How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

This is the main board for discussing philosophy - formal, informal and in between.

Moderator: Only_Humean

Forum rules
Forum Philosophy

How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby nameta9 » Tue May 24, 2011 10:25 am

How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

The three basic principles "1) P = P" "2) P <> not P" "3) Every event has a cause" have been the Three Lies that have imprisoned the mind of Western Civilization since the time of Parmenides. Those ancient philosophers are still laughing at us, in their eternity, playing with ever new universes, new mind structures invented, new sense organs, new contraptions that are used to think and experience, but these contraptions are planet size machines with so many moving parts, so many emotional and sensory states, they explore all states between extreme pain to extreme pleasure, and all mixtures, a linear combination of these 2 items into other items, in a never ending array of new experiences. An infinite recursion into new items, new delimitations, new states of states as in the same relationship an emotion has to sense organs, so has an item A to emotions, and hence the same an item B to A, for infinity, as in the limits of functions in mathematical analysis.


1) Principle of Identity: P = P. P is P ? What is "is" ? How can anything possibly be itself ? How can anything persist in time or space, no matter how small the interval ? Impossible, this principle is insanity, this principle is "false" if any principle has ever been false, nothing is equal to itself no matter how hard you try, it is totally impossible, and not of this world (in fact philosophers were talking about another world, they have a secret message hidden that goes by, "take everything we say and the truth is the exact opposite" but only a few chosen people have been able to see through this).

2) Principle of Non Contradiction: P <> not P, means Nothing can be both True and False (wondering ... at the same time and in the same point in space ?!?, or is that a metaphysical - platonic space where time and space don't exist, hmm...another insane and impossible metaphysical problem that has popped into my mind). But this principle is not true, everything is both true and false and all the intermediate values (between 1 and 0) the real world expresses itself through. The principle of non contradiction is false, it is one of the most false statements in the universe (since there are degrees of falsness, it is a linear function, an analog function, it is not a digital 1 or 0). The real statement should be P = not P. How insane can you get ? How is it even conceivable and possible that P isn't also not P ? How can you not see that P is everything you want it to be, even its opposite, especially its opposite since it can exist only by comparing itself and expressing itself through its opposite. The "Principle of Non Contradiction" is false (and by the way is true exactly because it is false, in an infinite recursion of the mind crashing its puny mental "logical" computer program).

3) Nothing happens without a reason. Another totally false statement, absolutely insane, since everything occurs without reason, everything is an event without a cause (and can you tell me what is the event and what is the cause, or is it the other way around, and do these events go from - infinite time to + infinite time (and space?!?!, or somewhere else, in some other fake, metaphysical box ?!?). The real statement should have been "Everything is Completely and Totally Unrelated to Everything or Anything Else", it is completely independent from everything else, it is infinitely distant from any other item, entity, or delimitation the mind can conceive. Obviously the "size" of these entities becomes vanishingly small as they cannot have any extension of any constituent parts, since then they would be related to something, but this may also be a linear function, an analog situation.

Anyways, I could go on, how I love to demolish all of our certainties, at least demolish them before the world (which remember, is your enemy) will demolish them for you and before you, but you can play ahead of time, and fool god. There is no safe place, no safe logic you can use, no absolutes, no certainty, beware. But just take all of the above and assign as true the opposite of it (or is that the opposite of the opposite but at a higher relationship ?!? hmm... another infinite recursion, another Impossible Metaphysical Problem that popped into my mind).
nameta9
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1888
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby rackedrick » Tue May 24, 2011 11:54 am

I see the world a being entirely mental. There is no such thing as truth. All that I can imagine is simply emotion. Truth is simply a state of the mind where the mind sees that something must be a certain way because it thinks that it can’t be any other way. So actually if someone believes that it is the case that something is a certain way this is truth. So if someone believes that a=a that is true. There is my truth and there is your truth.
The highest form of free will is acting upon what you believe you should do.- Me
Fear is the greatest driving force for success.- Me
I’m forging myself in the fires of despair. To harden myself, to make myself stronger.-Me
What’s the point of doing something if it doesn't matter to you?- Me
"When you want to breathe as bad as you want to succeed then you'll be successful."
We have to do the best we can. This is our sacred human responsibility. -Albert Einstein
Make the most of yourself, for that is all there is of you. - Emerson
rackedrick
 
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:11 am

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby nameta9 » Tue May 24, 2011 5:36 pm

From:

http://kunstler.com/blog/2011/05/get-real.html

They say:

"Dude, give it up. Your wasting your f------g time.
I'm going out on a limb and speak for everybody here: We think you are a crank, and perhaps mentally unbalanced.
My advice to you: get a blue collar job where you actually have to do physical labor, which would go a long way in dispelling you of your bullshit philophys."

and

"Maybe that wouldn't hurt, Marlin - but I suggest our old Spider needs to get laid - a lot!
Honestly, he as much as said that last week. There's somebody for everybody, Spider.
Have you ever tried computer dating?"


I answer:


Automated Modified Mind Generator

These are supercomputers that generate 10^20 modified minds a second, each mind being infinitely different from the previous and all others, each mind experiencing wildy different worlds and lives and pains/pleasures/and many others, way beyond anything we can possibly imagine. And we have planets that are completely occupied by trillions of these machines, each one generating a new mind - universe.

Like one would be like this schematic:


QTWTT£&$YEUURURRRRRRRRR((8$))£O£="=L$$£é°£Eé*E°§£é°ç::E;ç;ç;£çEEç;çD;ç;££=O$$?éE°£


for example, of course it is very far from anything we can relate to, but just to give you an idea.

Of course the principle of non contradiction and identity are a joke for these ones: there goes all of our logic out of the window. Cool, I like these new worlds.

On the ladies thing, I am impotent and not "cock-sure" and don't have an ice cube's chance in hell to relate in any way to a nice lady, but that is the way it went. There are so many decent looking of many ages from Russia to Europe to Canada to the US and all Latin America, so much ass to chase and never getting any. But I probably don't want any just like the conflicting will powers in the mind play games, you never know who you are if even you "are". I will keep on chasing that ass and never getting any and looking at dirty pictures or almost any picture of ladies or looking at them on the streets. But this is because we want that which we can't have and the more we can't have it the more we want it, no matter what, even if you had a 100 nice ones, you would want just another, or something else, or a Ferrari, or whatever, we are set up to be always unsatisfied no matter what. That is because our mind operates according to a puny computer program consisting of 1) starting point 2) path and 3) target. But we should reverse the order, create problems, ever more problems, ever greater, break it all, unsolve problems, like in thermodynamics, there is only one way to go forward but a million ways to go backward, a million ways towards pain and only one way towards pleasure: but fool the system, unsolve problems, go backwards, increase problems and pain as much a possible, reach SuperPain before god throws you in hell, that way you fooled him.

We should strive to be bored, to not do anything, to be still and static for trillions of years, like death, the end my friend.

If the principle of noncontradiction is true and operating how come I can think up it's opposite ? Why does the structure of the universe allow this ? Because it is all a trick, a bluff...

Please now, show me another new schematic of a modifed mind, this way my mind can wander on what it can possibly mean, I can imagine the most incredible things happening in those new minds - universes.

On the blue collar labor, yes, it would be cool to have hobby factories where you could work an hour or two, and put the wheels on cars or make rockets, but we will reach that.

I still stand by cheap rents and free salaries, overcome this crappy capitalist system.
nameta9
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1888
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby brevel_monkey » Tue May 24, 2011 6:18 pm

How insane can you get ?


Apparently, quite a bit.
Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.
- Sherlock Holmes, A Case of Identity
User avatar
brevel_monkey
'
 
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:01 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby lizbethrose » Wed May 25, 2011 4:50 am

Sincere question--What is a 'modified mind?'
"Be what you would seem to be - or, if you'd like it put more simply - never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise."
— Lewis Carroll
lizbethrose
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3535
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:55 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby Lucis Trust » Wed May 25, 2011 6:53 am

You saying P is not P is not you saying P is not P, therefore you are saying P is P. :banana-dance: :banana-dance: :banana-dance:
It has been said there is a fine line between genius and insanity..
but there is an even finer line between sanity and stupidity.
User avatar
Lucis Trust
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1528
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:50 am
Location: Elsewhere

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby nameta9 » Wed May 25, 2011 8:25 am

You can invent a new relationship of P with itself such that:

not (P = not P) : this can be thought of as P cannot also be not P, or the classical principle of non contradiction;

not (P = P) : this can be thought of as P cannot be P itself, or the principle of identity is not valid for P;

So you can write this new odd relationship of P with itself by inventing a new symbol (just like the imaginary number symbol i was invented for square roots of negative numbers) as:

P :-: P (sorry if the symbol may already exists somewhere, ignore its any other meaning, just use it in this context here)

Now what is :-: ? It is real, it exists, it is a chunk of information and has relationships with other information, interacts with our mind, is a chunk of Matter, Mass - Energy interacting with itself, expressing a Reciprocal Information Relationship but we can't visualize it, can't conceive of it.

That is a Metaphysical Relationship. You choose only some logic, you create intermediate values, you make up all kinds of wacky laws, and you can create new universes with them: this will be done in new modified minds that have new neural circuits and chips and other items like wild chemicals that allow these minds to experience new universes and lifestyles...

Oh, but you are fooling yourself, there is nothing new under the sun, it is just more confusion, it is just a make believe thingy where you make believe and think that you have defeated the hard - solid laws of Logic and the Laws of Physics. Good, but I like to make believe, now what ?

And doesn't Matter make believe it is alive by creating such absurd complex carbon molecules interacting in such a quirky way with itself through cells, insects and man ?

Oh, I see, Matter, Mass - Energy is allowed to break the rules, is allowed to invent all of its crap called life, and really believe in it, but we are not ? No way jose', we will invent everything we want, and lie to ourselves as much as necessary, this is MIND OVER MATTER BIG TIME (or is it will power over truth ? or a good capability to delude and lie to yourself ? well, who cares, as long as it works, but it never really works as we always have slight doubts, the variable C, entity of being convinced is never 100 %, even in the most rigid logic and math and physics, but this is part of that trick universe that evil god handed to us).

Now contradict me, the more you contradict me the more you confirm I am right, the more I enjoy, I like to win no matter what. Now what ? I love to be Wrong and lose, I am a loser, so what ...

Hint, hint use boolean algebra to show me where I am wrong...
Last edited by nameta9 on Wed May 25, 2011 9:03 am, edited 4 times in total.
nameta9
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1888
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby Lucis Trust » Wed May 25, 2011 8:32 am

You and I both know what those symbols mean to you, you know a purple giraffe isn't an orange elephant. If the language I am using right now are unclear to you, you should go back to school and take an English course.
It has been said there is a fine line between genius and insanity..
but there is an even finer line between sanity and stupidity.
User avatar
Lucis Trust
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1528
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:50 am
Location: Elsewhere

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby Lucis Trust » Wed May 25, 2011 8:39 am

If we were in the Saharan desert and I told you there was a lion approaching, you wouldn't think to yourself, how do I know his lion is my lion, how do I know what he means by lion is what I mean by lion, words aren't static, they're a product of blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada, NO, no you would run. You only talk like this now because you have the luxury of sitting behind a computer screen and pleasuring yourself with nonsense.
It has been said there is a fine line between genius and insanity..
but there is an even finer line between sanity and stupidity.
User avatar
Lucis Trust
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1528
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:50 am
Location: Elsewhere

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby nameta9 » Wed May 25, 2011 8:51 am

But why did Matter and Mass - Energy decide to invent the pleasure/pain circuits and interactions between life forms that force you to run ? It is a quirk arbitrary relationship that "natural evolution" developed because it wanted to "create reality", it wanted to "wake up". But it is not really successful as its individual entities perceiving and "living" die, so what is left ? It keeps on creating other new entities that perceive, feel, have action and reaction interactions through arbitrary pain/pleasure circuits (because there is some kind of internal score keeping game it INVENTED, like live long enough to reproduce ? or just fight for food ? or just avoid pain ? or any other puny computer programs, one transistor circuits, if pain BAD, if pleasure GOOD, billions of molecules and reactions that boil down to a one transistor circuit, go figure, so much for "intelligent design").

But we invent "fluff", we invent even higher levels of "not necessary", of "quirks", that is our destiny. We will change our minds and brains and visit new universes...

You want to see real "reality" ? Go on the SUN and look at what Matter should really be doing instead of making believe it is alive, or go on Mars and look at how the rocks are just there, they stay put, they don't "do anything", they are superior to this baby like game Matter plays with itself...
nameta9
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1888
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby Lucis Trust » Wed May 25, 2011 8:59 am

I fail to see your point, or is that your point, the ambiguity of language?
It has been said there is a fine line between genius and insanity..
but there is an even finer line between sanity and stupidity.
User avatar
Lucis Trust
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1528
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:50 am
Location: Elsewhere

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby nameta9 » Wed May 25, 2011 9:01 am

:-: means P can't "not be itself", but at the same time (and space, or where ?), it "can't be itself", so what can it be ?

I like :-:

Poor P.
nameta9
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1888
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby Lucis Trust » Wed May 25, 2011 9:12 am

In a literal sense, ^^^ is ^^^. In a symbolic sense, ^^^ is nothing, unless we agree to make it something.

In an inductive (space/time) sense, the ^^^ here isn't the ^^^ here. In a deductive (same/different) sense, ^^^ is the same as ^^^.

Perhaps you're confusing the multiple senses.
It has been said there is a fine line between genius and insanity..
but there is an even finer line between sanity and stupidity.
User avatar
Lucis Trust
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1528
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:50 am
Location: Elsewhere

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby nameta9 » Wed May 25, 2011 9:31 am

Lucis Trust wrote:In a literal sense, ^^^ is ^^^. In a symbolic sense, ^^^ is nothing, unless we agree to make it something.

In an inductive (space/time) sense, the ^^^ here isn't the ^^^ here. In a deductive (same/different) sense, ^^^ is the same as ^^^.

Perhaps you're confusing the multiple senses.


Two things come to mind:

1) We decide when and how to make ^^^ the same with itself or different according to where or how or what we intend to do with it: but in a metaphysical, therefore real world, you shouldn't distinguish, you should be above "different senses". Oh well, just keep on doing what you want, there goes "rigid logic" out of the window;

2) Let us agree to make P follow those laws I stated, and namely it can't be itself and it can't be different from itself. Now what ? But P is real, it is an Information Relationship that lives in a metaphysical world, an infinite recursion of existence denying itself.

But, on a more general note, I know that so much philosophy in the 20th century has been imitating the Sciences, Logic, study of Languages, etc. (has evaporated into sub branches of math or logic or whatever (what am I to know, I am a drop out, ignorant who didn't even finish high school, just saying ) ). And they have progressed, but I like this more old fashion stuff, it is more fun, you can do whatever you want with it, who cares if it is all wrong, we are not going to build Rockets with this stuff, or use it where all the real Sciences like Mathematics, Physics, etc. have a total hold on all things practical, as it is correct that it should.

Maybe I like the more "artistic", or "poetic" aspects of some pseudo philosophy and metaphysics...
nameta9
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1888
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby Lucis Trust » Wed May 25, 2011 9:44 am

Well, ^^^ is more ^^^ than it is ***. Yeah, no need for super rigid logic, super rigid logic is inherently unnecessary and not to mention, anal retentive and.. annoying. We need pragmatism, not super rigid logic and nihilism-- the same thing in my mind (I know, weird).

P can't be anything but itself in a literal sense. You can't just change the laws of nature.

Maybe I like the more "artistic", or "poetic" aspects of some pseudo philosophy and metaphysics...

That's fine by me, I like that stuff too, that's not what we're doing here though, is it?

I never finished highschool either.. or anything.. anything at all.

Take a look here see--

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=175000
It has been said there is a fine line between genius and insanity..
but there is an even finer line between sanity and stupidity.
User avatar
Lucis Trust
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1528
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:50 am
Location: Elsewhere

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby nameta9 » Wed May 25, 2011 3:01 pm

In electronics, If you take an inverter, the logical NOR gate, and feed the output back to the input, you effectively get A= not A. And the "physical" result is either it oscillates going back and forth between 1 and 0 or it gets stuck at some fixed intermediate value between 1 and 0, depending on the physical (random ?) details of the circuit, but most likely it would oscillate at a frequency (pretty high I imagine). So this kind of representation of the relationship vaguely reflects and suggests an "infinite recursion of existence denying itself", as physics likes to tease us with some kinds of Metaphysical "suggestions".

But also, this simple (one transistor circuit more or less ?) materializes in a sense that A can't be itself, but at the same time can't be different from itself. But you get some kind of defined behavior, it remains tractable because it is an entity made up of constituent parts, so it can just make believe it is one entity (indivisible and justice and liberty for none ?) when obviously it is not since it is made up of so many atoms, etc. and being made up of many parts it can trick the relationship and fool it easily.

Also, a person having conflicting will powers (everyone is always in these states somewhat) can easily say "I can't be myself" and at the same time "I can't be but myself" (go figure what the self is). Again this is because a person (or mind or brain ?) is made up of constituent parts.

But in Metaphysics, A is a completely abstract entity, just like numbers (much closer to mathematical - platonic entities, but mathematical entities are still not 100 % Metaphysical entities), no constituent parts, no extension in space or time, no nothing, simply a delimitation, an entity, an item.

And in this very real world it really can't be either itself or different from itself so it exists in a way we can't imagine, it is totally intractable, but we can look at it from a distance in awe, and appreciate how astounding it is.

And so tell me what is the square root of the square root of no number at all ? Invent your new symbols, go on, create a new schematic of a modified mind.. show me a new design.
nameta9
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1888
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby Lucis Trust » Wed May 25, 2011 5:57 pm

Sure, the statement-- There is a purple giraffe in my living room + the statement-- There is not a purple giraffe in my living room could = 1 transparent, partially (in)tangible purple giraffe living in my living room.. If my words are interpreted loosely, if strictly, then they're nonsensical.
It has been said there is a fine line between genius and insanity..
but there is an even finer line between sanity and stupidity.
User avatar
Lucis Trust
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1528
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:50 am
Location: Elsewhere

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby nameta9 » Thu May 26, 2011 7:03 am

Kill Thought and Kill Intelligence BIG TIME. After killing Memory and getting rid of this huge pile of crap we must Kill Thought itself, get rid of this pile of crap. Along with getting rid of the deceptions of the "principle of non contradiction" and "principle of identity", the next thing we must do is get rid of thought, this constant chatter about nothing, this noise, and its corollary logic, language, concepts, the need to "communicate" and "communications", and also INFORMATION, that's right the very Reciprocal Information Relationships the universe is made out of, etc. And obviously we must kill Will Power another huge pile of crap, and all of the other structures that are inhibiting us, interdicting us from being what we should not be: and that is totally free and independent Metaphysical - Meditation - Philosophical Machines. And you think they would be afraid of falling into a "contradiction" ? What a joke!

And kill and obliviate all the pain/pleasure circuits that fool of Natural Evolution forced us to have, rebel against god, rebel against the Laws of Physics, show them who the real BOSS is, be your own BOSS.

Pain is the prison guard that forces us to follow logic and thought, but the first thing we will do is get rid of any prison guard like pain forcing us along a constant predetermined path, so free of pain we will be Metaphysical Machines, Emotion and Meditation Machines, pure monolithic blocks of higher states of Existence, Philosophical entities that travel to higher states and break ever more barriers.

One interesting thing about the Technological Singularity is that it was thought that higher "Intelligence", machines evolving ever higher states of Intelligence would design even "Smarter" ones up to oblivion and Nirvana: nothing further from the truth, the first thing they will do is get rid of Intelligence and Smarts as is counterproductive, useless, must be killed and they would go the exact opposite path: in a way stupider and stupider machines, but something way past anything we can ever imagine, and actually try to get as far away as possible from Intelligence, be as stupid as possible, the exact opposite, and activate higher states of beings, Modified Minds, they won't waste their Time on such puny noise and chatter , on a one line program when they can directly achieve universes of Metaphysics, Emotion States, and trillions of other entities way past anything even remotely related to us. That is why the path towards the Technological Singularity is actually the Instant Singularity, just stick wires with crazy signals in brains and wild chemicals in the minds and brains as randomly as possible, be as irrational and unreasonable as possible, it will be achieved (as in a faith thingy ...).

Now please, design me a new schematic of a possible Modified Mind, one of those that the Automated Modified Mind Generator computers is producing.
Last edited by nameta9 on Thu May 26, 2011 7:13 am, edited 4 times in total.
nameta9
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1888
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby Lucis Trust » Thu May 26, 2011 7:08 am

Hahahaha, I liked you better when you were talking politics and labour obselescence 9, from whence this insane 180 degree turn came?
It has been said there is a fine line between genius and insanity..
but there is an even finer line between sanity and stupidity.
User avatar
Lucis Trust
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1528
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:50 am
Location: Elsewhere

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby Lucis Trust » Thu May 26, 2011 7:14 am

Why 9, why do away with thought and communication. My guess is, people weren't taking your ideas seriously, so you gave up.
It has been said there is a fine line between genius and insanity..
but there is an even finer line between sanity and stupidity.
User avatar
Lucis Trust
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1528
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:50 am
Location: Elsewhere

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby nameta9 » Thu May 26, 2011 12:53 pm

I got tired of asking the governments worldwide for CHEAP RENTS and FREE SALARIES, Complete Mass Transit systems in the form of BUSES (especially for the USA, but Obama said no dice jose'), and Rockets to Mars, and trillions of skyscrapers on Mars, trillions of skyscrapers on Jupiter and in the SUN, so I changed topic. They just won't give it to me, so I had to give up. But they said that maybe the "hobby factory" and "free work" idea may have a chance, go figure...

I found this interesting block of text that I think I wrote (or was that someone else, who knows...?) when I still believed in James Kunstler's PEAK OIL, Resource Scarcity, everything is ending mythology. I then meditated upon these concepts for a few years and switched my position as I now think that this myth just serves the Dominating Capitalist Class (this language makes me feel a bit nostalgic, it reminds me of when I was a hippy in the 1970s "fighting the system", cool, who would have ever thought that I would be right back to all of this crap again ? Go figure..).

From:

viewtopic.php?style=1&f=3&t=163929

"Those few that still think, being that thinking will be one of the first activities to end, given that its "energy return on energy invested would be hugely negative", being that people couldn't manipulate or change anything anymore, so thought would mostly disappear, but those that would think that there was once running water, free water coming out of a faucet would be flabbergasted and amazed. Just having water, drinking some dirty polluted water from the crowded wells, will seem like absolute paradise, and they would think, people really once had water for free ? from faucets ? they will never believe it. It is like a trillion years of technological evolution according to our "fairy tale extrapolation" of science and technology are closer to us than free water will be closer to them. A technological singularity, a virtual reality matrix is closer and more understandable to us, than just having water will be to them. Just to drink will seem like an absolute paradise after the end of free energy comes to be. There will only be a few millions left on earh after more than 6 billion just starved and died. People got sick and died, there would be no doctors or "health care", another absolute science fiction item that people would never believe existed.

People will sleep in cars, all the old rusting chevys and buicks, those will be their homes since the old wood homes will have all been burnt to keep warm, and they will think "these once moved ?" how on earth is it even conceivable !?!? our beds once moved by that magic piece of iron in the hood and some mysterious black liquid ?!?! That is not even imaginable many will think. Another thing that will disappear is TIME. Time will flow ever more slowly, everything will flow in an increasingly slow motion. Why measure time, when nothing can happen ? nothing can change, all the motors are turned off, there is no more electricity, computers will be mysterious black boxes, people will look at them as some kind of mysterious magic boxes of the past, maybe some alien civilization left them, who knows what they did or how they "worked". Why, did things actually "work" once ? No all this can't be true, it must be some god that came down to the earth and describe a science fiction - metaphysical paradise, it must have all been invented by some mind going crazy because it didn't drink some water after a few days."
nameta9
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1888
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby Lucis Trust » Thu May 26, 2011 5:13 pm

Is philosophy superfluous? Perhaps, I suppose we preoccupy ourselves with philosophy, video games, books and the like, for our brains are programmed to and are adept at thinking, yet there's hardly anything left worth thinking about, in terms of pragmatism, efficiency or your high/necessary energy output from low/necessary energy input. Nature tends to do away with superfluity. Perhaps we'll evolve back into animals. Maybe we'll end up like that movie, idiocracy.
It has been said there is a fine line between genius and insanity..
but there is an even finer line between sanity and stupidity.
User avatar
Lucis Trust
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1528
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:50 am
Location: Elsewhere

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby nameta9 » Fri May 27, 2011 7:31 am

A funny thing is that our mind really operates according to the denial of the principle of identity (that is for us often A is not A, but is A, etc.) and the principle of contradiction and every event has a cause. We are contradiction, we are an equation without any possible solution (or maybe a solution without any possible equation), we are emotion driven machines, rage driven machines, mostly hate driven machines (we love to hate more than anything else), we are pure contradiction always, confusion, we make up all kinds of causes and effects, all kinds logical errors, we never know what we are doing. We are many contrasting will powers in one, fighting each other, we are fights, that is our essence we define ourselves according to the fight. We want to dominate others and everything with our will power, we are a total mess and will always be no matter what. That is why people like to look at the old movies of Hitler with his huge army marching, ready to express contradiction, war, as in A against B, the fight is the representation and expression of contradiction coming alive, in real life.

And then again that is why philosophers started to try to get out of all of the confusion, irrationality, that is why they had to state that A is A, they had to be sure, a chair is a chair, because in our mind it is and it isn't, we are vague, confusing and confusion. That is why logic and mathematics had to be carefully constructed, it is not obvious for us, we are always making all kinds of mistakes, all kinds of errors, confusing cause with effect, making up and mixing up all kinds of causes with effects, with events, etc.

But a funny thing happens: for us all three principles don't really apply, for us, no matter what, A is not A, contradictions abound, we are contradiction always, pure contradiction, and events have any cause we want and no cause (we connect any 2 items and assign them cause and effect as we please, we make up all kinds of things) , etc. But at a second level, these principles are true and useful and have been successfully applied in technology and science, have allowed us to progress and get things straight in many endeavors. But on an even higher and Metaphysical level, these principles are no longer true again, they resemble what we think, but they are pure abstract entities that are too distant from us, we can only look at them in awe and bewilderment.

So in this sense, Physics likes to tease us with Metaphysical suggestions.
3 levels, 1) Principle of Identity is false (our level), 2) Principle of identity is true (math - science - logic level) 3) Principle of Identity is false again (metaphysical level).

But we will construct Modified Minds, we will insert huge slabs of steel and iron in the Sun to guide the plasma of the Sun from the core to the Surface through Super Computers using High Energy Plasmas to create digital calculations that will serve to produce 10^100 modified minds a second (I like big numbers). Steel bound, Iron bound, Sun bound Automated Modified Minds generators. The Sun an entire supercomputer, it will decompose the structure of equality, the structure of numbers and existence, these metaphysical machines will create ever more abstractions and symbols, touching sensations, new emotional contraptions tied into the structure of numbers and square roots, no end in sight, higher and higher states. (as in "dreamer in the chair that really fits you", reminds me of what the YES were thinking in "Starship Trooper" or "Close to the Edge").

Kill information, the less we know the better, misunderstand everything, kill god, kill mother(fkr ?) nature, kill the laws of physics, get them on the run, chase them with a baseball bat and crack their heads open, stick em stick em, show them who the boss is, be your own boss, be the boss, you are the boss, you can do it man, just do it.

Now please, show me another design and schematic of a modified mind, I found this one, it fell on earth from the Sun:

WH£HH$H$-.:::$$J%%%çç%°%é%*%%%;%%%Mmm%=%=M%MMM&==MM$M$$M$$=X B>:Z:;Z;;>>

Wow, who knows what is going on in there, it must be incredible...
nameta9
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1888
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby nameta9 » Fri May 27, 2011 9:10 am

And especially kill EMOTION and FEELINGS, kill all of these puny predetermined 1 transistor circuits, puny 1 line programs, we will create abstract emotions that interact way past anything imaginable. Kill life and death, but especially life, as that is much more predetermined , death is always superior, kill FREEDOM, kill everything we think and go into your metaphysical world..

Be crazy, who cares.
nameta9
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1888
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am

Re: How to dismantle the mind, piece by piece

Postby nameta9 » Fri May 27, 2011 10:05 am

I was just thinking (as usual, I hate thought, KILL THOUGHT real fast !), that you really only need to express ( A = A ), as the other principle, that of non contradiction should emerge from this automatically, if A isn't A then ( A = not A ) but you can't have that relationship.

Ok, but then why did they have to express that other relationship separately ? Maybe because ( A = A ), but if this isn't so, then something else, then some metaphysical relationship applies which isn't ( A <> not A ), but isn't expressed in any way, or maybe can be expressed with some new symbol ? Another interesting Metaphysical Relationship, another abstract, unknown, intractable relationship.

They had to explicitly write down:

1) ( A = A )

2) ( A <> not A )

But why did they have to write down 2) ( A <> not A ) ?

So some possible new relationships : (?)

( A = A ) is not true, but A is something we can't know.

( A = A ) is not true but this can be expressed as ( A = not A ). So this is the example of the item that can't be itself, but can't be not itself, the "infinite recursion of existence denying itself".

( A = A ) is not true, but ( A :;:; A ). What is :;:; ? Something really far out, man !

( A = A ) is not true but this can be expressed as ( not A = A ), but this is different from expressing it as ( A = not A). So what is ( not A = A) ? Something really far out, man !

So even the simple identity relationship becomes an infinite recursion of metaphysical symbols, concepts abstractions expressing themselves to the vanishing point.
nameta9
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1888
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am

Next

Return to Philosophy



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users