senses insofar as I have my mental health. Psychotics should not trust their senses. Bad things would happen.

No, they are not.

“How does my hair look?” is not a statement, for instance.

That is a question that you have quoted.

But here is your statement: X is not a statement.

In your case, you are using a negative statement, not a sentence, not coincidentally.

I don’t want to hijack the thread. Maybe I’ll make a new one to answer your question. It’s Logic 101, basically. You could look it up, I am sure.

Then you failed to pass Logic 101. By the way…

“No, they are not.” = Statement.

a sentence is a meaningful string of 2 or more words, obeying the rules of grammar.

a statement is a type of sentence, i.e. a subset of the group sentences.

all statements are sentences, but not all sentences are statements.

can we move on, now?

Sure, you people go ahead. I will stay here in the same spot believing all sentences are statements.

The purpose of all sentences are to describe reality, via the senses. Thus, in effect, sentences are statements about reality-itself.

Even if I say “LOL” or use an emoticon :laughing: I am stating something; I am making a point.

grammatically, linguistically (open an English text if you will), statements are a certain formalized type of sentence.

the purpose of sentences is to create a meaning, to point to concepts. this purpose or meaning need not necessarily be sensory. sentences can also represent logic, or pure abstraction, or emotion.

language is symbol manipulation, with the implicit understanding that the symbols form meaningful strings (sentences) following establishes rules (gammar) in order that the meaning therein be successfully transmitted. strings of symbols (even if the symbols themselves are grammatical or meaningful) that do not follow grammar, are not considered sentences, EVEN IF the reader derives some meaning from experiencing the string.

of course, it tends to become arbitrary at some point. no one is arguing this, however, at least i dont think so.

if you just define statement as “any utterance, verbally or written”, then yes, youre right. but that is not the modern-language, grammatical meaning of “statement”; i assumed that this discussion would center around common, accepted and formalized/universal principles of language, and not your own personal definitions…

In fact, 3x, most logicians would go farther, that there is no sentence that is a statement, logically. Statements are contained in some sentences, but are never the sentence itself. In many famous logic texts, this can be confusing. But it isn’t, at bottom.

“I am feeling ill” and “I am not feeling well” contain the same statement, despite that they are two different sentences.

But again, this is not your central point, I realise.

I trust my senses.

That said, there are reasons to retain a degree of skeptism; i mean, what we see is largely determined by what we are interested in - but what is there is not limited to that. How we see also determines what we see, so there are limits to what we can “know” through our senses.

I don’t think metaphysics necessarily deals in certainty, i think an honest metaphysician is one who admits that s/he is ultimately just speculating - but then, that should be true of the empiricist as well, tho perhaps to a lesser degree, depending on his or her conclusions.

I think matrix style scenarios can be interesting thought expiriments, but it’s safe to dismiss them as being so unlikely as to be, for practical purposes, untrue. That’s a leap of faith, but a small one.

However, there are all sorts of people, including atheists, who operate under the assumption that they have woken up to truths about reality that can’t be justified through purely empirical means - we’re all metaphysicians in that respect. I think distrust of the senses goes beyond just metaphysical lust, i think it’s also just a sort of basic recognition that we are finite beings and our knowledge of reality is also finite.

I don’t think it’s such a great scourge to philosophy, in any case.

Okay - just find one.

No, we’re not.

Me, on those occasions i indulge my metaphysical lust - and i think most contemporary academic metaphysicians working in philosophy departments

Then how do you justify trusting your senses?

I’ll take your word on yourself. And I don’t read the journals anymore, but I haven’t seen any evidence of your second claim. The evidence I have seen is to the contrary. Most metaphysicians I have read in the past few years rely on a sort of mathematical rationalism. They base their speculations on mathematical certainty.

Again, though, I don’t keep up like I used to. If you know of a useful link in this regard, I would be grateful.

Faith is not synonymous with or necessarily dependent upon metaphysics. Senses are physical. Metaphysics claims that nonphysical entities (like numbers, for instance) can produce empirical knowledge.

Point taken - however, they are both forms of non-empirical practical certainty.

You might try any of the articles written by some of the metaphysicians at MIT - theyre a little dry, of course, but these are not people who believe they are dealing in absolute truths or anything of the sort . . . it’s mostly just exploring things like the nature of shapes and color and identity and so forth . . .

No. Faith in the senses does not necessarily imply a belief in certainty, any more than faith in a certain lure necessitates catching a fish. But when you’re hungry, you take your best shot.

Thanks for the tip. I’ll try to look some up.

One way in which sense authenticity is proven is when many different senses all come to the same conclusion.

Our senses are at least sufficient enough to succeed in the tasks of our lives.
We understand the world enough that we are able to interact with it, predict it, and survive through it.

Besides us being able to agree with eachother about perception, other species can also precieve what we precieve.
All of this helps confirm a certain unanimous sense of the world.

I remember when I was at college: there were those that trusted other’s judgement calls, but I was in the group that trusted our own - we found the former group very odd for not trusting in themselves, for if one cannot trust their own judgement they’d be open to manipulation…

:-k

by senses, i presume you mean the traditional five, and yes i do trust them, but only for very practical and everyday purposes - they are far too limited for true philosophical reflection

for that, i have a 6th, and perhaps even a 7th sense which subsume, blend, and transcend the other five

but what am i even talking about? the internal and direct apprehension of eternity

but what is that? it is seeing through our deepest illusion

and what is that? the self, and multiplicity itself

what? nevermind :laughing: :arrow_right: