Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

This is the main board for discussing philosophy - formal, informal and in between.

Moderator: Only_Humean

Forum rules
Forum Philosophy

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby Arminius » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:54 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:H. G. Wells was inaugurated.

?? inaugurated as what?

And no, I never read the book.
But have seen the films. 8)

Inaugurated as one of them.
__________________________________________________

Now I have to go to in a few miles distant place to see the final football match of the FIFA World Cup: Germany - Argentina. My tip: 3 - 0.
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby Arminius » Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:55 pm

What do you think about my tip and about those "films" you mentioned, James?
_________________________________________________________

In in the next hours you can't reach me by posting.

I will be back later, perhaps tomorrow.
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby James S Saint » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:00 am

Arminius wrote:What do you think about my tip

I did tell you that I am from Texas, where soccer is for woe-men. :wink:

Arminius wrote:and about those "films" you mentioned, James?

What do I think about the H.G. Wells films?
I think that he, like many, were aware of the thoughts of powerful men. But unlike the "conspiracy theorists", he simply made fictional films exposing the concepts without naming names. That is the way to get the word out in the West.

And I still don't know what you mean by "inaugurated him as one of them". :confusion-scratchheadyellow:
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby Arminius » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:43 pm

James S Saint wrote:What do I think about the H.G. Wells films?
I think that he, like many, were aware of the thoughts of powerful men. But unlike the "conspiracy theorists", he simply made fictional films exposing the concepts without naming names. That is the way to get the word out in the West.

Primarly he wrote books. Did he also make films?

James S Saint wrote:And I still don't know what you mean by "inaugurated him as one of them". :confusion-scratchheadyellow:

He was one of them.
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby James S Saint » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:31 pm

Arminius wrote:
James S Saint wrote:What do I think about the H.G. Wells films?
I think that he, like many, were aware of the thoughts of powerful men. But unlike the "conspiracy theorists", he simply made fictional films exposing the concepts without naming names. That is the way to get the word out in the West.

Primarly he wrote books. Did he also make films?

No. I meant the films from his books.

Arminius wrote:
James S Saint wrote:And I still don't know what you mean by "inaugurated him as one of them". :confusion-scratchheadyellow:

He was one of them.

I just don't know what you mean by "inaugurated" as one of them. He was president and one of the founders of the RCSA, "Royal College of Science Association", a writer, and armchair-sociologist. So in that sense, he was influential in the social trends and thus "one of them". But his writings were warnings of impending potential disaster, turning out to be real. The problem is that with all stories, the ending has to be that the "good guys" win, whoever they happen to be. So he had to have the humans win, regardless of his actual preference in the matter. He was a globalist (yet anti-Zionist), as many were (and still very many are). And globalism is certainly responsible for the disaster, far more than merely technology. So yeah, he was "one of them".
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby Arminius » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:08 pm

The word "inaugurated" means something like the word "adepted", right?
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby James S Saint » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:38 pm

Arminius wrote:The word "inaugurated" means something like the word "adepted", right?

An inauguration is a ceremony to announce a member into a group, usually as a leader.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby Arminius » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:19 am

James S Saint wrote:An inauguration is a ceremony to announce a member into a group, usually as a leader.

Yeah, and that's almost exactly what I meant.
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby Arminius » Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:00 pm

James S Saint wrote:When the world is being reprogrammed, they prefer to erase the old truths before instilling the new truths. They do that by going through several generations of denying all truth (a "dark era"). By the time they get done, it might be true that the world wars never took place. Or perhaps that they were a wars that the Chinese started with the French. All books and records indicating anything other than the new history will be destroyed. And anyone implying anything other than "what everyone knows to be true" will be laughed at, before arrested and forcefully reprogrammed or just erased.

You are right: Denying the truth can also lead to an end of history, at least to a temporary end of history (until the new history begins). And you are also right by saying: All books and records indicating anything other than the new history will be destroyed. And anyone implying anything other than "what everyone knows to be true" will be laughed at, before arrested and forcefully reprogrammed or just erased. This has been becoming the real sitaution since the beginning of the "machine age".
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby James S Saint » Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:07 pm

Deus ex Machina, the aspiration and eschatology of Man.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby Arminius » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:04 pm

To you, there is no hope for the human beings, right?
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby James S Saint » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:13 pm

Arminius wrote:To you, there is no hope for the human beings, right?

I wouldn't put it at zero just yet, but it is really pushing it hard and fast.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby Arminius » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:59 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:To you, there is no hope for the human beings, right?

I wouldn't put it at zero just yet, but it is really pushing it hard and fast.

But to you (and b.t.w.: not to me!) the end of history would be almost the same like the end of human beings, right?
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby James S Saint » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:37 am

Arminius wrote:
James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:To you, there is no hope for the human beings, right?

I wouldn't put it at zero just yet, but it is really pushing it hard and fast.

But to you (and b.t.w.: not to me!) the end of history would be almost the same like the end of human beings, right?

Which one you want to refer to is arbitrary to me.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby Arminius » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:29 am

If history is lost but human development not lost, then you can see the real Eloi or the "renaissance" of the Stone Age life.
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby James S Saint » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:28 am

Arminius wrote:If history is lost but human development not lost, then you can see the real Eloi or the "renaissance" of the Stone Age life.

If you were there to see it. 8)
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby Orbie » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:15 pm

History will never be lost, only the sense of it will be lost. Keep the sense of it, You keep history.
can this be done?
[size=50][/size]Allone's Obe issance



In answer to your prayer
sincere, the centre of
your circle here,
i stand ; and , without
taking thought,-
i know nothing. But i can

Full well your need-as
you be men
This: Re-Creation. With a
bow,
Then, your obedient

servant now.
One gift is all i find in me,
And that is faithful
memory
Orbie
partly cloudy, with a few showers
 
Posts: 7596
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:34 pm
Location: Night of infinite faith

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby James S Saint » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:30 pm

obe wrote:History will never be lost, only the sense of it will be lost. Keep the sense of it, You keep history.
can this be done?

Sure. Just rewrite it every few hundred years... always fresh... always a reason to fight over it... eternal fresh carnage.

No reason to let it go to waste.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby Arminius » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:09 am

obe wrote:History will never be lost, only the sense of it will be lost. Keep the sense of it, You keep history.
can this be done?

If the sense of history will be lost, then it will make no sense to have history at all, because there will be no one who knows anything about both the sense of history and the history itself. There will be no historian, no one who knows what history and ist sense is, probably even no one with a sense for the meaning of the past for both the present and the future.

If history will totally become also a part of a modern ideology like any other cultural phenomeneon, then it will be merely part of a religious system, although a modern one, and no longer be its own system - provided that some other historical existentials will also be lost -, so the ideological (modern religious) system and its language (media) will be able then to "sweep" history under the ideological (modern religious) "carpet" and afterwards nnihilate it. That will be done, if the chance will be there - certainly. We have been seing this bad development because it has been becoming more and more obvious. Interestingly it has been having a correlation with the modern development of the machines and all the other modern developments. Thus: amongst others the machines are strongly involved in that process.
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby Moreno » Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:14 am

Arminius wrote:
obe wrote:History will never be lost, only the sense of it will be lost. Keep the sense of it, You keep history.
can this be done?

If the sense of history will be lost, then it will make no sense to have history at all, because there will be no one who knows anything about both the sense of history and the history itself. There will be no historian, no one who knows what history and ist sense is, probably even no one with a sense for the meaning of the past for both the present and the future.

If history will totally become also a part of a modern ideology like any other cultural phenomeneon, then it will be merely part of a religious system, although a modern one, and no longer be its own system - provided that some other historical existentials will also be lost -, so the ideological (modern religious) system and its language (media) will be able then to "sweep" history under the ideological (modern religious) "carpet" and afterwards nnihilate it. That will be done, if the chance will be there - certainly. We have been seing this bad development because it has been becoming more and more obvious. Interestingly it has been having a correlation with the modern development of the machines and all the other modern developments. Thus: amongst others the machines are strongly involved in that process.
It seems to me to have any certainty about the end of history, one must have great certainty about the variables for change and contact. IOW it would presume things like the standard model in physics is, say, 95 percent complete and we can from this and standard models in chem and bio, determine likely possible changes and encounters and, well, potential modes of life. Personally I think current science covers a much smaller % than its utterly loyal adherents have decided (intuitively!). So to me there is something more hypothetical than is stressed in the thread. If these standard models are correct and we generally extrapolate from them correctly and with good strong intuition, then the end of history is or will come [enter date or process step].
User avatar
Moreno
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10305
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:46 pm

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby Arminius » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:59 pm

Moreno wrote:
Arminius wrote:
obe wrote:History will never be lost, only the sense of it will be lost. Keep the sense of it, You keep history.
can this be done?

If the sense of history will be lost, then it will make no sense to have history at all, because there will be no one who knows anything about both the sense of history and the history itself. There will be no historian, no one who knows what history and ist sense is, probably even no one with a sense for the meaning of the past for both the present and the future.

If history will totally become also a part of a modern ideology like any other cultural phenomeneon, then it will be merely part of a religious system, although a modern one, and no longer be its own system - provided that some other historical existentials will also be lost -, so the ideological (modern religious) system and its language (media) will be able then to "sweep" history under the ideological (modern religious) "carpet" and afterwards nnihilate it. That will be done, if the chance will be there - certainly. We have been seing this bad development because it has been becoming more and more obvious. Interestingly it has been having a correlation with the modern development of the machines and all the other modern developments. Thus: amongst others the machines are strongly involved in that process.
It seems to me to have any certainty about the end of history, one must have great certainty about the variables for change and contact. IOW it would presume things like the standard model in physics is, say, 95 percent complete and we can from this and standard models in chem and bio, determine likely possible changes and encounters and, well, potential modes of life. Personally I think current science covers a much smaller % than its utterly loyal adherents have decided (intuitively!). So to me there is something more hypothetical than is stressed in the thread. If these standard models are correct and we generally extrapolate from them correctly and with good strong intuition, then the end of history is or will come [enter date or process step].

Yes, and with the utmost probability those standard models are correct.
Image
User avatar
Arminius
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5732
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Saltus Teutoburgiensis

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby Moreno » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:49 am

Arminius wrote:Yes, and with the utmost probability those standard models are correct.
I don't know how one determines this. Not empirically in any case. But actually there has been growing evidence that constants and laws are more local in time and space than previously thought. IOW the ontology/notion of natural law is being called into question. (which does not mean it is all just chaos, hardly) But my point was more focused on the completeness than the accuracy, though I have serious questions about the latter also. (which again does not mean I think all those experiments just ran a weird anomalous streak and mislead us.)
User avatar
Moreno
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10305
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:46 pm

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:53 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:To you, there is no hope for the human beings, right?

I wouldn't put it at zero just yet, but it is really pushing it hard and fast.

Oh, Jimmy, you're such a pessimistic creature. :mrgreen:

Humanity has often let humanity down - at first - but then it's also come to its own defenses with great courage and solidarity.

We just can't really know about the end of history.
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 15345
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A state of unknowing

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby Historyboy » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:00 pm

As Vollgraff put it, as long as there is a drive for society, there is a self-preservation instinct in people.
Life is will to power. - Nietzsche; Culture is and gives power and strength - Vollgraff; The only attribute of the mind is that he is powerful. - Aristotle; Mind is dragging us into the future and the heart into the present. - Aristotle; Those who can foresee deeds are born to rule and those who need to do them are born as slaves. - Aristotle; So, what is an aristocrat? He needs to be powerful, that means to be excellent in foreseeing things! - Me; The highest honor belongs to that one who is able to predict the moves of the enemy commander. - Machiavelli; If you want that what you have inherited to possess, you need to deserve it. - Goethe; Culture, which means exactly learning to calculate, learning to think causally, learning to prevent, learning to believe in necessity. - Nietzsche. [Autumn 1887, 10 [21]]; Morals in the narrow sense is the belief that the deeds of the ancestors will be transferred to the descendants. - Nietzsche
Historyboy
Thinker
 
Posts: 790
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:16 am

Re: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY.

Postby James S Saint » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:28 pm

Yeah, no man has ever fallen from a high mountain, because his great spirit and courage prevents his fall.
Man never gets so lustfully drunk that his will to survive doesn't prevent any car wreck.
...ummhuh.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Philosophy



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users