Lies do not Exist

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Lies do not Exist

Postby Trajicomic » Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:24 pm

The problem is not people always lying, but people always telling the truth. People always tell the truth.

It is not until we disbelieve each other, and disbelieve the truth we say, that lies become possible.

It is not until a human animal can deny truth that lies can exist.


So is it then possible for human animals to deny truth?

I don't think so. All the human animal can deny is his or her interpretation of language. But the human is far too devolved an organism to deny truth, yet.
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby lizbethrose » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:52 am

Trajicomic wrote:The problem is not people always lying, but people always telling the truth. People always tell the truth.

It is not until we disbelieve each other, and disbelieve the truth we say, that lies become possible.

It is not until a human animal can deny truth that lies can exist.


So is it then possible for human animals to deny truth?

I don't think so. All the human animal can deny is his or her interpretation of language. But the human is far too devolved an organism to deny truth, yet.


People don't always tell the truth, that's why they can often be disbelieved. Then there are those people who've been deluded or have deluded themselves into believing that what they say, or what other people say, is the truth. This happens all the time in politics. People honestly believe a piss-poor presidential candidate will 'save the country' because s/ he belongs to a given political party. Then, there are two major kinds of lies--RCs call them lies of 'commission' and lies of 'omission.' Finally, the committed lies can be 'white lies,' fibs, or 'it's none of your business' kinds of lies.

So I'd say we humans are quite adept at lying and we do it all the time, either consciously or unconsciously. And truth, like beauty, is in the eye, or mind, of the beholder.
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby Trajicomic » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:29 am

I'm not a "fan" of your work, liz, so I'm not going to respond to your responses, sorry. Better luck next screenname.
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby Only_Humean » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:49 am

Trajicomic wrote:I'm not a "fan" of your work, liz, so I'm not going to respond to your responses, sorry. Better luck next screenname.


I'm not a "fan" of your response. Please read the Forum rules, notable 2.1 and 2.2, and be advised that any subsequent breaches will lead to a warning.
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby lizbethrose » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:57 am

I'm sorry, tc. (Actually, I'm not sorry, but I can't apologize for what I say. I can only apologize for apparent tone of voice, is all.) I don't use any other screen name--my name is my name and I am who I am.

It's okay if you don't want to respond, I was trying to prime the pump, is all. --Liz :)
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby Trajicomic » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:05 am

Only_Humean wrote:I'm not a "fan" of your response. Please read the Forum rules, notable 2.1 and 2.2, and be advised that any subsequent breaches will lead to a warning.

I'm reporting you for going off topic and ruining a perfectly fine thread! Ooohhhhhh, what now?? :banana-dance:
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby Trajicomic » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:05 am

lizbethrose wrote:I was trying to prime the pump

Consider my pump primed. ;)
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby Trajicomic » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:09 am

By the way, "better luck next screenname" means better luck to the NEXT PERSON who replies to this thread, duh.
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby Trajicomic » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:12 am

I can see the po po is coming to shut a good thread down, like usual.

So I'll just give you knuckleheads the answer already. Because I'm such a nice guy.

Lies are disbeliefs of truth. Lies are disbeliefs. Because Truth is ever present, omnipresent. Truth cannot become denied. That is why all denials are lies. It is impossible to deny what is apparent, except by ignorance as an attempt to ignore. But ignorance is a failure, a failure to continue to witness truth.
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby Only_Humean » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:14 am

Trajicomic wrote:I'm reporting you for going off topic and ruining a perfectly fine thread! Ooohhhhhh, what now?? :banana-dance:


Covered under forum rule 3.1, as communicated by PM. Your reply is not. Any further offtopic timewasting will be met with a warning (although probably not a thread-locking) and the appropriate ban.
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby Trajicomic » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:16 am

You're too late! I already gave the answer to this thread: lies are attempted disbeliefs in already apparent truths. /thread
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby lizbethrose » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:44 am

Then, I say again, most of us are liars.

You said, "Lies are disbeliefs of truth. Lies are disbeliefs. " A disbelief is the inability or, perhaps reluctance, to accept something as true. When you go to the theater, for example, you're willing to suspend your disbelief and accept what's happening on either the stage or the screen as 'real.'

But what happens when what you disbelieve turns out to be true, or real? Did you ever see the movie Big Fish? It's an excellent example of just such an occurrence. The question then becomes who's the liar--the teller of what you believe are highly imaginative 'tall tales,' that turn out to be true or you, because you didn't believe him?

There's nothing wrong with a certain amount of skepticism, Cartesian Doubt, whatever you want to call it, as long as it doesn't become belligerent to the point where one cannot and will not accept any point of view but his own.

Btw, I don't think you can end threads, you just have to let them die the slow, lingering death that takes them further and further down the page due to lack of responses. :)
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby Trajicomic » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:32 am

Lies are only possible if and when we defy other people's expectations of logic, physics, reality, or universal laws.
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby loveissweet » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:13 pm

Trajicomic wrote:The problem is not people always lying, but people always telling the truth. People always tell the truth.


You must have missed the part where someone intentionally says something that is not actually the case specifically to give someone else the wrong impression. Have you never done that?
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby ZenKitty » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:14 am

All posts on this thread are lies :^o
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby Trajicomic » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:36 am

loveissweet wrote:You must have missed the part where someone intentionally says something that is not actually the case specifically to give someone else the wrong impression. Have you never done that?

I could not have ever done that unless I've known The Truth.


ZenKitty wrote:All posts on this thread are lies :^o

Liar!

At least you're telling the truth though, ZenKitty.
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby victorel21 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:10 pm

Define truth.
"As a philosopher I am skeptical of everything including my own thoughts" -- me.
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby Dglgmut » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:29 pm

Lies start with self-doubt. When we take someone else's word over our own logic, we accidentally adopt a lie. The lie is that we know the truth, without actually understanding how we know it, other than, "That's what he/she told me."
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby mr reasonable » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:34 pm

When people say, "x doesn't exist". I always wonder how they're going to explain what they're referencing, or how they're going to dilute the definition of exist.
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby lizbethrose » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:46 am

Smears wrote:When people say, "x doesn't exist". I always wonder how they're going to explain what they're referencing, or how they're going to dilute the definition of exist.


Good show,smears. LOL
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby Philosopher8659 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:00 am

Trajicomic wrote:People always tell the truth.


I have never met "the truth" so I have never told it anything. However, I am curious, what do people tell the truth anyway?

"the" is used for an in situ abstraction in order to comply with the naming convention. There is no environmental convention possible for this set of words. Another awkward self referential fallacy, being that a sentence refers to itself, before it was at all. However, there is indication of what is meant, that people use principles of language, which they do, but not virtuously.
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby Philosopher8659 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:03 am

Trajicomic wrote: interpretation of language.


Nothing like the ultimate self-referential fallacy. Discourses about reasoning by someone who cannot reason at all, is about as frustrating as beating one's meat with a hammer. Well, maybe the latter actually has some perverse meaning while the other is just perverse? Hell, it is past my bed time.

Someone can interpret Latin into English, or English into Sanskrit, or some words into human action (being an analogic), but not language into language. Nor is it even a complete thought to say that I can interpret English, or Sanskrit, interpret it into what other language? Nor can one interpret English into English, however, the Supreme Court claims it can do just that in order to violate the Constitution, thinking everyone is as dumb as a box of rocks and won't notice the fallacy. When it was written that the Supreme Court could interpret the Constitution, this could only mean effect policies for its expression, i,e. a logic into an analogic, not make what was written mean exactly the opposite logic contradict logic.

And to say, "Lies do not Exist" is a self referential fallacy to begin with. All language is based on a convention of words, meaning, as Plato pointed out, one cannot predicate existence nor deny it. Well, the village medicine man is still trying to use magic words.

Many people believe like a bunch of idiots do, who teach logic, that sentences are either true or false, as if by some magic, they wrote themselves-or that they, in or themselves, can comply with the principles of grammar, of which they are a part. Now that is a neat trick that takes place in environs of higher education, teaching magic in logic classes.

There is no language possible, that can be, in of itself, either true or false. Such a belief that it can is an anthropomorphism.

And how dumb does someone have to be to invent predicate logic--a language of a language? Starting with a self-referential fallacy to begin with? How can anyone even sit through the introduction of it and not fall out laughing?
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby ZenKitty » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:19 am

Smears wrote:When people say, "x doesn't exist". I always wonder how they're going to explain what they're referencing, or how they're going to dilute the definition of exist.


I thought this was suppose to be part of some paradox, or wasn't this part of Plato's Beard as well?
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby Only_Humean » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:36 am

Smears wrote:When people say, "x doesn't exist". I always wonder how they're going to explain what they're referencing, or how they're going to dilute the definition of exist.


They're saying x has no referent; it can never be ostensively shown. It's a linguistic/conceptual construct.

A pegasus is a horse (I can show you a horse) with wings (I can show you wings). "There exists an x such that x is a horse with wings" is false, without any special meaning necessary for 'exist'.
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Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby ZenKitty » Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:04 pm

Only_Humean wrote:
Smears wrote:When people say, "x doesn't exist". I always wonder how they're going to explain what they're referencing, or how they're going to dilute the definition of exist.


They're saying x has no referent; it can never be ostensively shown. It's a linguistic/conceptual construct.

A pegasus is a horse (I can show you a horse) with wings (I can show you wings). "There exists an x such that x is a horse with wings" is false, without any special meaning necessary for 'exist'.


Did they check everywhere, and all time? If not, they're words don't refer either. So theyir words of "Peaguses doesn't exist" doesn't ostensively refer either, or make any sense like "Peaguses exists".
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