Are you a racist?

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Re: Are you a racist?

Postby encode_decode » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:15 pm

Urwrongx1000

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Race mixing and miscegenation is a recent, new world phenomenon, that requires excessive ideological crusading to convince people to do.

Historically, the races did not mix, and do not. The costs are too high, and rewards too low. Mixed race children and people are instinctively identified as outsiders of the main world races. Shunned too, in many cases.

You can't use a rarity, an exception, as the rule.

And yes, to prefer your own child, is to prefer your own race and specie.

Have you ever heard of line breeding?

:lol:
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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:23 pm

    Void_X_Zero wrote:Your kid happens to have the same color hair as you....

    "Happens to" as if it's a matter of luck?


    Void_X_Zero wrote:The reason why we prefer our own children to other children is not because our own children are our own race.

    Unfortunately for you, children are of the same race as the parents. Does that bother you deeply?

    Do you hate the idea that common mating between humans, is inherently "racist"?
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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:26 pm

    encode_decode wrote:Have you ever heard of line breeding?

    :lol:

    I've heard of pure breeding, of horses to jump higher and run faster. Also there is dog breeding, quite common, for shows and competitions. In either case, genes and blood lines are very sensitive. No mixing lines and breeds. No inferior breeds. As a breeder, this is common sense.

    Now, I ask you and other anti-racists, does breeding apply to humanity, or not? Are some lines of humans "engineered"? Are you? Do you "choose" your mates, or somebody else, for you? If mixing blood lines is bad in horses and dogs, then would it also be bad in humans?

    Simple questions, and as Only_Humean mentioned earlier, be honest. That means, answering my questions directly and succinctly.
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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby UrGod » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:51 pm

    Urwrongx1000 wrote:
    Void_X_Zero wrote:Your kid happens to have the same color hair as you....

    "Happens to" as if it's a matter of luck?


    Void_X_Zero wrote:The reason why we prefer our own children to other children is not because our own children are our own race.

    Unfortunately for you, children are of the same race as the parents. Does that bother you deeply?

    Do you hate the idea that common mating between humans, is inherently "racist"?


    You really don't get it, do you? Your intellectual capacity seems insufficient to carry on this conversation. Sorry about that.
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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:55 pm

    Tell me again how a child "happens to" have the same hair as one of his or her parents. Luck, is it?

    How "lucky" does a Japanese couple have to be, to give birth to African, Indian, or European children?

    What's the % like 50-50?
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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby UrGod » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:52 pm

    You're putting the cart before the horse. I've already explained how race is secondary and derivative, and individual/family is primary. This is basic genetics. And I've already shown how you care for your own children not because they are your own race, rather you care about their "race" because you care about them qua being your child.

    You keep insisting on reversing the logic. I don't know how to get you to stop doing that, so I'll just ignore any future posts of yours that commit the same logical error.
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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:50 pm

    Urwrongx1000 wrote:You're walking down a sidewalk in London with your 6 year old child a few feet away from you on your left. You're visiting and touring, on vacation. There's another child walking with his or her parent on your right, also a few feet away. Then, out of nowhere, a truck comes barreling down the sidewalk, headed straight for you. On reflex, you can dive to save one of the children. Your own child, to the left, pushing him or her out of the way. Or you can save the stranger's child to the right.

    Which will you choose? Left, your own child? Or right, the stranger's child?

    Oh yeah, I almost forgot to add one little detail. Your own child, biologically, is your same race. The stranger's child, is a different race.

    So, are you a racist, or aren't you?


    Why would you even consider this question? Your first instinct is - at least mine would be - always to save your own child even if he/she got away from you and was more, much more distant than the black child was. There is no shame in that.

    You might call to some other adult to try to save the *other* child. You would probably feel guilt and remorse if that other child was killed despite the fact that it probably couldn't be helped unless you were the Flash.

    That isn't what racism is about. Racism is about thinking that because you are white, you are superior in every way, to an African American or other black person. It's about hating African Americans or other black people simply because they are.

    Racism goes beyond tunnel vision. There is no true vision.
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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:52 pm

    phyllo wrote:What does that have to do with racism? You made one child a member of your family.

    If you had said that you are equidistant from two children, neither is related to you, but one is your race and the other is a different race, then it may be about racism ...


    Yes, *may be* about racism. On the other hand, it might just be some unexplainable fluke that made you go in one direction as opposed to another.
    SAPERE AUDE!


    If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


    What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:53 pm

    Urwrongx1000 wrote:Looks like everybody is choosing their own child, lots of racists here...


    Do you have any children, Wrong?
    SAPERE AUDE!


    If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


    What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:57 pm

    Urwrongx1000 wrote:The "dishonest" ones are the ones preaching to others to "not be racist", while themselves, are with impunity.


    Tell me, how does one even go about preaching to others to *not be racist*?
    SAPERE AUDE!


    If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


    What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:07 pm

    Urwrongx1000 wrote:Looks like everybody is choosing their own child, lots of racists here...


    Here is the white man and here is the black man.
    The white man turns in the black man for being a rapist ~ for raping a child, color is not important. The child can be green for that matter.
    Is the white man a racist?
    Am I a racist for detesting this black man or maybe I'm simply detesting the INDIVIDUAL for his act?

    Of course, right from the beginning after beginning to read this, you might call me a racist because I used the black man as an example of being a rapist. But don't forget, we're talking about racism here.

    We all have our biases. I am quite aware of mine. Anyone, for the moment, without being fully conscious of who they are and what their feelings and thoughts are, might begin to succumb to some form of racism in the moment because of some dynamic. I suppose that might be part of the instinct to survive ~ maybe. But generally, the non-racist judges the INDIVIDUAL based on what he or she has done, not based on the color of their skin.

    Other things also are not about racism - just about personal preferences.
    I like this painting and you like that one. Does that mean that I hate art, that I don't value it?
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    If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


    What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:38 pm

    Void_X_Zero wrote:You're putting the cart before the horse. I've already explained how race is secondary and derivative, and individual/family is primary. This is basic genetics. And I've already shown how you care for your own children not because they are your own race, rather you care about their "race" because you care about them qua being your child.

    You keep insisting on reversing the logic. I don't know how to get you to stop doing that, so I'll just ignore any future posts of yours that commit the same logical error.

    Whose logic is reversed though? To care about your child, is necessarily to care about your race, making you and everybody else that cares for their children, racists.
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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:43 pm

    Arcturus Descending wrote:Why would you even consider this question?

    Because most or all of the "anti-racists" go on and on about how tragic and guilty people ought to be for racism, yet they are racists themselves.

    So it's not about "racism" exactly. It's about duplicity. It's about the advantage some people get from making others guilty for racism, but themselves, enjoy the benefits and privileges of "being racist". Preferring one's own kind is the first step. It can be good or bad, given the context. Would you turn your child, spouse, parent, or family member in for a crime? How about a serious crime? To what degree of loyalty and "care" do average people demonstrate toward family, and then toward race?

    I understand if these questions frighten and scare you, keep you up all night.
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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby James S Saint » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:48 pm

    Urwrongx1000 wrote:
    Void_X_Zero wrote:You're putting the cart before the horse. I've already explained how race is secondary and derivative, and individual/family is primary. This is basic genetics. And I've already shown how you care for your own children not because they are your own race, rather you care about their "race" because you care about them qua being your child.

    You keep insisting on reversing the logic. I don't know how to get you to stop doing that, so I'll just ignore any future posts of yours that commit the same logical error.

    Whose logic is reversed though? To care about your child, is necessarily to care about your race, making you and everybody else that cares for their children, racists.

    Assuming that you are not just having fun with it, you actually are making a logical fallacy and false allegation.

    Racism is choosing because of race.
    Choosing one's own child is not because of race, but because of familial association.

    The end result is that race benefits, but that is a consequence, not a cause.

    And the race of the child is not necessarily the same as either parent.
    Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
    Else
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    The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

    You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:58 pm

    James S Saint wrote:Assuming that you are not just having fun with it, you actually are making a logical fallacy and false allegation.

    Racism is choosing because of race.
    Choosing one's own child is not because of race, but because of familial association.

    The end result is that race benefits, but that is a consequence, not a cause.

    And the race of the child is not necessarily the same as either parent.

    No, the "cause" of "racism" is in-group preference. If you care for your child, because the child is necessarily of the same race as both parents, then it follows you necessarily care for your race by default. This is just common sense and intuitive on such a level that nobody questions or acknowledges it. Now the accusation and definitions of "racism" change over time. But that is a derivative, the consequence of, in-group preference.

    Therefore, people can be accused of "racism", based on modern definitions, for preferring their own kin.
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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby James S Saint » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:02 pm

    Urwrongx1000 wrote:the "cause" of "racism" is in-group preference.

    Largly true.
    Urwrongx1000 wrote: If you care for your child, because the child is necessarily of the same race as both parents, then it follows you necessarily care for your race by default.

    False.

    Urwrongx1000 wrote: This is just common sense and intuitive on such a level that nobody questions or acknowledges it.

    Well, just gauging by the responses that you have gotten, not to mention my own knowledge of logic and reasoning, it is obviously not all that "common" sense.

    Urwrongx1000 wrote:Therefore, people can be accused of "racism", based on modern definitions, for preferring their own kin.

    Also false.


    Look at it this way:
    If one of the children was wearing white and the other was wearing black, and the one you chose was wearing white, does that make you a white supremacist?
    Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
    Else
    From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

    The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

    You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
    The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
    It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
    As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

    Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
    Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

    The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
    .
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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:12 pm

    James S Saint wrote:False.

    I can't simplify it further.

    To care for your child, is necessarily to care for your own race.

    You and Void have it backward.
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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby James S Saint » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:16 pm

    Urwrongx1000 wrote:You and Void have it backward.

    Again, assuming that you are not just joking around...

    Tell us how you would distinguish forward from backward in such cases as this without appealing to merely your "common sense instinct"? And if you cannot, how do you know that it isn't you who "has it backward"?
    Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
    Else
    From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

    The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

    You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
    The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
    It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
    As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

    Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
    Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

    The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
    .
    James S Saint
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    Posts: 25778
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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:26 pm

    Because race is the consequence of mating and not the other way around.
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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby James S Saint » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:34 pm

    Urwrongx1000 wrote:Because race is the consequence of mating and not the other way around.

    That didn't answer the question. I asked of the process for distinguishing backward vs forward .. concerning any issue, not merely race issues (which seem to be an obsession of yours).

    And yes, mating causes race. That was never the question.

    The question is whether choosing one's own child to save is the same as preferring one race over another. What of those who bear children that are not of either race, the new "Gray Race"?
    Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
    Else
    From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

    The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

    You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
    The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
    It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
    As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

    Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
    Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

    The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
    .
    James S Saint
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    Posts: 25778
    Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:45 pm

    Forward means that race proceeds from family.

    And earlier I mentioned to Void that race-mixing, the exception does not dispute the rule. Race-mixing and miscegenation are recent in history, or at points in history with explanation, such as one nation conquering another, or conquering and occupying a previously foreign territory. Generally, commonly, the "races" congregate with each-other, because organisms naturally trust their own kind, and those that look, act, and smell/taste like each-other.

    It is a dubious fact that two people, of distinct races, like a white male and black female, will procreate a racially ambiguous offspring. However, despite that, the "race" maybe questionable although the rules stay the same. You could call it a new race if you wanted.
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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby James S Saint » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:53 pm

    Urwrongx1000 wrote:Forward means that race proceeds from family.

    So you are saying that whichever comes first tells of which caused which? And of course that assumes a causal relation to begin with. If I ate breakfast at Jack-in-the-Box then got hit by a car, can I assume that eating breakfast at JiB caused that accident? If I hadn't eaten breakfast there, I certainly would not have had that accident.

    Urwrongx1000 wrote:And earlier I mentioned to Void that race-mixing, the exception does not dispute the rule. Race-mixing and miscegenation are recent in history, or at points in history with explanation, such as one nation conquering another, or conquering and occupying a previously foreign territory. Generally, commonly, the "races" congregate with each-other, because organisms naturally trust their own kind, and those that look, act, and smell/taste like each-other.

    So trusting your own kind is the cause of racism. To avoid racism, people should distrust their own kind (sounds familiar).

    Urwrongx1000 wrote:It is a dubious fact that two people, of distinct races, like a white male and black female, will procreate a racially ambiguous offspring. However, despite that, the "race" maybe questionable although the rules stay the same. You could call it a new race if you wanted.

    There is nothing "ambiguous" about it. Black men fucking white women creates a new race, the "Gray Race".

    So when the black man chooses to save his own gray child, he must be a racist against blacks and/or whites.
    Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
    Else
    From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

    The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

    You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
    The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
    It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
    As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

    Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
    Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

    The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
    .
    James S Saint
    ILP Legend
     
    Posts: 25778
    Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:08 pm

    Causes are primary. To seek the causes of a car accident at JITB, you have to determine, judge, and choose whether you-yourself are responsible, or others. Blame is easy. You can blame the driver. You can blame yourself. You can blame God. Blame avoids the issue of cause though. Ultimately, more context is needed. For example, did you look both directions before crossing the street? Maybe you didn't look both ways, stepped out in front of a vehicle? Was the driver crazy? Did he drive his or her vehicle into the glass windows and seating area of the restaurant? Was it a Muslim seeking to rack up kills? Did he step out of the vehicle with a machete and start whacking strangers, including you?

    Deep investigations are required to pinpoint causes of events.

    "So trusting your own kind is the cause of racism." That sums it up well enough. Furthermore, distrust of others or other kinds, also "causes racism". And yes, if there are 'gray' children then they are racially ambiguous. Race is an abstraction, after all. In my opinion, mixed-racial children cannot simply claim the race of either one parent or the other. And it's simplest to acknowledge they are something new, for better or worse.
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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby UrGod » Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:14 pm

    Urwrongx1000 wrote:
    Void_X_Zero wrote:You're putting the cart before the horse. I've already explained how race is secondary and derivative, and individual/family is primary. This is basic genetics. And I've already shown how you care for your own children not because they are your own race, rather you care about their "race" because you care about them qua being your child.

    You keep insisting on reversing the logic. I don't know how to get you to stop doing that, so I'll just ignore any future posts of yours that commit the same logical error.

    Whose logic is reversed though? To care about your child, is necessarily to care about your race,


    No, not at all.

    making you and everybody else that cares for their children, racists.


    Nope, wrong again.
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    Re: Are you a racist?

    Postby encode_decode » Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:31 pm

      Urwrongx1000

      Urwrongx1000 wrote:Causes are primary. To seek the causes of a car accident at JITB, you have to determine, judge, and choose whether you-yourself are responsible, or others. Blame is easy. You can blame the driver. You can blame yourself. You can blame God. Blame avoids the issue of cause though.

      You are saying trusting your own kind is the primary cause of racism.

      Urwrongx1000 wrote:Ultimately, more context is needed. For example, did you look both directions before crossing the street? Maybe you didn't look both ways, stepped out in front of a vehicle? Was the driver crazy? Did he drive his or her vehicle into the glass windows and seating area of the restaurant? Was it a Muslim seeking to rack up kills? Did he step out of the vehicle with a machete and start whacking strangers, including you?

      Are you sure you have enough context for your primary cause?

      Urwrongx1000 wrote:Deep investigations are required to pinpoint causes of events.

      I don't believe your investigation is very deep.

      Urwrongx1000 wrote:"So trusting your own kind is the cause of racism." That sums it up well enough. Furthermore, distrust of others or other kinds, also "causes racism". And yes, if there are 'gray' children then they are racially ambiguous. Race is an abstraction, after all. In my opinion, mixed-racial children cannot simply claim the race of either one parent or the other. And it's simplest to acknowledge they are something new, for better or worse.

      Technically "your own kind" is ambiguous. So no it does not sum it up.

      You are now adding more factors to your original logic:

      Urwrongx1000 wrote:Furthermore, distrust of others or other kinds, also "causes racism".

      You are making up rules as you go. Let me introduce something: I assume you have heard of Gregor Mendel - no quick google search allowed. Race is a bit more than an abstraction; you can not really say that the first offspring is a new race either, can you?

      I fail to see how any of this is useful to the benefit of humankind.

      :-k
        Neosophi | οἶκος | ἀγορά

        It’s not that truth itself is being eroded per se, it’s that fragmental falsification appears to be increasing.
        (Anomaly654 - 2017)

        But the point remains that you can't get at that meaning before grasping the surface meaning
        - which is to say there is always meaning.

        (gib - 2017)

        Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion.
        (Myself - 2017)
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