Do you believe life is pre-determined or rather determined in general.
- Yes
- No
0
voters
What do you think is life a determined thing, is the next step always what was going to happen?
Determined, random or probabilistically inclined… ultimately it is irrelevant.
why would that be irrelevant?
Why do you think it’s relevant ?
I asked first…
j/k
Because if we recognize that things are pre-determined we recognize predictability. We free ourselves from some responsibility perhaps. it opens understandings about ‘free-will’, which in turn enlighten us other understandings and other understandings.
As with all things knowledge of any matter is relevant in so far as it leads to other revelations which lead to others etc… overall enlightening us of life and what we are best to do with it.
Well, here are a few reasons why it is irrelevant:
1.Determinism implies predictability in theory not in practice so determinism may be true but due to the sheer complexity of the system we live in we might not be able to predict something with 100 % accuracy.
2 Let’s assume that the universe is random and not deterministic. How can you be responsible, in the deepest sense of the word, for anything at all? You cant. Now introduce determinism. Responsibility is still impossible. And no combination of determinism and randomness makes responsibility a valid construct, no matter how you turn the nobs. Same thing goes for free will. Contra causal free will is impossible regardless of what kind of universe we live in.
But you can still predict things with at least say 90% accuracy or sufficient accuracy to aid decisions.
Hmmm… i can’t really disagree with that, but I imagine there is some application of determinism that may make it not irrelevent… but maybe it is irrelevent… i’m still interested to see what the majority of ILPers think on the subject…
I have no choice but to believe in free will.
However neuroimaging scans have revealed that the action potential of neurons fire quite a few milliseconds before the test subject becomes aware of the inclination to perform an action.
This, however, merely allows for the distinction - The conscious mind does not have free will, as the unconscious has already decided what will happen in the milliseconds prior to what the conscious mind decides. This of course, begs the question: Does the unconscious mind have free will?
I have yet to come across evidence for or against this particular question. If you have, please provide the source, as I find this subject mildly interesting.
The Doorman
Opening the doors to people’s mind.
The thing that determines life is life. A thing is determined by what it is.
That may seem obvious but if it were you would not have asked this question.
Only if you define life to the most minute detail, in its components and the interactions of these components, can you make sense of the idea of “pre-determination”.
“Determinism” versus “free will” is fantasy issue.
We can certainly know that if life does not self-value, it will perish. And knowing this we can know a lot about what kind of life is going to be successful, what has been evolutionarily ‘programmed’, and how most life will behave. But this behavior is directed by what is called ‘will’ and this ‘will’ is experienced by the life itself as ‘freedom’. Free will and necessity can be interpreted very easily as the same thing.
so your saying sense life determines life, it is a type of paradox that leaves things open to happen indeterminately.
I don’t know why you would call this a paradox. What I mean is that it is nonsensical to ask of such hermetic, absolutist defining choices as “determined” versus “freely willed” when neither “life”, “determination” nor “free will” have been defined with hermetic absolutism.
You know my take on free will.
And implicit in this is my take on life, and determinism as well.
I don’t believe that the distinction is in any way sensible.
Freedom of will is an experience, and this experience is certainly determined by something.
I think that the more sensible approach to the question is: what can I do to experience free will? Or: can I determine myself such that I experience my will as free, that I can freely exercise what I experience as will?
I think the answer to this question varies case per case, as is explained in my thesis.
I think reality is big enough to contain both determined and non-determined forces.
Around the earth, things are determined. I guess I’ll choose the predetermined life option.
Surely it is determined by something, namely by what it consists of. But what is that precisely? If you can’t answer that with absolute precision - i.e. if you can not precisely predict your life from second to second to it’s final outcome, the precise circumstance of death, you can not actually claim that it is pre-determined. You can claim it but it won’t be much more of a claim than the claims of the Bible. It’s just someones “best guess” based on the information he chooses to value the most.
On the other hand if you can define life in exact terms, you can be sure how it behaves.
Since I have defined life as self-valuing / valuing the world in terms of this self-value, I can much better predict the behavior of life around me. But I can’t do it exactly, as there are so many factors in what enables a life to strengthen it’s self-value at a given moment.
Still, it is often easy to see, when you have a clear view of it’s circumstances, how a life form will respond if you know that it will always value the situation in terms of what it can add to itself.
Yes i don’t know that pardox was the best word perhaps circular-incidence…idk
…as with all things you realize truth when you see the circle…
interesting what happens when predetermined things interact with non-determined things?
As far as I know, they are not very compatible with each-other. The non-determined forces are free to change and move beyond linear motion. They can disappear, reappear, not exist, then later exist. Meanwhile, the determined shit is solid. If you take a chunk of determined reality out, it reappears. The whole system forces it to remain the same. The parts of determined reality support each-other and the whole force is like a crystal. It all vibrates based on a certain center pulse. I consider the physical realm as highly determined, and the spiritual realm is highly non-determined. When a non-determined soul enters a determined body, the non-determined transforms temporarily into determined, then it turns back when the body dies.
That does not make sense to me. Example: You read only one page of a book. You can guess that the whole book has words on each page. You can be right, too. Or wrong. You don’t need 100% certainty before you can be right.
it would be relevant to physicists, in fact any scientist would want to know this information
You would think that if a non-determined thing interacted with a determined think the result would be non-determined.