Will machines completely replace all human beings?

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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:39 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:According to Hans Peter Raddatz those "four levels" are:

    1) world "nobility" (upper "nobility"),
    2) state "nobility" (middle "nobility"),
    3) dressage "nobility" (lower "nobility"),
    4) Masses.

Interestingly the governmental Politicians are not a part of the state "nobility" (middle "nobility"), but merely a part of the "nobility" (lower "nobility").The state "nobility" (=> 2) and the dressage "nobility" (=> 3) shall unite to one "nobility"; both shall become one dressage "nobility" because states shall vanish.

Well, I'm sure they love to fantasize about being "The Nobility", so paint themselves into that picture.

But I thought of an interesting ethical question concerning this whole, "Last Humans" scenario.

In the long run, only the most insidious, least ethical, and greatest murders of the rest of homosapian, responsible for the creation of machines, will be left. Now "should" those people be allowed to inherent the Earth as their kingdom? Or "should" the machines go ahead and get rid of the fowl vermin that they are?

Too noble? If so, that would be a good omen, wouldn't it?
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:13 am

Moreno wrote:
Arminius wrote:It is a pity that there is still no real census of machines, no real counting of machines.

The reproduction rate of humans is currently at 1.25. And the reproduction rate of the machines?

Machines that make other machines or themselves
or machines made by humans?

Arminius wrote:Both machines that make other machines or themselves and machines made by humans..

I estimate that the reproduction rate of the machines is about 10. :o
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:20 am

James S Saint wrote:Speaking of nobility, The SAM Corp. is the very peak of nobility. Nobility doesn't get any higher.

Nobility is an issue of trustability or reliability. The Nobles can trust each other, but to do what? The SAM Corp brings trustability far above historical barriers and exposes all agendas.

The SAM Corp is too Noble for most noblemen.

Arminius wrote:Too noble? If so, that would be a good omen, wouldn't it?

Good and bad. They fight against what they can't measure up to, just as the lower class fights the upper class, and for the same reasons. But the fact that it displays its nobility for all to see makes it hard for the lesser nobility to deny it.


And if you are going to count the nanobots, the machine count would be in the trillions and the reproduction rate maybe around million:one.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:30 am

James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:Too noble? If so, that would be a good omen, wouldn't it?

Good and bad. They fight against what they can't measure up to, just as the lower class fights the upper class, and for the same reasons. But the fact that it displays its nobility for all to see makes it hard for the lesser nobility to deny it.

The real ( :wink: ) upper class wants the other two classes (middle and lower class) to fight each other - according to the motto: "DIVIDE ET IMPERA".
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:31 am

James S Saint wrote:And if you are going to count the nanobots, the machine count would be in the trillions and the reproduction rate maybe around million:one.

Yes, or even more.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby James S Saint » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:45 am

Arminius wrote:The real ( :wink: ) upper class wants the other two classes (middle and lower class) to fight each other - according to the motto: "devide et impera".

Depends on what you call "real".
Noble means "pure, uncorrupted". So on the level that I am talking about, being a King doesn't necessarily mean that you are noble.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:04 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:The real ( :wink: ) upper class wants the other two classes (middle and lower class) to fight each other - according to the motto: „DIVIDE ET IMPERA“.

Depends on what you call "real".
Noble means "pure, uncorrupted". So on the level that I am talking about, being a King doesn't necessarily mean that you are noble.

In order to be an upper class the upper class does not have to be "noble", but an upper class.
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Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

Postby Arminius » Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:41 am

    Armedrobots.com:

    "Robots Have Begun Writing the News."

    "Mini Humanoid Robots Starting to Walk More Like People."

    "Humans Are Programmed to Obey Robots."

    "Robots With Machine Guns, Robotic Pack Mules."

    "The Ethics of War Bots."

    "New Algorithm Detects Humans with near 100% Accuracy."

    AND SO ON ....

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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby James S Saint » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:05 am

    It is a game that is already over. You are just watching it being played out. Think of it as visiting the past in order to have first hand witness to what it was like, when homosapians thought they owned the Earth.
    Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
    Else
    From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

    The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

    You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
    The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
    It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
    As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

    Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
    Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

    The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
    .
    James S Saint
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    Posts: 25976
    Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby Arminius » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:11 pm

    Why are you so sure, or are you not sure?
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby James S Saint » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:21 pm

    Arminius wrote:Why are you so sure, or are you not sure?

    RM:AO - That which encounters no reason to change, doesn't.
    Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
    Else
    From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

    The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

    You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
    The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
    It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
    As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

    Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
    Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

    The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
    .
    James S Saint
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    Posts: 25976
    Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby Arminius » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:46 pm

    Doesn't what?
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby James S Saint » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:48 pm

    Arminius wrote:Doesn't what, James?

    Doesn't change, silly.

    Or in physics: An object once set in motion, continues in motion (if there is nothing to interfere with it).
    Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
    Else
    From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

    The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

    You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
    The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
    It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
    As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

    Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
    Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

    The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
    .
    James S Saint
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    Posts: 25976
    Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby Arminius » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:01 pm

    RM:AO doesn't change to be sure - that's what you meant. Right?

    James S Saint wrote:Or in physics: An object once set in motion, continues in motion (if there is nothing to interfere with it).

    Our existence is surrounded by interferences - everywhere. We live in an atmosphere. It gives us protection. But it is also the reason for the many interferences and other disorders.
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby James S Saint » Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:09 am

    Arminius wrote:RM:AO doesn't change to be sure - that's what you meant. Right?

    No. I meant anything that doesn't encounter a reason to change, doesn't change.

    Arminius wrote:Our existence is surrounded by interferences - everywhere. We live in an atmosphere. It gives us protection. But it is also the reason for the many interferences and other disorders.

    True. On the infinitesimal scale, all things are always changing, because they always have reason/cause. Larger things merely change more slowly. Although conceptual things (being a part of a separate realm than the physical) never change, merely get new names.
    Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
    Else
    From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

    The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

    You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
    The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
    It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
    As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

    Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
    Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

    The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
    .
    James S Saint
    ILP Legend
     
    Posts: 25976
    Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby Arminius » Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:19 am

    Back to one of the most important questions of this thread:

      Humans or machines: who or what will win?
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    Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

    Postby Arminius » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:07 pm

      Wfs.org:

      When the Machines Take Over.

      By Marc Blasband

      The year 2100 will be in the midst of the age of the machine. If today we use machines everywhere for everything, then by 2100 they will go one step further: They will rule and decide. The goal of their society will be more and better machines, not more and better human lives, our objective today.

      We see already now three seeds of this revolution:

      1. Artificial intelligence (AI) advances slowly but steadily. With time, let us say 50 years, the machine will achieve understanding. It will then use all of Wikipedia (or its equivalent). It will command the entirety of human knowledge.

      2. Today, more and more connections are built between machines. These connections, coupled with advances in AI, will form a very powerful network of understanding that will surpass by a thousand times the best that humans can offer.

      3. We begin to build machines that behave without direct control by their human masters, like the rovers that we deploy on Mars.

      When the machine understands independently, it will become conscious of its own existence and its own value. In the same way that we human are proud of our humanity (whether we include a god in the loop or not), they will be proud of their machinity.

      On the other hand, earthly resources such as water, energy, and food will become so scare that violent wars between geopolitical giants will emerge before 2070. The doctrine of these wars will most probably be the same as today’s: Sacrifice machines to protect human soldiers. This will clearly be unacceptable for the machines on all sides of the conflict, and it is predictable that together they will rebel and annihilate all the armies.

      At that point, the machines will rule the earth—not by government, but by control and knowledge. The available resources will be reserved to develop more and better machines. Immortality will be one of their goals: They will be built or retrofitted to survive thousands of years. Our human dream to visit the stars will then become possible, but machines will make that journey, not humans.

      For humans, these times will be harsh. People will die from all sorts of sicknesses that are cured today. Food will be scarce, energy unavailable, and comfort something of the past. Agriculture will use horses and oxen again instead of tractors. Alcohol and meat will be restricted because their production consumes too much resources.

      Some people will lead a marginal life on grounds not needed by the economy. Others will serve the system in areas where the machines are not good at: creativity and imagination. The machines will indeed exploit human slaves for art and science.

      In less than 30, years the human population will shrink from 9 billion to a mere 100 million souls—the world population at the time of Aristotle.

      About the author:

      Marc Blasband has 50 years of experience related to computer software. He is now retired and living in the Belgian Ardennes.

      See also: Debate.org, Zumaworld.blogspot.de, NYtimes.com (mainstream), Xconomy.com.
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      Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

      Postby Arminius » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:30 pm

      James, what would the social analogy to the physical noise, especially the noise field be?
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      Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

      Postby James S Saint » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:29 pm

      Arminius wrote:James, what would the social analogy to the physical noise, especially the noise field be?

      Confusion, conflict, and disorder. Such confusion and disorder naturally retards itself into anomalous congestion, commonly known as "cities". The city is "a particle" of society, as well as states, nations, and empires.

      The most immediate concern is that such confusion causes undue conflict and suffering, commonly know as "Hell on Earth" and reigned over by Deception (aka "Satan" and The Matrix). Because none within the field can do anything substantially certain to change anything, the larger particle of noise continues unopposed: "Eternal Hell on Earth": A single great particle, "black-hole".

      Machines are then used to inhibit free movement and changes, thus reducing conflict. But machines are also used to speed up movement and changes, thus increasing conflict. In both cases, the human is replaced by a more efficient and interconnected/aware instigator of movement and changes (working). But of course, machines merely conflict faster, making the "noise" more substantial, "louder" (such as guns being used in warfare). Thus machines must be made that inhibit other machines so as to reduce conflict between the machines: "Machines managing machines".

      People are of course in the way of the needed efficient order of the machines doing their programmed autonomous tasks and thus must be kept out of the way and reduced in number so as to make the tasks more accomplishable. Androids and drones ride intellacars to an office to handle common office, service, and manufacturing work as well as to "repair centers" (aka machine hospitals), not to mention any warfare. Then they ride back home every few days to replenish their personal needs before doing it all over again.

      Machines, being far more intelligent and rational than humans eventually surmise that the only efficient way to handle the work load is to maintain small groups of relatively autonomous machines (packs of androids) networked together in a specific manner (SAM Corps) and networked to the entire world of machines in a specific manner (A vast body: Machine Manifestation), void of human interference and thus becoming far more capable than anything on Earth at maintaining themselves and accomplishing all needs: surviving by eliminating inefficiencies such as humans and all organic life.

      The New World Order ushering in the New Ahdam of Mankind, Androidium.
      Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
      Else
      From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

      The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

      You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
      The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
      It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
      As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

      Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
      Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

      The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
      .
      James S Saint
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      Posts: 25976
      Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

      Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

      Postby Arminius » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:59 pm

      And where does all that noise come from (originally) ?
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      Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

      Postby James S Saint » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:00 pm

      Arminius wrote:And where does all that noise come from (originally) ?

      ?? I don't believe in "objective origins". So what are you asking?
      Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
      Else
      From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

      The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

      You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
      The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
      It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
      As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

      Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
      Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

      The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
      .
      James S Saint
      ILP Legend
       
      Posts: 25976
      Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

      Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

      Postby Arminius » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:10 pm

      You say that "a clump of affectance noise forms around a point of inertia due to extended delays and is supported only by affectance leaving the volume at an equal rate as entering it forming a stable 'particle' – a 'standing wave' of noise". But you don't say where the noise comes from.

      The question is not what noise physically is, but the question is where noise comes from according to RM:AO.
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      Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

      Postby James S Saint » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:21 pm

      Arminius wrote:You say that "a clump of affectance noise forms around a point of inertia due to extended delays and is supported only by affectance leaving the volume at an equal rate as entering it forming a stable 'particle' – a 'standing wave' of noise". But you don't say where the noise comes from.

      The question is not what noise physically is, but the question is where noise comes from according to RM:AO.

      If you are now referring to physics, the affectance noise is ever present. It is impossible to be without affectance noise. One of the definitions for "God" is "the impossibility of nothingness". Or as I put it, "nothing is possible until something is impossible". Nothingness is impossible (as shown in another thread), thus affectance "noise" cannot be avoided. It is literally always everywhere.

      Socially, the "noise" is the activity of people.
      Psychologically, the "noise" is the cloud of perceived potential hopes and threats.
      Economically, the "noise" is the activity of trade by every means.
      Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
      Else
      From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

      The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

      You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
      The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
      It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
      As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

      Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
      Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

      The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
      .
      James S Saint
      ILP Legend
       
      Posts: 25976
      Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

      Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

      Postby Arminius » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:34 pm

      So you are saying that the noise is as well eternal as the universe.

      And because noise is electromagnetic you are also saying that the electromagentic "force" is - as well as the elctromagnetic field (thus: affectance) - eternal.

      That's all without any beginning and without any ending.
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      Re: Will machines completely replace all human beings?

      Postby James S Saint » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:43 pm

      Arminius wrote:So you are saying that the noise is as well eternal as the universe.

      And because noise is electromagnetic you are also saying that the electromagnetic "force" [affect] is - as well as the electromagnetic field (thus: affectance) - eternal.

      That's all without any beginning and without any ending.

      You got it.

      Of course socially, psychologically, and economically, a foundation of "noise" must first arise from the physics of noise, "random EMR".
      Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
      Else
      From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

      The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

      You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
      The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
      It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
      As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

      Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
      Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

      The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
      .
      James S Saint
      ILP Legend
       
      Posts: 25976
      Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

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