Would you say that, actually, there are no beginnings and ends?
If one thinks a “beginning” or/and an “end”, then there are often also thoughts like the following two questions:
“How does a beginning begin?”
“How does an end end?”
Not sure if I can explain,
For a beginning there must exist something for it to begin just as with endings.
Energies are part of material. Take a rock, you can crush it to gravel or fine sand, you can heat it to melt or become an ash of type. It did not begin as a rock it is not ending as a rock. Yet what made the rock still is. Given the proper treatments it could be a rock again.
Our bodies and what we call souls/self had to have something to make them. The material and energy had to be there. They will be there after these bodies change. The energy of self cannot cease. Look at radio or TV. Those energies and how they go from a station to your TV or radio is a proof or example of this. The fact that we can measure the brain activity shows that what we are is leaving our bodies as energy. Yet we are. Now what happens to the energy? It can not end. It changes , adds itself to like or something. Parts may end here or there it may stay cohesive as a radio wave does. Either way your memories exist as part of some thing. A forming brain may take some of the energy. It may remain together in a form that is called spirit or ghost. Think about those two words and the ways we use them other than refering to our souls out of body. When you do that apply the thoughts back to the energy of self and think about radios, TV ,even light.
This is yet another idiotic thread.
No you cannot imagine being dead. Death is the cessation of sensation and feeling.
Being dead is a contradiction in terms.
Death cannot be experienced. it cannot be imagined as a thing imagined needs content. Death is without content.
That’s why they call it death.
Kris,
You may not be able to explain it perfectly but you get the gist of the issue.
With love,
Sanjay
@ The one who is so idiotic to think this thread would be “idiotic”.
The title of this thread is a question. And if you do not know what questions mean, then ask you therapist or your hairdresser (both are the same 
).
If one can imagine (imagine!) to be dead, then this one should tell us in this thread how and why this one can imagine to be dead. In other words: This thread is meaningful, and the reactions to it show very spectacularly that it is meaningful.
So you think what is without a beginning and without an end is a ghost or a spirit as a kind of energy or just energy itself.
As soon as we say, energy exists or some kind of energy, we think of it as a ‘thing’. A thing is a measurable entity, even brain waves can be measured. But what if things do not survive death? Is love a thing, can that be measured? Is love a form of energy?
Uum I guess my warning of maybe not being able to explain , was right.
To have a beginning there must be something already existing for it to begin. For something to end there must be something absorbing the matter or energy , changing but, same.
What came first, energy or matter or both are one?
Lev Muishkin
What of experiential qualia, and colour, sound etc qualities, do they not exist? It is true that if you change the physical values of information, then you change the corresponding qualities, but we know that in our experience those things can change yet the experiencer remains throughout the changes.
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Fundamentally there cannot be a prime mover, if creation exists by the universe [causally] or other e.g. God, for creation to exist it must have been created. Creation is thus eternal and outside of universe ~ prior to and after, and because it is eternal is must be ever present throughout the universe. This is why we see life being driven, the reason ‘why’ there is a desire for survival. Creation must be doing something simply by being there.
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If either way, if you agree there can be no prime mover, then all of causality has no original cause. Ergo when you attest that ‘Death is the cessation of sensation and feeling’, this may only refer to the causal aspects of reality, but there is always a reality prior to, and fundamental to it.
_
No matter how absurd it may sound, it is true.
Brain has nothing to do with thinking. No physical entity (as we understand physical generally/scientifically ) can think. Brain is merely a data providing center for mind to think. Mind cannot interact directly with what sense organs experience. Brain acts as a mediator between physical senses and the mind.
Thinking is just like breathing. One may say that we breathe from the nose because all air goes into the body through it. But, the actual act of breathing takes places in lungs, not in the nose. Nose it merely a raw material provider. The same is with the brain. It is also merely a sensory inputs provider, which serve the purpose of raw material for the mind.
with love,
sanjay
This tunnel which you experienced, exists in reality. It is known since ages. After the death, every soul has to go through it while returning to its native spiritual realm. It can also be experienced through meditation. Both in Sufism and Hindu Sant-Mat, meditation is considered as willful and controlled dying. This may happen in the dreams too. The shape of this tunnel is curved like a new moon but upside down.
This tunnel is called Bunknal in Sant-Mat, which can be roughly translated as Crooked Tunnel. This is connector between Sahastrasar (7th plane) and Trikuti (8th place). The sufi names of these planes are Aalam-e-Jabroot and Aalam-e·Lahoot/Muslasi.
But, souls can go back there and come here again, either willingly or unwillingly.
with love,
sanjay
zinnat
Thank you for the information, it’s most interesting.
The tunnels were curved [as if they came down and towards you] as i saw them, so i suppose that could mean ‘crooked’. Can you tell me more about those planes? Is ‘Sahastrasar’ the dream level/type plane? So the tunnel goes from there to ‘Trikuti’, which would be the plane of visioning level awareness?
From what i can tell, there are many realms between this world and the otherworld, but no stories i have read have talked about the otherworld ~ except in glimpses of it. If we consider for example that the senses can get rearranged such that you can e.g. hear music from flowers. This sounds to me like a between place, and one which appears during transition rather than after full arrival in the next ‘world’.
This is the bit i don’t get, and i don’t know if eternity is not there in place of another world, or if there are other true ‘worlds’?
People sometimes say you can’t die in a dream… False. In a dream I was shot and died. All I saw of an afterlife was that everything became brilliant white. It was as if the colors of mortal existence went back to the totality of color–White. There was no tunnel. There were no images of Jesus or family and friends. I simply experienced the absence of all things personal and particular.
I’m fond of the Tibetan Book of the Dead and hope that those stages of afterlife purgation exist. Hope however does not align with my only dream of dying. It seems that in the dream I was erased as if I never existed. Maybe I misinterpret the white light. All I know is that in the dream of dying I ceased to be anything I was.
Sounds like a sensory totality, white may be the totality of qualia as experienced in a dream, in a similar sense to how white is the totality of colours.
If you are experiencing a sensory totality then that will i assume consume your entire experience leaving nothing else left being experienced. Its like how in life we can become consumed in something and it kinda takes us over. If we think of it like the ‘God-helmet’ thing, in the same way as a sense of something outside of you can be made in your mind, by rotating magnets around your head, then that your mind is taken out of its normal seat - so to say, and given a sensory experience as if your consciousness is in that manifest space.
This is what i am trying to get at when considering what of our experiences of the otherworld, are more to do with this world ~ consciousness in a brain. We know that if you change the values or type of physical information, the mental or other qualia [music, colour] also change. However an after life would not be the same as it consists of consciousness without a brain.
If you completely change/remove the causal factors, the experience would be more different than any changes of experience we get in life.
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Amorphos,
I will reply to you tomorrow.
With love,
Sanjay
To some extent.
No. There is nothing dream type thing whatsoever about these planes. Yes, they may look somewhat different in the dreams. But, they exist in reality, just in the same way our earth exists.
Shastra-Sar means the essence of a thousand. This is the seventh plane and its common name is Crown Chakra. Essence of thousand means that there are exactly one thousand different spiritual realms are located (horizontally, not vertically) at this particular plane. Trikuti is placed just above it, and it is the controller plane. All realms located up to 7th are governed from here, though they all have their local incharges too. Trikuti is the abode of Kal/Niranjan, which is called Satan in Abrahamic religions.
Let me try to explain it as simple and as succinctly as i can.
There are three levels of existence; Sthool, Suksm and Karan. Different mythologies have different names for these. We may call these as physical, subtle/mental and cause/eternal for our convenience.
In the same way, cosmology has also divided into three parts, and each part has six more subsets, which may have even more further subsets. The lowest one is our realm, the human or physical realm. It goes up to 6th plane, which is commonly known as Third Eye Chakra. Next six are Subtle/mental chakras, which go upto 12th one. All these 12 planes are open to annihilation, but the last realm, Cause or Eternal realm, never annihilates. It was forever and will be so too.
The human existence has also three layers, which correspond to three level of existences. Human body corresponds to physical realm, human soul corresponds to subtle realm, and consciousness corresponds to eternal realm. But, all these planes and realms are as real as our one. The subtle realm is as real for the soul as our world is for us. Souls take birth and dies there just as we humans do here. The same for the consciousness and eternal realm too, though consciousness neither takes birth not dies. For the consciousness, it is just a matter of reaching there and leaving from there. The problem is that human mind cannot tap other two higher realms directly. It is forbidden for a purpose. But, these can be accessed both in dreams (though, not exactly as they are) and via meditation too.
You have not heard much about those realms because it is not a common knowledge. Either people do not have any such experiences or they are unable to understand, even if they have it. Secondly, generally people do not get the experiences beyond 8th realm, though it is not impossible either.
You can ask anything further if you want. I cannot call myself an expert, but still i can give a broad idea about the basics.
with love,
sanjay
zinnat, can these different realms correspond to differing realms,
or corresponding universes, in the Western sense?
I am not sure what exactly you are asking, but it looks to me that perhaps you are asking about their interactions with each other.
If that is your intention, then yes, it happens.
with love,
sanjay
But what’s the situation there in that imagining? Wouldn’t it also depend on what one believes or if one has no belief system?
Gone to heaven hell purgatory or limbo lol (even each of those places might conjure up different separate kind of imaginings)
might be different imagining than …
Just rotting away in a grave somewhere with no eternal life?
And one if one has chosen to be cremated and their ashes thrown into the sea. That might be a different imagining… let’s say if there is no consciousness after life.
I’m not so sure that we can even begin to imagine being dead. We might come a bit close at moments when we have felt that we’ve almost stared into the abyss, when we’ve been at our most pessimistic, worse, tragic, chaotic existenial moments, when we feel there is nothing left to live more.
Then again, perhaps the best way to imagine being dead is when our lives have been the most optimal, when we’ve felt the happiest, the most joyful, the most free. Perhaps it might be easier to imagine what it feels like to be dead when we are feeling the most alive.
We imagined going to the moon and those imaginings brought us there.
We don’t have to imagine being dead in order to get there.
We might though imagine what it feels like to be free, to feel free - and eventually we might get there.
Yes, I know, I’ve said absolutely nothing here. These are just my musings. 
We can write a scenario but would it be real or fiction?