Does Spirit Evolve?

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Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby eyesinthedark » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:00 pm

I define spirit as subject existing apart from object, or mind existing apart from matter. If it exists, as the millions of accounts of ghosts and other phenomenon suggest, does it possess essence, being, or is it just as dynamic as the material world?

Everything in the material world changes, nothing, except perhaps the laws of physics, of becoming/change, of affect/effect, remains. This makes for a fluid universe, yet there is also a cyclical consistency in the coming together and going apart of being, so that the same essences/forms reappear (planets, stones, mountains, fish, etc, they all pass away, but they all reappear) again and again, because the deterministic/uniform laws of physics remain, giving reality the illusion of solidity.

As far as we can tell, there's no need to introduce God, essences/Platonic forms to explain the nature of material change. Also, despite the atomists assertion, there appears to be no true atom, no true being, finitude, solidity, only becoming. Now, when we imagine the spirit world, the world of consciousness apart from matter, we imagine it quite differently. When a glass breaks, It's existence comes to an end, I do not imagine it's essence, it's form goes on existing, and even the glass particles will come to and end. Perhaps this is true of spirit, if spirit is an independent substance, maybe it has particles of consciousness that arrange and rearrange into various collectivities. This would explain why peoples minds change, obviously they're effected by brain changes, but mind also affects itself, and perhaps mind is affected by other external consciousness particles, compounds and collectivities, consciousness particles inhabiting other bodies, vessels, or other external consciousness particles that exist independently of vessels (ghosts). Perhaps spirit exists, is mortal, and must evolve to protect it's order, it's constitution, just as matter must evolve to protects it's order, it's constitution. Perhaps spirit is always coming undone, just as matter is coming undone, imagine if you will a parallel spirit world, that behaves markedly similarly to the material world. Spirit is always coming undone, ghosts are starving, they need to constantly absord other ghosts in order to maintain and preserve their existence.

lol, this is all crazy, when we normally think of the spirit, we think of souls that never change, but my mind is always affected/effected, there is no perfect continuity, my personality changes, I'm not the same person I was a day ago, a second ago. Are spirits in a contest for survival of the fittest, just as matter is, and life, a combination of spirit and matter, is? Perhaps the universe is moving toward an integration of matter and spirit, spirit will cooperate with/dominate matter, and order will convert more and more chaos into order. Eventually the universe will evolve into God, God is the ideal, not yet manifested.

Christians say God gave birth to the universe, I say the universe will give birth to God.
Last edited by eyesinthedark on Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby volchok » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:08 pm

eyesinthedark wrote:I define spirit as subject existing apart from object, or mind existing apart from matter. If it exists, as the millions of accounts of ghosts and other phenomenon suggest, does it possess essence, being, or is it just as dynamic as the material world? Everything in the material world changes, nothing, except perhaps the laws of physics, or the laws of becoming/change, the laws of affect/effect, remains. This makes for a fluid universe, yet there is also a cyclical consistency in the coming together and going apart of being, so that the same essences/forms reappear (planets, stones, mountains, fish, etc, they all pass away, but they all reappear, because the deterministic laws of nature remain) again and again, giving reality the illusion of solidity. As far as we can tell, there's no need to introduce God, essences/forms to explain the nature of material change. Also, despite the atomists assertion, there appears to be no true atom, no true being, finitude, solidity, only becoming. Now, when we imagine the spirit world, the world of consciousness apart from matter, we imagine it quite differently. When a glass breaks, It's existence comes to an end, I do not imagine it's essence, it's form goes on existing. Perhaps this is true of spirit, if spirit is an independent substance, maybe it has particles of consciousness that arrange and rearrange into various collectivities. This would explain why people's mind changes, obviously it is effected by brain changes, but it also affects itself, and perhaps is affected by other external consciousness particles, compounds and collectivities, spirit particles inhabity other bodies, other vessels, or spirit particles that exist independently of vessels (ghosts). Perhaps spirit exists, is mortal, and must evolve to protect it's order, it's constitution, just as matter must evolve to protects it's constitution. Perhaps spirit is always coming undone, just as matter is coming undone, imagine, a parallel spirit world, that behaves similarly to the material world. Spirit is always coming undone, ghosts are dying, they need to constantly absord other ghosts in order to live. Haha, this is all crazy, when we normally think of the spirit, with think of thing that never changes, but my mind is always affected/effected, there is no perfect continuity, my personality changes, I'm not the same person I was. Are spirits in a contest for survival of the fittest, just as matter is, and life, a combination of spirit and matter, is?


In my humble opinion there's nothing but the material world. There's no good reason to believe in god or spirits or souls.
I think this kind of posts would make so much more sense if posted on the religious section. Or in a supernatural/mystical section.
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby Now » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:48 am

Ok so I think all this is very true yet the existence of infinity is not mentioned.And if it was I did not read carefully but
eyesinthedark wrote:in order to maintain and preserve their existence.
Where are they going if they are not existent are the cycle through another set of time, The illusion of solidity in the material will and only can parallel in the spirit world if both are finite. Because a regeneration of cells or in the spirit cells will cause a cycle that never ends always constantly in battle tryin to find true solidity or existence or non existence how is your theory stopping the cycle or is it merely trying to get deeper into the illusion of control or freedom, i dont explain myself as well as you so please ask what you dont get. I assume you have watched walking life or no?in the end the producer explains his take on infinity.
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby eyesinthedark » Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:00 am

Ok so I think all this is very true yet the existence of infinity is not mentioned.And if it was I did not read carefully but

Right, I'm not sure there's room for infinity in my universe. I think time is infinite, I'm not sure about space. I think megaform is indefinitely immortal, and I think our souls are indefinitely immortal. They have the potential to be immortal, but they have to evolve sufficiently to be able to preserve themselves at all times, in their general, not absolute state. There is no room for definite immortality in my universe, existence is a continuous struggle, the goal is to hang on to life, to order as long as possible. To be definitely immortal is to be whole, to be whole is to not exist, sometimes we're more whole than others, but there are parts of us that are not whole, and that keeps us alive, since life can't be defined without death, life is a response to death, to eliminate death and pain is to eliminate life and pleasure. my universe is a universe of continual successes, and as few failures as possible, there is no rest, no immortality.
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby Now » Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:14 am

Time is the illusion of infinity.Why?Of course.Because well actually for the very same reason you believe in non immortality ,you wish to remain.But to remain is to repeat, and to repeat is failure. What is your take in this?I am truly intrigued by your theory,I want to understand where it stemmed from.Do you remember?
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby Amorphos » Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:28 pm

I’d say spirit has to evolve considering that we do, I wouldn’t want to believe my spirit is the same as early humans or that their spirit would be the same as ours. If so then if early man had a modern human spirit one would assume it would develop writing and sophisticated tools far quicker than it did. Indeed we could keep going back in evolution to animals, and I certainly wouldn’t think they have as advanced spirit as us.

It could be that spirit is always very advanced ~ to the max, yet only a portion of it gets used where the instrumentation [creatures dextrousness/abilities] doesn’t allow for more.

Or, that there is some manner of base spirit which does evolve.

Or, that spirit is always relative and peculiar to the case. Thus every spirit is an unchanged single instance of a multifaceted reality map, specific in every way to its form.

Or, there are no instances of spirit in the singular, just expressions of the one in the many.
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby eyesinthedark » Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:54 am

Now, the goal is to maintain spiritual (ghosts), material (plants) and spiritual material (humans, animals) life/order as long as possible. I don't think the struggle against chaos will ever end, however, I do think we'll reach a point, eons from now, when life will be practically or virtually immoral, where we will be able to overcome adversity for all eternity. Life on earth hasn't reached that point yet, as a natural or artificial disaster could set the evolutionary clock back millions or billions of years. I think we'll be happier, not entirely eliminating all challeges but evolving to the point where we can fairly easily overcome any challenge, and ward off death and decay for all eternity.
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby eyesinthedark » Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:26 am

I believe time is infinite, but I'm not sure 'bout space. If there's an infinite sum of space, then there's infinite potential for order to evolve, evolution would have no limits. If theres's a finite sum of space, and I contend there is, then there's more/less a finite potential for order to evolve, evolution would have limits.
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby eyesinthedark » Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:52 am

To summarize, basically there's two strategies for order/life to survive/evolve, one is to collaborate with other lifeforms and assimilate/convert chaos/nonlifeforms into lifeforms, or to that which assists lifeforms (tools, machines, computers, robots), which requires greater sums of spirit/awareness to accomplish (protosapiens, homosapiens, postsapiens), the other suvival/evolutionary strategy number is to compete with other lifeforms and nonlifeforms, which requires less spirit/awareness and more physicality to survive. Basically I'm arguing for suvival/evolutionary strategy one, though conservatism and two/regression has it's benefits, in the long run, humans ought to increase their spirit/awareness and their hierarchical collaboration with each other, with other lifeforms and nonlifeforms, that our individual survival is only assured through assassination/convertion, and that continued assassination/convertion will lead to the genesis of a God like entity, the size of a billion suns, and we will all be..
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby eyesinthedark » Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:12 am

..a part of this entity, infact, eventually up to half the contents of the universe could become this entity, whick, like any good evoutionary theory, dosen't require altruism to work, infact, extreme altruism or egoism would be a cancer upon this entity, Megaform, God or whatever you want to call it. Spirt survives best when working with matter and vice versa, although that which is more spirited and/or more orderly must rule over that which is less spirited and less, whilst still respecting it, lest it is the lowest form of matter and chaos. My theory favours progressive, international collectivist fascism, it is a progressive and cosmological fascism. Justice between the collective shall be the order of the day, conditional love/hate, it's the opposite species of fascism our friend Satyr espouses. It is progressive, but there is nothing external making it so, we must make it so. Dare I say the Megaform, the progressive, spiritive/materiative, hierarchical omnisymbiosis, or omnisymbiote is the meaning of..
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby eyesinthedark » Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:28 am

..of existence, let me hear you proclaim it is the meaning of the universe. Life, order, spirit, awareness, the progressive, the collective, collaborating with but presiding over nonlife, chaos, matter, unawareness, the regressive, the individual. God, being and essence don't yet exist, instead they are a lofty ideal to strive for, one that may never be fully realized and made manifest, but that is part of the fun.
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby eyesinthedark » Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:42 am

Perhaps in addition to chaotic matter and individuation, the lowest forms of being, we are opposed by dark orderly spirit, or dark collectivization, a higher form of being that only hierarchically collaborates with itself in order to disrupt our burgeoning/formative hierarchical collaboration, a omnisymbiote that favours, not itself, but it's opposite. Such a force, if it exists, would be the antithesis of my God.
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby Now » Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:45 am

Can you define time? In relevance to your theory,Nothing else
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby eyesinthedark » Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:51 am

Time is change, or the mental record of change.
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby eyesinthedark » Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:53 am

Time is the relative speed of change.
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby eyesinthedark » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:02 am

By now, I'm sure most of you have figured out I believe (not firmly though) in reincarnation of the soul, however, the soul is not definitely immortal and must continue to evolve or die. I'm not sure how this works, but the process probably works similarly to materitive evolution. In the spirit world, nothing is safe and spirit life must either compete or collaborate with other spirit life or spirit nonlife in order to survive, souls can consume and be consumed.
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby Now » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:24 am

What and how are the souls consuming?Evolution to connect with one another is always good but not for the sake of progression.That is based on time which is eternally contained within a mental state. A spirit is free it must create fluidity with other spirits by being compassionate.I, like yourself believe that we are some how God not the god but a part of God and that is what he is trying to do with creation,make itself unite by free will, Just like the body or a mental state if you have passion it will consume your soul to whtaever your passion,and thus if your passion lies in the right place you remain infinite. you just are,instead of become becoming or became.Thus God is trying to give himself freewill while maintaing order and chaos as the backbone to freewill by using humans and the spirit.If a spirit has to compete it is not free.Evolution is What?survival of the fittest?Animals already live by that way before we figured it out.What then is the separation?Why the confusion?Why is evolution so natural to us but something about us is unnatural and it combats our spirit and neglects evolution.As children we are prone to being free yet evolution restrains in order to maintain order.
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby eyesinthedark » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:52 am

Well, you can return to the primordial, monistic dissolution all you like,where all dichotomies and pluralities have synthesized, and there is only a quantum like nothingness/somethingness, but that is not where I'm headed, at least, not yet. If you want companionship and reassurance on your way to Hades, perhaps you should talk to Abstract. I'm proposing a synthesis between Parmenides and Heraclitus. extreme altruism/egoism = death. If you remain staunchly committed to your Parmenidean paradigm, then I'm affraid there is no place for you in my Omnisymbiote. Perhaps you can construct your own metaphysical kingdom. Feel free to post it here.
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby Drusus » Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:43 pm

eyesinthedark do you have any solid prove of your claim? Or is it just some imagination running wild?
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby eyesinthedark » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:29 am

Yes, life is evolving, even now as we speak, into a unified whole. See how pigs, cows, humans, our crops, machines, robots, computers, individuals, and races work together. Well, at this rate, eventually humans, through technology, will psychically link with computers, machines, robots, and animals, and we'll be like one giant brain.
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby Now » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:30 am

eyesinthedark wrote: extreme altruism/egoism = death
SO im guessing this applies to you?one brain and your the only one to have understood the telos?Okay I guess you forgot to understand that people will never follow this not only because it is based on one idea, unification not unity.Removal of self and yes i know this is exactly what you are stating and yes i know your ego will not let you have an open mind and yes i know that you probably think my feelings are hurt and you know what they are and at least I am not afraid to accept myself.O yeah and I know this doesn't matter but hey there is always hope.But in the end your idea is very well thought out.what about independence because even a single minded mind needs independence from something from chaos.what does chaos offer in your theory?Just competition or something more?
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby Stoic Guardian » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:29 am

I Don't think the soul/spirit evolves in the usual sense but I have thought of life as a type of education or journey for the soul.
"Fascism combats, and must combat, without respite or pity, not intelligence, but intellectualism—which is, as I have indicated, a sickness of the intellect" - Giovanni Gentile

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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby Stoic Guardian » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:41 am

I forgot which philosopher it was, Ill post it later if I find out.
This philosopher said something along the lines of God is closeness and unity of all things and that our universe is chaotic and confrontational because we are seperated from this oneness.

I'll need too look it up again but basically the idea was, Before the rest of existance there was God, then for what we know of existance to occur God fractured, split apart if you will to form all these things that are. You me, rocks, planets, galaxy'sand everything elses.

I won't speak more on this as I can't recollect it all at this moment but basically the Idea is, God Fractured= Existance as we know it, The reunification of all things= Perfect God.
"Fascism combats, and must combat, without respite or pity, not intelligence, but intellectualism—which is, as I have indicated, a sickness of the intellect" - Giovanni Gentile

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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby eyesinthedark » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:16 am

SO im guessing this applies to you?one brain and your the only one to have understood the telos?

I think I'm the first one, but I've had many influences.

Okay I guess you forgot to understand that people will never follow this not only because it is based on one idea, unification not unity.

What's the difference between unification and unity? You mean, a pluralistic unification vs a monism?

Removal of self and yes i know this is exactly what you are stating and yes i know your ego will not let you have an open mind and yes i know that you probably think my feelings are hurt and you know what they are and at least I am not afraid to accept myself.

Not sure what you're getting at here.

O yeah and I know this doesn't matter but hey there is always hope.But in the end your idea is very well thought out.

Thank you.

what about independence because even a single minded mind needs independence from something from chaos.what does chaos offer in your theory?Just competition or something more?

Chaos is evil, it is antithetical to life. Competative collaboration, Omnisymbiosis is not chaos, are the cells in your body chaos? maybe if they're feeding off each other and offering nothing in return, like a cancer. However, and this may sound somewhat contradictory, life needs chaos in order to exist. Life is but the antagonism between order and chaos. That is why we should not remove chaos completely, just minimize it. We must increase Omnisymbiosis as much as possible, Omnisymbiosis is order.
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Re: Does Spirit Evolve?

Postby eyesinthedark » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:22 am

I Don't think the soul/spirit evolves in the usual sense but I have thought of life as a type of education or journey for the soul.

Yeah, I'm not sure if it does either, it is esoteric, occultic, a mystery to us all, but this life is no mystery. I think we should devout more of our resources to trying to find and figure out if spirit, that is, if subjects can exist apart from objects, exists. It just seems logical to me, although admittedly difficult to fathom, that if matter is becoming, mortal, in substance and form, then spirit ought to be becoming, mortal in substance and form. Strange I know.
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