Lies do not Exist

This is the main board for discussing philosophy - formal, informal and in between.

Moderator: Only_Humean

Forum rules
Forum Philosophy

Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby James S Saint » Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:28 pm

Smears wrote:When people say, "x doesn't exist". I always wonder how they're going to explain what they're referencing, or how they're going to dilute the definition of exist.

A square circle doesn't exist.

A "square circle" is a planer object that is both square, having straight sides and 4 corners, and also circular, enclosed with a uniform radius and no corners.

Do I really have to "look everywhere" to deduce that it doesn't exist?
I realize that some people would.
But some people have brains that function at least semi-rationally.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Gain is obtained by giving a lot and keeping a little.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 17779
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby Only_Humean » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:29 pm

ZenKitty wrote:
Only_Humean wrote:
Smears wrote:When people say, "x doesn't exist". I always wonder how they're going to explain what they're referencing, or how they're going to dilute the definition of exist.


They're saying x has no referent; it can never be ostensively shown. It's a linguistic/conceptual construct.

A pegasus is a horse (I can show you a horse) with wings (I can show you wings). "There exists an x such that x is a horse with wings" is false, without any special meaning necessary for 'exist'.


Did they check everywhere, and all time? If not, they're words don't refer either. So theyir words of "Peaguses doesn't exist" doesn't ostensively refer either, or make any sense like "Peaguses exists".


I'm not sure what you're saying. Referents don't have to be currently existent: we can talk about Henry VIII or Pontius Pilate and refer to actual human beings. The point I'm making is logical, rather than empirical.
Image

The biology of purpose keeps my nose above the surface.
- Brian Eno
User avatar
Only_Humean
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5671
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:53 am
Location: Right here

Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby BoneDraconis » Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:42 am

Ignorance is thus the essential key to apprehending the truth?

If you say that truth is actuality, until it's not seen by human eyes anymore, that's evidence of actual facts and not just absurd assertions.

Then assertions from humans are those things that aren't believed a course of thoughts, yet a genuine existence.

So for those believing everything that's told to them, than believe this anything is believable... "The truth will set you free"
User avatar
BoneDraconis
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:59 am
Location: Here and there

Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby mr reasonable » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:59 am

Only_Humean wrote:
Smears wrote:When people say, "x doesn't exist". I always wonder how they're going to explain what they're referencing, or how they're going to dilute the definition of exist.


They're saying x has no referent; it can never be ostensively shown. It's a linguistic/conceptual construct.

A pegasus is a horse (I can show you a horse) with wings (I can show you wings). "There exists an x such that x is a horse with wings" is false, without any special meaning necessary for 'exist'.



So necessity is a prerequisite for existence?
User avatar
mr reasonable
resident contrarian
 
Posts: 18759
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:54 am
Location: here

Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby mr reasonable » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:01 am

James S Saint wrote:
Smears wrote:When people say, "x doesn't exist". I always wonder how they're going to explain what they're referencing, or how they're going to dilute the definition of exist.

A square circle doesn't exist.

A "square circle" is a planer object that is both square, having straight sides and 4 corners, and also circular, enclosed with a uniform radius and no corners.

Do I really have to "look everywhere" to deduce that it doesn't exist?
I realize that some people would.
But some people have brains that function at least semi-rationally.



Some people might say that square circles do exist, just not in any possible world, only in impossible worlds. And they wouldn't even have to concede that much really. You could say they exist possibly assuming that the principles of the world to which you were referring were such that contradictions were located there.
User avatar
mr reasonable
resident contrarian
 
Posts: 18759
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:54 am
Location: here

Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby mr reasonable » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:04 am

ZenKitty wrote:
Smears wrote:When people say, "x doesn't exist". I always wonder how they're going to explain what they're referencing, or how they're going to dilute the definition of exist.


I thought this was suppose to be part of some paradox, or wasn't this part of Plato's Beard as well?



I have no idea. As far as I know, I pulled that out of my ass about a split second before I typed it. Not bad though right? I mean, the world might not have any real universals, but we can narrow down the part of the world we're in to the part in which this conversation is taking place, and in that sphere, there are in fact universals, and I like for existence to be one of them. The only way to avoid the notion that universals are pervasive, is to get out of conversations and what have you altogether.
User avatar
mr reasonable
resident contrarian
 
Posts: 18759
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:54 am
Location: here

Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby Only_Humean » Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:52 am

Smears wrote:
Only_Humean wrote:
Smears wrote:When people say, "x doesn't exist". I always wonder how they're going to explain what they're referencing, or how they're going to dilute the definition of exist.

They're saying x has no referent; it can never be ostensively shown. It's a linguistic/conceptual construct.

A pegasus is a horse (I can show you a horse) with wings (I can show you wings). "There exists an x such that x is a horse with wings" is false, without any special meaning necessary for 'exist'.

So necessity is a prerequisite for existence?


It is? How so?

I can imagine that necessity and existence resolve to one and the same, I don't know for sure.
Image

The biology of purpose keeps my nose above the surface.
- Brian Eno
User avatar
Only_Humean
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5671
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:53 am
Location: Right here

Re: Lies do not Exist

Postby mr reasonable » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:43 am

Only_Humean wrote:So necessity is a prerequisite for existence?


It is? How so?

I can imagine that necessity and existence resolve to one and the same, I don't know for sure.[/quote]


Thats what I'm saying. And if necessity has to be general enough to encompass everything that exists, then it's probably general enough for everything that "doesn't exist" too. Cause you could go through and point out all the similarities of some things that exist, and some things that "don't exist", then just be like, "how you gonna account for those basic fundamental similarities?". I'd be like, "shit, I guess unicorns exist, just maybe not in this world".
User avatar
mr reasonable
resident contrarian
 
Posts: 18759
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:54 am
Location: here

Previous

Return to Philosophy



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users