Weakness is strength??

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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby Magnus Anderson » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:49 pm

Maiden wrote:I believe you may well think I am ugly that is your perception and I cannot or do not wish to change it, let alone take offence at it, but I question the validity of a persons's appearance with what it has to do with philosophy. Voltaire writes that the toad sees beauty in large round eyes and a flat snout, and the devil sees beauty in a pair of horns and four claws.


Right, so if I think that Whites are the best looking people and that Indians, Arabs and Jews are among the worst looking people then that's simply my personal perspective conditioned by my in-group bias, which is to say, White-bias. I suppose then that Indians, due to their Indian-bias, think otherwise, and that is that Indians are the best looking people whereas Whites are not so good looking if not the worst looking people. Wouldn't that be what modern people, such as Biguous, call relativism?

I think otherwise, honey. I think that beauty is a measurement against an ideal that is more or less shared by everyone.

Indians might not be attracted to Whites due to endogamy but they will admit, I am sure, that Whites look better than them.

Beauty and attraction are two different things.
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:11 pm

MA wrote:
I think that beauty is a measurement against an ideal that is more or less shared by everyone.

Indians might not be attracted to Whites due to endogamy but they will admit, I am sure, that Whites look better than them.


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Freud wrote that humans found beauty in that which inspired sexual feelings.

Judgments of beauty are individual judgments that cannot be generalised.
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby Magnus Anderson » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:42 am

Why is he not looking at the camera?

Either way your argument is basically "if people can have different views then it's all subjective". I guess then that whether God exists or not is subjective too.
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby Crimson Crow » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:27 am

Freud wrote that humans found beauty in that which inspired sexual feelings.


So that which is considered beautiful by any person must inspire sexual feelings? ... Really? Well, let's detract the human element, and focus on other objects which are considered beautiful, say, for example, a view on a mountain top or certain animals. Does that claim still apply?
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:06 pm

Meno_ wrote:Too much, too little, too weak or too strong,who be the judge?
The safest bet is average.


I think the choice of any of those would depend on what the circumstances/situations would call for.


Aside from that, the best bet is usually a harmonious, balanced one.

Average? How boring. Have you ever heard the saying: "Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.”
― Norman Vincent Peale
:angelic-flying:
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:21 pm

Is_Yde_opN"

The next time you could just make up some definition. Eventually it can also be found on google.
Who knows, maybe you did so anyway and the google talk was just deception.

Very clever, you have outsmarted me here.


It just always confounds me when a word is defined by using the exact word.


A.D."]Maybe that is not such a bad thing. That realization might make you tred more lightly.
Sometimes what people are looking for is more understanding than simple sentimentality.

Mhm.
Understanding what the other is saying… okay, I’m taking notes here.


Have you caught up yet? A bit of shorthand would be good.
I wasn't so much speaking about understanding what a person says although that can be extremely helpful. I was speaking more about digging down and trying to understand where that person is "coming from"
~~ in a way, understanding where that person "lives", who he is at his core.



What I will say about it is the realisation that deception and self-deception only work if it is not recognised as such.


I agree with you but even more so as to the latter. But then again, maybe at times we are not even aware when we are trying to deceive others. Perhaps it becomes so engrained within us if we do it so often that it appears to be truth. It isn't just about lying - we become the Lie.

We have to be aware that we have a dark side and be unafraid to peer into it.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:23 pm

Black Crow wrote:
So that which is considered beautiful by any person must inspire sexual feelings?



Sigh...

Would you consider having sex with a person you perceived as undesirable?

From my own point of view, it would be pretty bloody awful.
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:55 pm

Magnus Anderson

Why is he not looking at the camera?


Because his hands are roaming around, silly. His eyes are intent on that.

Either way your argument is basically "if people can have different views then it's all subjective". I guess then that whether God exists or not is subjective too.


Many perspectives are subjective because it is the particular mind regarding something. But many can also be more objective than others.

Yes, the concept of a god is subjective. No one has ever proved or disproved a god's existence.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby Crimson Crow » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:39 pm

That's not the point that was made. I wasn't even talking about human sexual attraction. I was just responding to:

Freud wrote that humans found beauty in that which inspired sexual feelings.


Sexual feelings are not a prerequisite to perceiving this or that as beautiful, and also, that which inspires sexual feelings does not need to be perceived as beautiful by the subject.

Do you only find a thing beautiful if it stimulates you in that way?

Why did you change my name?

Anyway, I think that there are many different ways we come to consider a thing or a person beautiful. Generally, and this is the type or experience of beauty most people allude to, its related to certain forms we are receptive/sensitive to - this type of beauty is a response to sensory stimuli. Other ways we come to experience beauty is due to our own personal experiences which lead us to respond to certain stimuli more strongly than we would have without those experiences - this type of beauty is a response to, or consequence of, historical awareness or past events (this is related to the first point, but within a tighter time frame). Beauty is an experience, what's the point of limiting it to, or conflating it with, the perception of physical symmetry or otherwise? Many people can appreciate great physical symmetry, and nevertheless, have no experience of beauty. Happens all the time, constantly.
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby MagsJ » Mon May 08, 2017 4:32 pm

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Mags ... chances are ... you will see people in a different light ... you will see places in a different light ... you will experience "experiences" in a different light. At least lots of empirical evidence support such an outcome for people who have shared a similar life threatening experience. Kriswest comes to mind.

I will confer with Kris when she's back.. she's not been on for a while.

I have found that I'm even more lassiez faire/care not than I used to be, but at the same time more sterner, but still resolving issues with others in a hypocratic way.. like I've always done.

Perhaps ... just perhaps ... you have joined the community who have the fortitude to forego their earthly bread ... figuratively speaking. You have joined the community of the 'weak' who are at the same time very strong.
Yes, and I've found them on a CF forum where we swap advice and give support to each other.. which nobody else can truly understand or give, or the entailing dark humour that goes with it.

experience is our teacher ... perhaps ... just perhaps ... your experience was necessary to point you in the right direction to fulfill your life's purpose.
Lord, you provide the pricks to move us in the direction you want us to go.

St Augustine
So I had to nearly die to see more clearly? I'm not sold on the idea, but I'm not sceptical of it..

science/biology is unable to answer many many questions about human life.
They cannot currently undo the state of human hibernation that some of us have found ourselves in, but they think it a reaction to a toxic world to survive... says a lot about the current state of our planet, food, and environment, doesn't it.
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby WendyDarling » Mon May 08, 2017 10:39 pm

Without a lacking, a weakness, why would we grow to be more, better, than we were? What does perfection need to be or do?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue May 09, 2017 3:59 am

MagsJ wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Mags ... chances are ... you will see people in a different light ... you will see places in a different light ... you will experience "experiences" in a different light. At least lots of empirical evidence support such an outcome for people who have shared a similar life threatening experience. Kriswest comes to mind.


I have found that I'm even more lassiez faire/care not than I used to be, but at the same time more sterner, but still resolving issues with others in a hypocratic way.. like I've always done.


That's a positive sign Mags ... at the end of this post I reprinted some babble I wrote about 15 years ago ... at the time I was already 10 years past my 'milestone' experience and still wasn't sure what was going on.

MagsJ wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Perhaps ... just perhaps ... you have joined the community who have the fortitude to forego their earthly bread ... figuratively speaking. You have joined the community of the 'weak' who are at the same time very strong.


Yes, and I've found them on a CF forum where we swap advice and give support to each other.. which nobody else can truly understand or give, or the entailing dark humour that goes with it.


I have always found we get precisely the help we need ... when we need it ... even when we are not aware that we need it.

MagsJ wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:experience is our teacher ... perhaps ... just perhaps ... your experience was necessary to point you in the right direction to fulfill your life's purpose.
Lord, you provide the pricks to move us in the direction you want us to go.

St Augustine


So I had to nearly die to see more clearly? I'm not sold on the idea, but I'm not sceptical of it.


There may be a mathematical relationship between the severity of the 'jolt' and the difficulty of the task(s) that lie ahead. Such a serious 'jolt' suggests you will be facing some serious and difficult task(s).

MagsJ wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:science/biology is unable to answer many many questions about human life.


They cannot currently undo the state of human hibernation that some of us have found ourselves in, but they think it a reaction to a toxic world to survive... says a lot about the current state of our planet, food, and environment, doesn't it.


Hibernation is a wonderful choice of words ... it's a survival instinct ... sleep when nature doesn't provide conditions or food conducive to survival. I went into "hibernation" mode several times during the past 25 years. Seems we are brought out of hibernation when the circumstances are appropriate to our journey.


After 43 years of shaping my personal world view, largely conforming to mainstream society, it was unexpectedly shattered in 1993. For the first year or so afterwards the destruction of my former world view took place within my inner self without my conscious knowledge of what was happening. Later the transformation of my world view manifested itself in my altered perceptions of the physical and spiritual world.
Several years ago I contemplated the parallels between what happens during the incubation of an egg and the transformation of inner self.
An egg is just an egg until it hatches.
”Since then my daily reflections often went back to the image of a chicken egg ... and what it may symbolize. The parallels between a spiritual awakening and the emergence of a chick from the egg were often part of my contemplation. My mind went to the incubation period ... the time between the chicken egg coming into our physical world and the chicks' exit from the egg shell.
My mind drew a connection between this incubation period of the chicken egg and the book “Dark Night of the Soul” written by St John of the Cross where he describes his souls secret journey to the Divine. What is particularly impressive is that St John could write such a masterpiece while imprisoned by his fellow monks for heresy.
Seems there are many parallels:
• we have no idea what is happening inside the egg ... in the dark night of the chick. The transformation of what we know as egg white and egg yoke into a living breathing walking fuzzy little yellow chick.
• we have no way of participating in the transformation. Neither does the mother hen. All she can do is sit on the egg, Keep it warm and protect it from harm.
• the transformation requires nothing from the external environment; nothing from our physical world, aside from the warmth and protection provided by the mother hen.
• finally the transformation from egg white and egg yoke to a living chick cannot be hurried along. Any attempt to expedite the process is fatal for the developing chick.
Much is written about spiritual transformation, spiritual growth, spiritual awakening and spiritual conversion. All these terms are used to describe something we don't fully understand. Seems to me that people who suddenly find they want to respond to some mysterious yearning within have already traveled a long way. The new life has been developing in their inner self without any conscious awareness.
The conscious awareness may be viewed as the equivalent of the chicken egg showing up in the nest; still a long way from hatching. Nonetheless, all that is required now exists. We have acquired the conscious knowledge that it exists, we see the egg in the nest, we feel the mysterious yearning.
As mentioned above, nothing external is required for further progress, only warmth and protection from harm.
Warmth and protection from harm in today's world is almost impossible to find. The egg in the metaphor is most often constantly subjected to cold and aggressive hostility ... why?? Is there some unknown force fighting to destroy the emergence of spiritual awakening?
T.E. Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia) labeled the society of his day "Life by Competition". The word competition infers winners and losers, struggle, aggression, insensitivity ... the antithesis of warmth and tenderness. Since the time of T.E. Lawrence the pervasiveness of competition in society has increased exponentially. Contrast this situation with one of the pillars of ancient Chinese philosophy (Lao Tsu)where they discouraged competition and promoted the avoidance of competition. Seems the sages of ancient China understood the destructive potency embedded in competition.
Nonetheless we must be prepared to crawl inside the egg ... into the darkness ... the unknown ... and wait patiently and humbly.
Living in society today is like walking in the pouring rain without an umbrella. One gets wet ... one gets soaked!! Likewise for the person on a journey of spiritual enlightenment ... the soul is constantly contaminated simply living day to day life. Some people advocate retreating from the world or abusing our body or mind in an attempt to arouse a spiritual state. While these approaches have proved successful for some they are certainly not universal with many more failures than successes. What then?
Most people on a spiritual journey are either destroyed by the cold and abrasive nature of today’s society or they lose their patience. The desire for linear and timely progress is fraught with persistent disappointment. As a result they surrender their quest and return to mainstream society. The rope bride analogy
The image I received the other day was someone standing on top of the egg with a sledge hammer trying to break the egg open. Yelling hatch! ... it's time! ... I know it's time! ... hatch! Eventually the 'egg' breaks and instead of a living chick all we get is egg white and egg yoke spilling out all over the place ... we cannot hurry the process!
Seems to me this attempt to control or to hurry the transformation is the underlying cause of most religious violence. The word religion means to reconnect with God, inferring that religion is a journey to God with each form of religion providing their exclusive roadmap (dogma, doctrine and ritual) and hostilities develop because of the differences. Human attempts to control the journey to God are analogous to the image of trying to expedite the hatching of the egg mentioned earlier.
Yet when the time comes for the egg to hatch the chick inside must exert some energy to break the shell; intellectual and physical effort is required to achieve life … achieve freedom … the young chick pecks on the shell until it breaks.
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby MagsJ » Fri May 12, 2017 2:18 pm

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:That's a positive sign Mags ... at the end of this post I reprinted some babble I wrote about 15 years ago ... at the time I was already 10 years past my 'milestone' experience and still wasn't sure what was going on.
I do not think I am yet in a position to self-analyse my situation, but I can see the manifestation of the effect from the cause(s) and the journey that got me there.. my visualisation of the situation is of a train.. as opposed to your egg, but a rusty rust-bucket of a train.. a deserted one.. not one all shiny and in service.

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pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:There may be a mathematical relationship between the severity of the 'jolt' and the difficulty of the task(s) that lie ahead. Such a serious 'jolt' suggests you will be facing some serious and difficult task(s).
Not a good situation for those that aren't great with responsibility to find themselves in :|

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Hibernation is a wonderful choice of words ... it's a survival instinct ... sleep when nature doesn't provide conditions or food conducive to survival. I went into "hibernation" mode several times during the past 25 years. Seems we are brought out of hibernation when the circumstances are appropriate to our journey.
Do you have any idea what triggered yours? Did the state diminish the quality of your life.. relationship/career wise? and what brought you out of it/of the cycle?
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat May 13, 2017 12:52 am

MagsJ wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:That's a positive sign Mags ... at the end of this post I reprinted some babble I wrote about 15 years ago ... at the time I was already 10 years past my 'milestone' experience and still wasn't sure what was going on.
I do not think I am yet in a position to self-analyse my situation, but I can see the manifestation of the effect from the cause(s) and the journey that got me there.. my visualisation of the situation is of a train.. as opposed to your egg, but a rusty rust-bucket of a train.. a deserted one.. not one all shiny and in service.


"a rusty rust-bucket of a train" ... very a propos analogy Mags ... a caterpillar is not very attractive either ... but who doesn't love a butterfly. :)

MagsJ wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:There may be a mathematical relationship between the severity of the 'jolt' and the difficulty of the task(s) that lie ahead. Such a serious 'jolt' suggests you will be facing some serious and difficult task(s).
Not a good situation for those that aren't great with responsibility to find themselves in :|


Mags ... not sure if my memory serves me well ... senility set in some time ago ... seems I recall you taking some test post on ILP and the results clearly labelled you as a "leader" ... you replied something to the effect ... I prefer to sit in the middle of the bus and observe. The term "reluctant saint" comes to mind. :)

MagsJ wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Hibernation is a wonderful choice of words ... it's a survival instinct ... sleep when nature doesn't provide conditions or food conducive to survival. I went into "hibernation" mode several times during the past 25 years. Seems we are brought out of hibernation when the circumstances are appropriate to our journey.
Do you have any idea what triggered yours? Did the state diminish the quality of your life.. relationship/career wise? and what brought you out of it/of the cycle?


I prefer to believe the "how it happened" is irrelevant ... the result is always the same ... it's like being "thrown off the train" ... "plucked out of the crowd" . In the very early stages of my milestone experience the local priest said to me ... "If God is calling you ... He will call you alone" I understood his comment to mean God will hearken no competition ... no distractions. :)

Mags I have published more than 700 pages of babble ... some anecdotal (answers to your questions) ... some thoughts ... some opinions etc. When I read my earlier babble I clearly see how my thinking has changed ... evolved ... over the past 25 years.

http://pilgrimtom.weebly.com/

http://thoughtsofamisfit.weebly.com/
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat May 13, 2017 1:07 am

Mags ... I learned the term "reluctant saint" recently ... here ... http://decentfilms.com/articles/reluctantsaint
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby MagsJ » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:51 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:"a rusty rust-bucket of a train" ... very a propos analogy Mags ... a caterpillar is not very attractive either ... but who doesn't love a butterfly. :)

Not so much a transformation as a re-introduction to self.. I guess a jolt would facilitate the need for that in anyone?

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Mags ... not sure if my memory serves me well ... senility set in some time ago ... seems I recall you taking some test post on ILP and the results clearly labelled you as a "leader" ... you replied something to the effect ... I prefer to sit in the middle of the bus and observe. The term "reluctant saint" comes to mind. :)

..or simply just nosey? :D

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:I prefer to believe the "how it happened" is irrelevant ... the result is always the same ... it's like being "thrown off the train" ... "plucked out of the crowd" . In the very early stages of my milestone experience the local priest said to me ... "If God is calling you ... He will call you alone" I understood his comment to mean God will hearken no competition ... no distractions. :)

..it is indeed a lone predicament to be in.. a retrospective journey for one, but yet they compete and distract. How did you cope?

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Mags I have published more than 700 pages of babble ... some anecdotal (answers to your questions) ... some thoughts ... some opinions etc. When I read my earlier babble I clearly see how my thinking has changed ... evolved ... over the past 25 years.

http://pilgrimtom.weebly.com/

http://thoughtsofamisfit.weebly.com/

Over 700 pages :o I hope it's chaptered and headed..

Apologies for the late reply.. I've been taken up with gathering myself and my thoughts of late..
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby MagsJ » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:17 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Mags ... I learned the term "reluctant saint" recently ... here ... http://decentfilms.com/articles/reluctantsaint

What were you doing there Tom? :D

From that article, it seems that Saints are simply different/stand out, but that's what I got out of it. What did you glean from the words?
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:51 pm

MagsJ wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:"a rusty rust-bucket of a train" ... very a propos analogy Mags ... a caterpillar is not very attractive either ... but who doesn't love a butterfly. :)

Not so much a transformation as a re-introduction to self.. I guess a jolt would facilitate the need for that in anyone?


A re-introduction to self has a familiar ring to it. In the early years ... after my watershed moment ... a look at my former self revealed that my former self was not my true self. The demands of society/culture pounded some of my true self into oblivion. Since that time my true self has percolated to the surface.

MagsJ wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:I prefer to believe the "how it happened" is irrelevant ... the result is always the same ... it's like being "thrown off the train" ... "plucked out of the crowd" . In the very early stages of my milestone experience the local priest said to me ... "If God is calling you ... He will call you alone" I understood his comment to mean God will hearken no competition ... no distractions. :)

..it is indeed a lone predicament to be in.. a retrospective journey for one, but yet they compete and distract. How did you cope?


At times ... too many to count ... coping was a serious struggle. Eventually the following strategies took hold ...

1) Surrender

2) Wu Wei

MagsJ wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Mags I have published more than 700 pages of babble ... some anecdotal (answers to your questions) ... some thoughts ... some opinions etc. When I read my earlier babble I clearly see how my thinking has changed ... evolved ... over the past 25 years.

http://pilgrimtom.weebly.com/

http://thoughtsofamisfit.weebly.com/

Over 700 pages :o I hope it's chaptered and headed..


Does that suggest you haven't read all my babble yet? :shock:

MagsJ wrote:Apologies for the late reply.. I've been taken up with gathering myself and my thoughts of late..


Happy to learn you are making some progress.
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:00 pm

MagsJ wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Mags ... I learned the term "reluctant saint" recently ... here ... http://decentfilms.com/articles/reluctantsaint

What were you doing there Tom? :D

From that article, it seems that Saints are simply different/stand out, but that's what I got out of it. What did you glean from the words?


Can't remember the details but Youtube/Google algorithms triggered the visit ... first to the movie and later the article.

Every once in a while Guiseppe ...the reluctant saint ... talks to me ... or I talk to him. :)

Happens when I'm reluctant to feed my wife's geese, chickens and ducks ... 21 in total. I'm usually totally spent at the time from helping with my wife's farming project.

Guess that means Guiseppe encourages me to be more thoughtful towards animals ... kindness to animals must surely lead to an uptick in kindness to people ... no?
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby MagsJ » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:13 pm

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote: A re-introduction to self has a familiar ring to it. In the early years ... after my watershed moment ... a look at my former self revealed that my former self was not my true self. The demands of society/culture pounded some of my true self into oblivion. Since that time my true self has percolated to the surface.

...and now I have joined you in that percolation of true self... it's a less-stressful self to be, and simply means taking a step back from society and once again observing rather than partaking, and only partake of life with those of a similar ilk or not partake at all.. I simply cannot not afford to do that any more.

... coping was a serious struggle.

...once the decision is made, and wheels set in motion, coping isn't a struggle anymore. The decision to please others at the expense of self has come to an abrupt end, for they are happy when we suffer discontent... my mother would be so pleased. :icon-rolleyes:
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby phyllo » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:22 pm

...and now I have joined you in that percolation of true self... it's a less-stressful self to be, and simply means taking a step back from society and once again observing rather than partaking, and only partake of life with those of a similar ilk or not partake at all..
If you only hang out with people of "a similar ilk", then you don't grow.

One becomes better by being challenged.
"Who loves not wine, woman and song, remains a fool his whole life long."

"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:39 am

...and now I have joined you in that percolation of true self...


Reminds me of John Lennon ... the community he sings about is growing steadily ... one individual at a time ... in their own way ... on their own terms ... at the appropriate time.

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
Some day I hope you'll join us
And the world will live as one.



it's a less-stressful self to be, and simply means taking a step back from society and once again observing rather than partaking, and only partake of life with those of a similar ilk or not partake at all..


Cave dwellers, desert fathers, the monastic culture were born of the same sentiment. Some people lament at the decline of church and monastic patrons ... I see it as positive. The institutional church continues to fulfill it's role and "death" is a part of the process ... the last phase. As Augustine said ... each successive word we utter must die to make room for the next word.

The "death" of the institutional church has created empty space as a womb for the next paradigm. For the past several centuries secular institutions filled this space ... though they have chosen to play the same game ... expecting a different result ... ergo Thucydides "The strong will do as they wish and the weak will suffer as they must."


...once the decision is made, and wheels set in motion


Ah yes ... the "decision" ... the mysterious inflection point ... a decision so many contemplate ... a decision so few make. NT "many are invited ... few are chosen."

I like Augustine's metaphor ...

Thus with the baggage of the world I was sweetly burdened, as one in slumber, and my musings on thee were like the efforts of those who desire to awake, but who are still overpowered with drowsiness and fall back into deep slumber. And as no one wishes to sleep forever (for all men rightly count waking better) -- yet a man will usually defer shaking off his drowsiness


I watched a documentary on part of the life of Ste Teresa of Avila ... yesterday was her Feast Day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9xJe_aabaI

Seems it took her 20+ years to reach the deflection point ... and she wrestled with church leaders all along the way ... she wanted to "wake up" and church leaders wanted her to go back to sleep.

The decision to please others at the expense of self has come to an abrupt end, for they are happy when we suffer discontent...


Anything less would be suicidal.

my mother would be [b]so pleased. :icon-rolleyes:


Your comment triggers ... at least in me ... a torrent of empathy and compassion. Like so many others your mother lived a life conscious of her misery yet without the blessing associated with "waking up".
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:42 am

phyllo wrote:
...and now I have joined you in that percolation of true self... it's a less-stressful self to be, and simply means taking a step back from society and once again observing rather than partaking, and only partake of life with those of a similar ilk or not partake at all..
If you only hang out with people of "a similar ilk", then you don't grow.

One becomes better by being challenged.


If you "wake up" you will feel differently ... and feel much better.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby phyllo » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:39 pm

If you "wake up" you will feel differently ... and feel much better.
Wake up to what? Wake up how? :sleeping-sleeping:

Maybe THIS is my true self. Why not? O:)
"Who loves not wine, woman and song, remains a fool his whole life long."

"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby Alf » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:37 pm

Why should weakness be strength? Don't you know that weakness is already weakness and that sterngth is already strength?
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