Expect the worst; hope for the best; in the middle of those two are the most probably realities.
…if they could understand why they acted differently ,
then the sensibility of hope would probably prevail , as the correlation to the senselessness of hopelessness would follow the thoughts of both: humans & machines)
Maybe.
jerkey:…if they could understand why they acted differently ,
then the sensibility of hope would probably prevail , as the correlation to the senselessness of hopelessness would follow the thoughts of both: humans & machines)Maybe.
Arminius,
I did qualify it by saying : ‘probably’
But maybe that’s not enough.
Europe’s robots to become ‘electronic persons’ under draft plan:
MUNICH, Germany (Reuters) - Europe’s growing army of robot workers could be classed as “electronic persons” and their owners liable to paying social security for them if the European Union adopts a draft plan to address the realities of a new industrial revolution.
Robots are being deployed in ever-greater numbers in factories and also taking on tasks such as personal care or surgery, raising fears over unemployment, wealth inequality and alienation.
Their growing intelligence, pervasiveness and autonomy requires rethinking everything from taxation to legal liability, a draft European Parliament motion, dated May 31, suggests.
Some robots are even taking on a human form. Visitors to the world’s biggest travel show in March were greeted by a lifelike robot developed by Japan’s Toshiba <6502.T> and were helped by another made by France’s Aldebaran Robotics.
However, Germany’s VDMA, which represents companies such as automation giant Siemens and robot maker Kuka , says the proposals are too complicated and too early.
German robotics and automation turnover rose 7 percent to 12.2 billion euros ($13.8 billion) last year and the country is keen to keep its edge in the latest industrial technology. Kuka is the target of a takeover bid by China’s Midea <000333.SZ>.
The draft motion called on the European Commission to consider “that at least the most sophisticated autonomous robots could be established as having the status of electronic persons with specific rights and obligations”.
It also suggested the creation of a register for smart autonomous robots, which would link each one to funds established to cover its legal liabilities.
Patrick Schwarzkopf, managing director of the VDMA’s robotic and automation department, said: “That we would create a legal framework with electronic persons - that’s something that could happen in 50 years but not in 10 years.”
“We think it would be very bureaucratic and would stunt the development of robotics,” he told reporters at the Automatica robotics trade fair in Munich, while acknowledging that a legal framework for self-driving cars would be needed soon.
The report added that robotics and artificial intelligence may result in a large part of the work now done by humans being taken over by robots, raising concerns about the future of employment and the viability of social security systems.
The draft motion, drawn up by the European parliament’s committee on legal affairs also said organizations should have to declare savings they made in social security contributions by using robotics instead of people, for tax purposes.
Schwarzkopf said there was no proven correlation between increasing robot density and unemployment, pointing out that the number of employees in the German automotive industry rose by 13 percent between 2010 and 2015, while industrial robot stock in the industry rose 17 percent in the same period.
The motion faces an uphill battle to win backing from the various political blocks in European Parliament. Even if it did get enough support to pass, it would be a non-binding resolution as the Parliament lacks the authority to propose legislation.
They will eventually be granted superior rights to organic persons.
102177 is a lot of views for one thread.
They will eventually be granted superior rights to organic persons.
That is very likely.
102177 is a lot of views for one thread.
Yes, it is. Now the number of the views is 102507.
No. It’s 102516.
No. It’s 102517.
Sorry, I must have read it wrong. Now it says 102531.
It must be a site software problem.
Sorry, I must have read it wrong. Now it says 102531.
It must be a site software problem.
A machine problem.
Now it is 102552.
Some rich people want to kill us all and replace us with machines, but that’s not good, even for them, because they’d atrophy, biologically and culturally.
Machines doing all the work, and allowing us either to be really hedonistic and materialistic, or really lazy, is a curse, not a blessing.
You can have too much of a good thing, everything in moderation, including technology.
Then I ask you, Anomaleigh: Do you think that machines will completely replace all human beings?
jerkey:To my mind the closest analogy I can give, to the first question (out of which the other three flow), is that of a seed. Cosmologically, the consciousness of the world must arise out of the brute, inert matter, unable to realize it’s self without the development of higher consciousness. In a sense, nothing really exists, which can not be perceived. Existence here in Sartre’s vocabulary passes the cogito ergo sum, into the esse est percipii, to exist is to perceive, and that means perception is the predicate to existence.
It can be said both ways, ‘to exist is to perceive’ and existence is the predicate, because existence and perception are so closely bound to each other, embedded into each other.
The really interesting question is, whether there may be inorganic perception, or, preception, where the difference will take maybe another thousand years to unravel.
The fact that microchips are made of inorganic material, but may advance to organic material, shows the narrowing of that difference. Both may be used as analogues, however, and the time for that may be fairly near.
“Perception” requires a degree of complexity beyond being merely affected or affecting. Affect is a “predicate” to existence. Perception is a predicate to consciousness.
And “organic” is merely a class of chemical makeup. It does not necessitate the existence of any other particular attribute or function. The function of perception and the consequential consciousness can be emulated by many things, organic or non-organic. Being organic is merely having carbon and oxygen as the base molecules. Silicon and oxygen can perform the same basic functions and thus can be used to form a living being with perception and consciousness. Many computers certainly perceive and are already conscious to a small degree, ever growing.
I know that we already had this discussion in this thread, but my question is again: How can we currently know for sure that they are already conscious to a small degree?
I know that we already had this discussion in this thread, but my question is again: How can we currently know for sure that they are already conscious to a small degree?
Define “consciousness”. Look at the exact details required of something for it to be called “conscious”. Once seen in concept, they can be seen right in front of you.
Arminius:I know that we already had this discussion in this thread, but my question is again: How can we currently know for sure that they are already conscious to a small degree?
Define “consciousness”. Look at the exact details required of something for it to be called “conscious”. Once seen in concept, they can be seen right in front of you.
Being aware or conscious of thoughts or knowledge is already a tautological description, because if you know that there are thoughts or knowledge, then you also know that there is a consciousness.
James S Saint: Arminius:I know that we already had this discussion in this thread, but my question is again: How can we currently know for sure that they are already conscious to a small degree?
Define “consciousness”. Look at the exact details required of something for it to be called “conscious”. Once seen in concept, they can be seen right in front of you.
Being aware or conscious of thoughts or knowledge is already a tautological description
True, thus would make a poor definition. Get an exacting unambiguous, informative, meaningful definition.
As you know, I define it as:
Consciousness == The property of remote recognition.
Arminius:Being aware or conscious of thoughts or knowledge is already a tautological description
True, thus would make a poor definition. Get an exacting unambiguous, informative, meaningful definition.
As you know, I define it as:
Consciousness == The property of remote recognition.
Yes, I know.
As you know, I define it as:
Consciousness == The property of remote recognition.
Does that not move the discussion to the definition of recognition?
Is a television conscious? A radio-controlled car? A heat-seeking missile?
James S Saint:As you know, I define it as:
Consciousness == The property of remote recognition.Does that not move the discussion to the definition of recognition?
Yes, at least partially.
Is a television conscious? A radio-controlled car? A heat-seeking missile?
A televison is not conscious, a radio-controlled car is not conscious, a heat-seeking missile is not conscious; but what about certain machines with an artificial intelligence?
James, how do You understand remote recognition? As a pre thought -verbal recognition at and before the limit of sensation, as in a primary process, or with a conceptual inclusion sans some elements which can differentiate between human beings and animals?
James S Saint:As you know, I define it as:
Consciousness == The property of remote recognition.Does that not move the discussion to the definition of recognition?
Is a television conscious? A radio-controlled car? A heat-seeking missile?
“Recognition” is easy to define:
rec·og·ni·tion (rĕk′əg-nĭsh′ən)
n.
- The act of recognizing or condition of being recognized.
2. An awareness that something perceived has been perceived before.
An example of remote recognition in mechanisms would be the little android that hears a voice, identifies it as the young girl, turns in her direction, and says, “Good morning, Pretty”.