promethean75 wrote:because of this disconnect between our words and our actions.. I am guilty, you are guilty, we are guilty...
individually and collectively.. our words don't match our actions and that is a real problem....
P75: for some, it is because their words
do match their actions that they become so alienated and estranged from society. others, who neither have to say or do anything substantial, remain in a trivial tedium by comparison. for such people, matching or not matching words to deeds is of no great consequence and hardly noticeable at all. but all this is relative, though; i don't mean to depreciate the importance of people saying what they mean and doing what they say... only that for most people, this wouldn't prove to be a great discrepancy. if words and deeds are trivial and insignificant, what matters whether or not they match? see what i mean?
K: you offer me no examples of people who words and actions match and still are
alienated from society AND themselves.... for that is a part of alienation, alienation from
oneself... not just society......and how would you be able to know if people's words
and deeds are trivial and insignificant? from your standpoint? from whose standpoint?
everyone believes their words and actions to be of value and significant... who are
you to tell them otherwise?
and here again:
PK: you want to change society.... begin by changing yourself...
match your words with your actions...begin to think about how to better yourself..
think about what it means to be human.... begin to investigate the Socratic
method of "know thyself"...…...ask yourself about your values and are they
they values you need to become yourself...and become the values you are..
match your words with your actions.....
regarding myself, there is such a beautiful irony here that i don't want to touch it.
75: what if a fellow came along who had not only found that violent disobedience to the state was necessary and warranted, but that such violence would also achieve more in correcting the negligence of the state than any peaceful reform ever would... and even by accident? lol @ that irony! what if an anarchist fellow, who had no interest in 'bettering' the state, took to his personal revenge against the state (as a result of some betrayal at the highest level) which incidentally resulted in affecting greater change than would those deliberate actions of the peaceful (who were not betrayed) ever would? the former, completely indifferent to the effects of his deeds for the whole of society, happens to accomplish by accident as a result of his own personal war, what the latter, who makes a genuine concerted effort to change society, fails to accomplish because of the impotence of their deeds. is this not a glorious irony, bro? shirley you see it. one does with a trifle concern and with half the effort, what the other sets out to do, but fails, with the greatest of concentration and twice the effort.
PK: once again, you spin tales in the air without any examples...as I was anarchist for
many years, of the non-violent variety, I have learned that violence isn't the answer
to what ails society.. over the last 200 years of violence against the state, exactly
how many times has violence been successful in generating change in the state?
75: for the former, what he accomplishes amounts to an effortless favor... to throwing a few scraps to the people; your war is not my war, and what i do is not for you, but my victory will incidentally be your victory too. take whatever you want when i'm done here.
PK: if one proclaims for peace, is he less of a man?[/quote]
75: absolutely not, provided that he was capable of and prepared for war... that he actually was in danger of war... that he had something to lose. only under these circumstances can the resolution to be peaceful have any substance or currency. i'm afraid that too often those who call for peace are incapable of anything else... and then demand to be noticed for their virtue. ha!
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." - nietzsche[/quote]
PK: ahhh, a Nietzschian... now this hot mess makes sense.... my first
philosophical position was as a Nietzschian... oh, how I loved to dream that
I was the ubermensch and how far above the herd I was... and as I grew older,
I realized that had Nietzsche lived long enough, he would have
rejected his entire philosophy as childish drivel....
the urge to violence is the urge to obey the lower, animal instincts....
to destroy is the instinctual urge of a child in the throes of those animal
instincts, nothing more...it is easy to destroy and commit violence...
it is the natural, instinctive action that we all have.......
the reason Jesus says, "blessed be the peacemakers" is because
to seek peace means you have to rise above your natural instincts
of violence and destruction........to seek peace means you are becoming
a human being, not an animal with animal urges/instincts.....
to seek peace means you seeking cooperation and participation and
collaboration and reciprocity..... you are seeking the higher creative
level of being human.....a man seeking recompense in violence
is not a man at all, but an animal on two legs.....
we humans, we are far too comfortable and at ease with our violence,
we must turn to becoming just at ease and as comfortable with
the higher levels of being human and that means becoming
comfortable with peace....the path of peace is the path to
order, unity, love, unity, concord...…..the path of violence is the
path to discord, disharmony, disorder, harshness, disorganization,
confusion...……..
we cannot achieve peaceful order from violent means....
as a man, I am learning to become comfortable with peace...
I have learned that if I engage in violence, then I engage with my
lower, instinctual, animal self... I forsake my higher human level....
It isn't a question about Nietzsche's babbling about those without claws...
for if one lives in a peaceful world, claws aren't needed....
seek peace and love with the vigor that others seek violence
blessed are the peacemakers....the ones who seek peace and love....
Kropotkin