Why “Creating” Your Own Meaning is A Moronic Concept

[captaincrunk]

This isn't a replacement for reason.

Nor is reason a replacement for truth

In other words, you admit to having said nothing useful?

Pure nonsense.

People keep doing the same things over and over again because it's useless and makes them miserable. Right?

Ritualism is actually the weakest reaction to strain. But it benefits us because they reject the goals of society but still live within legal means.

[volchok]

Religion causes AIDS? Whoa.

Nice job dumbing yourself down.
Religion caused aids to go up by publicly saying that aids was bad but condoms were worse.

I'm not sure what your point is about gays, women and minorities. Religion caused problems for these groups? News for you : some atheists are also homophobes, misogynists and racists.

No shit bro. But what is the main argument against homosexuality? What contributed more to the oppression of woman (and therefore extreme poverty in a lot of countries) ? Religion and Religion.

Religious organizations have worked to improve the status of all these groups. Individuals have been motivated by their religious beliefs to help others.

One of the main reasons why slavery took so long to disappear as a common practice was because it was morally justified in the bible. It's right there in case you haven't read the book. Same thing goes for homophobia. Has religion motivated some individuals to help others? Sure. But does that justify all the other shit? Can't we teach people how to be better individual without them having to presuppose shit on insufficient evidence?

Humans fight. They do that with or without religion. Usually religion is just an excuse.

While it is true that violence seems to be inevitable, nothing has caused more violence then faith. Why? Because faith is divisive by definition.

[phyllo]

Religion caused aids to go up by publicly saying that aids was bad but condoms were worse.

You listen to the Pope more than Catholics do.
The first instruction is "don't fuck out of wedlock". They don't listen to that but they care deeply about his condom concerns?

Slavery and oppression of women are caused by men's desire for power, control and getting something for nothing. Jesus did not promote slavery. Buddha did not promote slavery. But there is still even now slavery in Asia and Africa. It's not being justified by religious arguments.

Can't we teach people how to be better individual without them having to presuppose shit on insufficient evidence?

I wonder if Sam Harris' scientific approach to morals would actually make anything better. Maybe you would just get scientific slavery, oppression and racism.

Because faith is divisive by definition.

[volchok]

. Jesus did not promote slavery. Buddha did not promote slavery.

The bible certainly does.
And he did too in luke.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)


If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

I wonder if Sam Harris' scientific approach to morals would actually make anything better. Maybe you would just get scientific slavery, oppression and racism.

Sam Harris thesis is irrelevant to what I'm talking about. By studying psychology, sociology and that sort of thing we can educate ourselves and understand how to build a better society.

[phyllo]

Luke 12:47 isn't about slavery. It's about what is expected of a believer. The master is God, the servant is man.

[volchok]

Luke 12:47 isn't about slavery. It's about what is expected of a believer. The master is God, the servant is man.

The master is god, the servant is man...

What the fuck is that if not slavery?


Also:
We must be afraid, we must also be forced to love someone who we fear, the essence of sado-masochism.


And good job ignoring all the other passages.
Good luck defending religion, belief in god, faith.

[phyllo]

The master is god, the servant is man...

What the fuck is that if not slavery?

It's an allegory.

And good job ignoring all the other passages.

As far as I am concerned, the New Testament supersedes the teachings of the Old Testament for Christians. Perhaps someone else will comment on your OT passages.
Jesus was fairly clear about how we should treat each other. The men and women who were at the heart of the anti-slavery movement were deeply religious and were acting in the spirit of Christian beliefs.

From Wikipedia:

The first British organisation to refer to itself as the Anti-Slavery Society was founded in Britain in 1823. Founding members included William Wilberforce and Thomas Clarkson.[2] Its official name was the Society for the Mitigation and Gradual Abolition of Slavery Throughout the British Dominions.

William Wilberforce:

William Wilberforce (24 August 1759 – 29 July 1833) was a British politician, a philanthropist and a leader of the movement to abolish the slave trade. A native of Kingston upon Hull, Yorkshire, he began his political career in 1780, eventually becoming the independent Member of Parliament for Yorkshire (1784–1812). In 1785, he underwent a conversion experience and became an evangelical Christian, resulting in major changes to his lifestyle and a lifelong concern for reform.

Thomas Clarkson:

It was at Cambridge in 1785 that Clarkson entered a Latin essay competition that was to set him on the course for most of the remainder of his life. The topic of the essay, set by university vice-chancellor Peter Peckard, was Anne liceat invitos in servitutem dare (Is it lawful to enslave the unconsenting?),[2] and it led Clarkson to consider the question of the slave trade. He read everything he could on the subject, including the works of Anthony Benezet, a Quaker abolitionist. Appalled and challenged by what he discovered, Clarkson changed his life. He also researched the topic by meeting and interviewing those who had personal experience of the slave trade and of slavery.

After winning the prize, Clarkson had what he called a spiritual revelation from God as he travelled on horseback between Cambridge and London. Having broken his journey at Wadesmill, near Ware, Hertfordshire, as he stopped, 'A thought came into my mind', he later wrote, 'that if the contents of the Essay were true, it was time some person should see these calamities to their end' (Clarkson, History, vol. 1). This experience and sense of calling ultimately led him to devote his life to abolishing the slave trade.

Good luck defending religion, belief in god, faith.

Thanks.

[Duality]

I pretty much expected about 95% of the people reading this thread, to not comprehend basically anything that had been said.


I guess if it helps even at least 1 person, then that was the point of it. If it doesn’t, then at least I still feel better about myself, lol.

[Russiantank]

Hii!

Life is "objectively" meaningless. Nothing "objectively" matters. Everything is a big random coincidence. Shit just happens. Luckily, we just happened to develop the ability to generate chemicals which cause us to "feel good." So.... lets do that.... alot...

I think this is a much more effective approach to motivating folks to "live their lives to the fullest" than all this "essence of the universe" and "infinite consciousness" silliness!

[Dglgmut]

For those discouraged by the idea of total causation, who believe they have no free will...

Do characters in a story change the story? No, they are part of the story. You can't change something that doesn't exist, and what does exist is the story that includes them.

If you make an elaborate pattern with dominoes, so they are all stood up and arranged to carry out a chain of events that gets progressively more and more amazing... Doesn't each domino play an important part? Whether or not the domino created the pattern, the chain of events is dependent on all of them.

So don't worry about what you can or cannot do, worry about what you're going to do. Regardless of whether you have free will, you do have desire...

You should look at life as an endless discovery of what was determined to happen.

[volchok]

Hii!

Life is "objectively" meaningless. Nothing "objectively" matters. Everything is a big random coincidence. Shit just happens. Luckily, we just happened to develop the ability to generate chemicals which cause us to "feel good." So.... lets do that.... alot...

I think this is a much more effective approach to motivating folks to "live their lives to the fullest" than all this "essence of the universe" and "infinite consciousness" silliness!

[volchok]

@ phylio.

New testament just for you:

During the first century New Testament times, slaves converted to Christianity, were regarded as freedman brothers in Christ and included in Christ's kingdom inheritance.These slaves were told to serve their masters as if they were serving Christ, with morals, faithfulness, and respectfullness (Ephesians 6:5-8 KJV). Slaves were told by Paul the Apostle in his first Corinthian Epistle that they were to seek or purchase their freedom whenever possible. (I Corinthians 7:21 KJV)

Avery Robert Dulles points out that "Jesus, though he repeatedly denounced sin as a kind of moral slavery, said not a word against slavery as a social institution", and adds that the writers of the New Testament did not oppose slavery either.

In several Pauline epistles, and the First Epistle of Peter, slaves are admonished to obey their masters, as to the Lord, and not to men.Masters were also told to serve their slaves in the same way.Slaves were told that their suffering was similar to the suffering that Christ endured. Paul also puts forward that (NIV version) "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

The Epistle to Philemon has become an important text in regard to slavery, being used by pro-slavery advocates as well as by abolitionists. In the epistle, Paul writes that he is returning Onesimus, a fugitive slave, back to his master Philemon. Paul also entreats Philemon to regard Onesimus as a beloved brother in Christ.Cardinal Dulles points out that, "while discreetly suggesting that he manumit Onesimus, [Paul] does not say that Philemon is morally obliged to free Onesimus and any other slaves he may have had."

According to tradition, Philemon did free Onesimus, and both were eventually recognized as saints by the Church. T. David Curp asserts that, "Given that the Church received Philemon as inspired Scripture, Paul's ambiguity effectively blocked the early Fathers of the Church from denouncing slavery outright." Curp points out that St. John Chrysostom, in his sermon on Philemon, considers Paul's sending Onesimus back to his master a sign that slavery should not be abolished.

In the Epistle of Paul to Titus, Paul appears to support the servitude of slaves: "Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior."

In the First Epistle to the Corinthians, Paul stated (here in the New American Standard Bible wording) that "Each man must remain in that condition in which he was called" while specifically adding that "Were you called while a slave? Do not worry about it; but if you are able also to become free, rather do that."


Anyway keep cherry picking my man.

[Dglgmut]

Hii!

Life is "objectively" meaningless. Nothing "objectively" matters. Everything is a big random coincidence. Shit just happens. Luckily, we just happened to develop the ability to generate chemicals which cause us to "feel good." So.... lets do that.... alot...

I think this is a much more effective approach to motivating folks to "live their lives to the fullest" than all this "essence of the universe" and "infinite consciousness" silliness!

The belief that everything is a big random coincidence is what you'd consider an "effective approach"?

You understand that implies abandoning all reason..? You and volchok should talk.

[Russiantank]

Why would I abandon reason? Reason lets me do shit... With reason, we figured out how to make light bulbs, and motor vehicles, and space ships... Its very useful. The fact that its a huge random coincidence of successive events that reason operates the way it does in allowing us to effectively develop theories and ideas that generate desired results does not detract from its effectiveness.

For whatever reason, it works. So keep using it.

[Russiantank]

That is one long run on sentence!

[d63]

At the same time, I think you have to beware of those who attempt to fix meaning. That can often end up being equally moronic.

[Duality]

Hii!

Life is "objectively" meaningless. Nothing "objectively" matters. Everything is a big random coincidence. Shit just happens. Luckily, we just happened to develop the ability to generate chemicals which cause us to "feel good." So.... lets do that.... alot...

I think this is a much more effective approach to motivating folks to "live their lives to the fullest" than all this "essence of the universe" and "infinite consciousness" silliness!

The belief that everything is a big random coincidence is what you'd consider an "effective approach"?

You understand that implies abandoning all reason..? You and volchok should talk.

Its pretty much the default position. Shit just happens, god/the devil just it, etc. This is not what this thread is about. Anyone with a consciousness beyond that of a fucking baboon’s is gonna look for a deeper comprehension of their own reality. That is who this thread is for.

[Russiantank]

No god, no devil. Just the observed forces of the universe. Scientific naturalism. There's no evidence of anything I would call an "infinite consciousnesses" as you mentioned You are trying to go so deep you are making shit up... On the other hand, if you want to try to elaborate on these phenomena you mention, maybe you might have something interesting to say

[Dglgmut]

At the same time, I think you have to beware of those who attempt to fix meaning. That can often end up being equally moronic.

Eh... It's the same thing to me. Abandoning the pursuit of truth because of pure laziness. To honestly misperceive truth is a different story, and no fault of the individual.

[volchok]

Anyone with a consciousness beyond that of a fucking baboon’s is gonna look for a deeper comprehension of their own reality. That is who this thread is for.

And anyone with a brain beyond that of a fucking baboon will quickly understand that a deeper comprehension of reality will produce a solid conclusion. There is no objective meaning.

Obviously there will always be idiots who talk of infinite consciousness and of "exploring the depths of the universe.".

You'd be better off creating your own subjective meaning.

[Duality]

Look dude. Im hungover and want to help you. Even though its probably a dumb move in the long run. So Ill just go ahead and paste the shit you forgot to read your first time around. Yea, lets call it that.

No god, no devil. Just the observed forces of the universe. Scientific naturalism. There's no evidence of anything I would call an "infinite consciousnesses" as you mentioned You are trying to go so deep you are making shit up... On the other hand, if you want to try to elaborate on these phenomena you mention, maybe you might have something interesting to say

edit: Btw, all knowledge is contextual. All else is sophistry. To extrapolate anything to a realm of higher thought has nothing to do with knowledge or validity. Therefore, all considerations should be based upon practical result.

"As the true method of knowledge is experiment the true faculty of knowing must be the faculty which experiences, This faculty I treat of."

[Russiantank]

Wait what? Im at work on 2 hours of sleep... after being hung over all day yesterday... so im not much better off...

But your post makes no sense??? I did read that... it just has nothing to do with anything. What are you trying to say? It seems like you are just agreeing with Scientific Naturalism?

[Duality]

Wait what? Im at work on 2 hours of sleep... after being hung over all day yesterday... so im not much better off...

But your post makes no sense??? I did read that... it just has nothing to do with anything. What are you trying to say? It seems like you are just agreeing with Scientific Naturalism?

Practical application and result. I am saying to observe this shit in your own life through experimentation. Nothing more.

In essence, if you are unsatisfied with the philosophy you believe/ the life you have, etc. then maybe it's time to try something new. If not, then that's cool too. Just move the fuck on, no biggie.

[Abstract]

1. As a corporeal entity, you are alive in a universe defined by natural laws and essences of existence.
2. These laws dictate your potential patterns of behaviour to a substantially significant extent.
3. A foolish individual thinks he has more power than he does, and does not seek power where he can actually obtain it.


As a result of these predications, life is manifested as an entity that exists to be experienced. It’s essence yearns to be observed and mulled. It’s essence exists as part of all beings, but can be greater absorbed through the will of the individual.

Those who say that one can create their own meaning to existence independent of these realities are in fact, and will remain, as nothing more than ineffectual eunuchs. Their philosophies lead to nothing more than impotent nothingness, and their lives are nothing but a squandered and macabre freak show. So they are seen, and so they will be seen unto the end of time.

True meaning (Real Power) is obtained through plumbing the depths of the universe. All the purest essences of life must be absorbed and digested. One understands themselves as a manifestation of the universe, and therefore born of it’s very own will. It is from these essences that one develops true meaning and purpose. Not from the inept ramblings of the eunuch logician or materialist atheist, or the scientist who cannot comprehend the reason he concocts his potions.

Therefore, do not look for those who promise you nothingness, as it will lead to nothing more than your pitiful, deceived death.


You have been warned - Duality

Typically when someone says they make their own meaning or purpose they just mean they have set their own goals, one's dictated by the determined world, but none the less as chosen as chosen can be...

[Duality]

Typically when someone says they make their own meaning or purpose they just mean they have set their own goals, one's dictated by the determined world, but none the less as chosen as chosen can be...

I disagree with hard determinism also. I think we are bound by our genetic limitations and individual character flaws and weaknesses, but within that sphere of operation, we have room to actualize our own realities as we so desire.