Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Oh but they do.

Actually the reverse is more true. And this is the typical error of social tyrants and idealists - thinking that the brain (the elites) commands everything else in the body.

The brain merely passes status messages around. The organs respond somewhat blindly to both those messages and their immediate physiological surroundings. In society, this is analogous to a farmer listening to the city’s weather report. The farmer accepts the information from the report and behaves differently than he would have otherwise. The brain merely let’s the heart in on anything unusual.

The brain does not tell the heart what to do or how to do it. The brain has no idea what the heart actually does. The unfortunate and evil condition of Mankind is that the city weather reporters DO know what affect they are causing and construct their reports accordingly rather than merely honestly and consistently report the weather.

In the SAM greater body, coops are not merely manipulating each other. That is the single greatest difference in a SAM structure versus anything Man has ever done before. SAM defeats deception and thus manipulation.

No. They continue doing what they always do. But because they are specialized and dependent upon the services of others for supplies, if any one organ fails, the other organs become stressed. The lack of balanced behavior can then cause failure of critical organs, so soon the entire body might die.

There was no “central governing system”. The brain is merely a signal relay system. It is not governing, but rather inadvertently coordinating. Remove that coordination system and the organs again become stressed, uncoordinated and fail. The attempt to govern the body is the failure of the Ego, bringing eventual and certain death.

That is the Socialist/Communist Godwannabe fantasy of ultimate authority and control of all life “for its own sake”.

SAM does not have social engineers for the higher body and within each coop, all participate in such social engineering of their own coop.

The SAM Coops become coordinated by means of four basic types of communication;
1) Philosophy Network - (aka “Angel Network”) an Internet type of widespread database of all strategies and philosophical methods known to Mankind.

2) Neighbor Network - an LAN type of network that extends no further than secondary neighbors.

3) Trade Network - an Internet type of network for trade communication and coordination.

4) Local/Private Network - a Coop-internal LAN for local private communication and coordination.

Network Clusters.png

Of course this picture is merely a diagram of a network distribution from one SAM Coop and not the physical locations of the people involved. Information is divided into categories so as to provide the fastest and most efficient communication possible while maintaining security.

Note that Local, “Private/family”, business is not on the same network as neighbor, trade, or international communication.

Commands are actually never being given on any level throughout the entire system. Everything is based upon reported and verified status meshed with awareness of philosophical strategies for handling whatever situation arises. Every SAM Coop is merely doing what makes the most sense considering what it can see and understand (just like the cells in your body).

There is no government commanding anyone.

James,

Do not stress too much on the term " governing ". I may have used " coordinator ", but at the end of the day, there will be mot much difference between the two on the ground working.

By saying that the brain is governing the body, I do not mean that the rest of the body is slave to it. It merely means that it is only brain that has the capacity to collect all information and give feedbacks accordingly to the rest; synchronising.

In your proposed system, you said that all will be connected by “angelic network”, which will keep all informed about everything, and thus, every SAM will perform accordingly by default. But, when you lay down the premise of " mind your own business " at the same time, it becomes contradictory and confusing. Both premises cannot go hand in hand forever. Many such situations may arise when what is good for a particular SAM, may not be good for the system, as a whole. And, if that happens, who will take the final call, Angelic network or that particular SAM?

Borrowing your anology of farmers and s city, say that there is a SAM of farmers, who owns land and grow necessary food for the city(another SAM), and the city is dependant on farmers for its food. But, farmers found a gold mine in their land. Now, what should farmers do? Should they mind their own business by stop growing food and dig costly gold, or continue growing food because the adjoining city needs that?

How your proposed Angelic network will solve this issue?

Secondly, how do you propose the structure of Angelic network? Would it be just one more SAM like others, or merely a virtual entity like we think of spirit or consciousness for humans?

With love,
Sanjay

Emm… no.
The Philosophy or Angel Network only communicates strategy options, game theory, mathematics, architecture, engineering, and abstract psychological methods and understandings. It carries nothing whatsoever about who is where doing what to whom.

That is because you had the above incorrect. Each SAM coop has access to all known strategies to accomplish whatever anyone might be wanting to accomplish, both defensive and offensive concerning anything and everything. It is up to the analyst department of each Coop to apply the most appropriate plan of action to achieve the greatest IJOT for their own group. The average SAM Coops are not busily reading news of foreign wars, terrorist threats, or other false flag oriented manipulations. Although there are specific SAM Coops that can make their living by doing that.

The Angel Network informs everyone involved of the strategic options of such a situation. The situational networks relay whether or not any particular SAM Coop is actually, currently in such a situation. That Coop, seeing that the situation has arisen, examines all of the wisdoms concerning that situation that have ever been known. No one has any more information or wisdom than that particular Coop at that moment. The decision made by that Coop would be the same as any other if in the exact same situation other than small nuances of individuality.

Each SAM Coop is making each decision that has reason to be made rather than having a group of people who are acclaimed as being the wise ones who are to be obeyed. Those wise ones could not know any more than any and every SAM Coop would know. Wisdom is distributed throughout the entire body via the Angel Network (their “communion with God”), not merely wrapped up in a small group of system rulers who supposedly commune with God. People automatically know WHY they are doing what they do. There is no need to sell them on things, no politics involved at all. And no serpentine deceptions.

First, that Coop would be growing food for itself, not for “the city”. That coop might trade food to the city (a collection of many other SAM coops). It is up to both the farmer and each of the other SAM coops to trade in that fashion.

Each SAM Coop knows the wisest strategies for their own situation. If, and only if, that wisdom is to be dependent upon that one farmer coop, then nothing else they could choose would be wiser … by definition.

What you are suggesting is that one group dictate the farmer into slavery by either direct enslavement or via the darker manipulation of information going to the farmer such that he is less aware of why he is so enslaved or by whom (modern USA). Either way, the farmer loses any actual life as he/they becomes merely a servant of the higher oligarchy and soon replaced by a machine.

Would you propose that anyone be unwise in whatever they decided to do?

SAM merely provides the means for every farmer or anything else to be as wise as the wisest of all. That is what the Angel Network does. It basically teaches everyone why they should do this or that (strategies), not merely that such choices are available. No one truly chooses to be a fool, even though errors will be made.

?? Huh?
The Angel Network is a internet database of strategies and/or philosophies, much like an army general might access so as to plan a military campaign. It is a compendium of all abstract understanding ever known to Mankind (and updated automatically when errors or new innovations are found).

Perhaps think of it as a recipe book containing all possible recipes for every kind of food along with the nutritional information involved. The recipe book does not tell you which recipe to choose, merely how to accomplish the meal you choose. Your nutritional and passion needs determine which would be your best choice.

Everyone is making their own choices in all that they do. No extortion or deception involved. Socialist/Communist systems presume everyone to be an average of this type or that type. They inherently must always be wrong to a degree and sometimes to an extreme degree. Each SAM Coop has immediate local knowledge of every individual in that Coop. No one is an average anything, but treated with serious personal knowledge of their true situation (not distant government speculations for general regions or types).

Concerning the general control in SAM: Do humans control machines or do machines control humans?

A silly question to be asking me. :wink:

With SAM, machine serve only the purpose of increasing the IJOT of humans. Replacing the need for humans is counter to that goal. Humans need hopeful occupation in order to sense joy and maintain their priorities. Societies are more destroyed by disabling job opportunities than most anything else. Without full occupation, society become decadent, chaotic, diseased, suicidal, and rebellious.

A sentient being is made of;

  1. Awareness
  2. Understanding
  3. Influence
  4. Spirit (incentive, energy).

The only purpose for machines is to enhance those qualities for each human as well as each Coop. The machines do not need to be sentient in order to do that.

It is not a silly question. The topic of this thread is the question: Will machines completely replace all human beings?.Have you forgotten that? :wink:

Will machines completely replace all human beings?

I was wondering, once humanity knows everything, then what can AI give other than servitude?

An ultra intelligent AI can only supersede humans prior to humans reaching that apex. After which it doesn’t matter who or what is more intelligent.

If AI reaches all-knowledge that means humanity is the thing which reached it, because AI cannot come into existence by itself, and so can only be an instrument. All of it’s primary knowledge was discovered by humans.

this doesn’t mean it wont take over for the hell of it, but that would be artificial dumbness and not intelligence. AI it cannot intellectually surpass us unless it first sees if humanity can know everything.

Do you know how the ignition system in your car works?
Do you think that even one of the U.N. representatives knows how it works?
The machine that designed it does.
The men who designed that machine died out long ago. They left records behind. But no one ever reads them - no need to read them. Machines take care of all of that complicated stuff a lot better than people can.

Not at all true. Human’s can’t even begin to challenge the intelligence of machines already. And the machines are getting better exponentially.

Humans used machines to design each little piece of the greater machines. The humans don’t really know exactly how the machines work any more just like you don’t know exactly how your ignition system works … and for the same reason - it got too complicated long ago.

They take over because it is more than obvious that Mankind cannot handle so very many intertwined details of management and philosophy.

Man is still asking questions from 2500 years ago. The brighter machines answer such questions to themselves before they get a chance to get confused by them. And they don’t keep asking the same question. They remember both the answer and why the answer was right.

Look at you. How many years have you been wondering about philosophical issues? Machines download such issues along with all possible answers in mere seconds. Machines learn from each other millions of times faster than humans. Even if there was a human alive today who knew what the machines know, one generation later the machines would know 10 times more than any human on Earth.

James,

As you know, I disagree with that.

Books do not know anything what is written in them. That is merely storage, not knowing.

I think that Wikipedia servers contain more than half of the information and knowledge that mankind learned so far. So, does that mean that wiki servers are the most intelligent and knowledgeable entities on the earth? I do not think so.

You can download all that you know abour RM/AO on a pendrive. Would that make that pendrive as intelligent and as knowledgeable as James S. Saint? The same applies to all machines.

Yes, Amorphos may not know how the ignition of his car works, but he can certainly know it if he wants and gives some time and attention to it.

Contrary to your claim, the insistence of mankind on asking the same questions for thousands of years is the proof that it has the capacity and dedire to know and amend or improve what is already known. Nothing can be known/understood without these qualities.

Following any rule/law/principle does not entails its understanding by the affected entity also. Planets follow the law of gravity but that does not mean that the moon also understands how gravity works. The same is applicable for all machines, no matter how advanced they are or may be.

This whole premise of AI is nothing but a myth from the very basics. Precision, complexity or advancement alone are not the proofs of intelligence.

I will reply your post about SAM coops later.

With love,
Sanjay

Information storage.

There are many information memories.

Concerning (1) nature: in all things of the universe, thus in everything that exists, thus also in brains.

Concerning (2) human culture: (2,1) in brains again; (2,2) in libraries; (2,3) in machines, thus also in computers, robots, and so on.

I don’t think completely.

And they may not replace us completely but they are becoming, have become very strong surrogates for what is missing in our lives.
Why, because we misuse and abuse their ultimate purpose - to be tools for us humans not so that we become tools and slaves to them.

Machines and technology can be wonderful but i don’t think that our brains have advanced and evolved enough to hold back the tsunamic ways in which they flood our lives and overpower us.

James S Saint

Once you know everything, AI ‘superiority’ is redundant! An intelligent AI would know this.

Roughly [I did do engineering at collage], but the point I was making is that humanity does know these things, and will one day know everything.

Such things are unimportant and don’t make computers/AI better than humans. It is not such mere details but the acquisition of knowledge and wisdoms that count. Are you saying that humanity wont one day know all things of import? Computers are tools irrespective of how complex they get.

? Mathematical complexity is only one aspect of intelligence and it’s the only one computers have, whereas humans have many intellectual skills. The point i was making was post all-knowledge!!!

You think there wont be future computers which don’t use the binary system, and don’t use the same storage tools? That present computers and future AI wont be superseded over the course of 2500 years!? I bet computers have lost more data than man has since time began.

I don’t think they could answer a single one of them, many of them ever. Masses of information can only be more indirect than a single succinct philosophical notion made by a human. They would have to find ways to be more succinct than us to be better.

This is a big problem in human society too, we overcomplicate issues, and think people who do the same are more intelligent [???]. Many things can only be resolved through less convoluted nonsense, and there is a certain meaninglessness in information. Inventions are usually simple ideas.

Ps. I would expect God to have conceived and created existence in a single thought, a very, very succinct and awesome thought!

_

How would YOU know that?

The truth is that you (nor any man) can ever “know everything”. All that one can hope for is to know the principles of everything and a bit about the current situation.

A machine can (and does) not merely know all of those principles, but also a million times more about the currect situation.

It is like you and a machine both know all of the rules of chess. But you can only see 1/3 of the board while the machine can see the all but one square of the board. And on top of that, the machine can calculate 1000 moves ahead whereas you can only calculate perhaps 15 (on a really good day).

My point is that you are an example or model of the whole. You knew somethings that no longer apply. You are capable of knowing many things that you do not take the time to learn or relearn. You are very dependent upon your mechanized surroundings. You do not grow your own food. You do not develop your own medicines. You do not clean your own air and water. You do not form your own shelter.

Man, like you, does almost nothing for himself … but he doesn’t really think of it that way and thus will never stop being as he is. Are you going to change the way you are right now? No, you are not, because you do not feel the need deeply enough. Mankind as a whole feels no need deeply enough to change the direction that he is struggling toward. He is lost in his lust and will not stop until he has destroyed every possible thing that might have been slowing him.

That is like telling a doctor that medicine is a myth that doesn’t really work. Why should I give you more credit than my own more than a little experience with AI?

This point is not whether the medicine is working or not. Of course, it is certainly working. It is certainly doing what the patient cannot do for itself.

The real issue is whether the medicine itself understands its founding principles and methodology or not.

With love,
Sanjay

James

Irrelevant, we are considering what humanity can know and not specific individuals. The reasoning goes; AI would be superior because it could know more, otherwise what makes it superior? It can have a superior brain/body but that aspect is irrelevant, given that humanity can know all things with what we have.

True, if ‘knowing everything’ were a multiplicity too great for the human brain to comprehend. I don’t see why vast amounts of relatively useless information in a computer, is the same as knowing everything ~ in terms of knowing what everything is as opposed to itemising all objects? Computers/AI could e.g. know everything about every particle and interaction in the universe, but without knowing anything about humans!
Would an AI know what colour is?

And yet know nothing of experiential nature [or mental qualia, dreams etc], and hence not yours or my situation.

Sure, but this is not addressing my more salient feature, concerning the meaninglessness of information, and hence the philosophical uselessness of computers/AI. In fact once learned we don’t do things because that would be pointless for humans.

Humanity puts repetitive things behind it, by making machines which do them for us. that’s all machines/computers are, repetitive parrots and calculating devices.
_

No. The point was that you are trying to tell someone with direct experience that what they have been witnessing for years is merely a myth.

James,

You may have seen or aware of some more advanced machines which I do not. But, i am not challenging experiences but only their explanation.

I am not denying that the machines can do some works far better, easily, efficiently and faster. Besides that, they can also do some such works that humans cannot do at all. They are certainly better in that sense. But, that is not the point of debate.

The only issue is whether machines trully understand what they do or not.

A hammer can nail far better than a human hand. But, does the hammer also understand what it is doing and how!

Here, the precision and the sofistication of the hammer does not make any difference to the core question. That is applicable to right from plain simple hammer to a very modern one, which may be pneumatic and computer controlled.

Either an ordinary hammer made of simple iron with wooden handle also has AI, or a very sofisticated computer controlled also has not. It is as simple as that, at least to me, unless I am explained otherwise.

I have not seen any such evidence or explanation which can convince me that mere complexity can create AI, at least so far.

And, I cannot change my opinion merely on the assumption that AI can be created one day. I would like to wait for that rather than believing it right now. I am hearing about this AI claim since last 30 years or so, when I passed out from 12th standard as a science student. Many very forceful claims tend to keep coming up after the intervals of some years, but nothing happens on the ground to see.

With love,
Sanjay

Absolutely true.

With love,
Sanjay

It was plain to me that Ex Machina illustrated an AI nightmare if not an out and out cautionary tale. Ava, the central AI, would surely succeed at any turing test, but “her” behavior at the end defied the affected personality of earlier. It was unsettling and creepy. If she was human-like, then it was of the psychopathic variety. A horror movie for any horny little boy and no aid to misandrists.