Death

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Re: Death

Postby zinnat » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:16 am

WendyDarling wrote:How do you support with argumentation what hasn't happened yet?

That is certainly a huge problem. But, finding reasoning for such things is called philosophy.

I've astral projected so I have lived via my soul away from my physical body and I have fed from the eternal river of Peace while astral projecting so I am less skeptical than most people who struggle with their beliefs about what comes after the death of the physical human body.

You may be speaking truth and i am not challenging that. On the contrary, i second your opinion.

But, my point in this thread is about asking the scientifically inclined intellectuals to provide such a universal definition of death which can be applied to all living things and can be proved empirically too.

And, once they provide that, i will prove them wrong by providing scientifically proven evidence.

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Re: Death

Postby zinnat » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:19 am

A Shieldmaiden wrote:What kind of inherent nature does man possess?

Does he have a mortal nature or an immortal nature? According to the dictionary, the word “mortal” means “subject to death,” and the word “immortal” means “not subject to death.” Simply stated then man is mortal and subject to death, nobody has died and returned to tell us what it is like on the other side. The clearest and most concise inspired definition of death was written "then shall the dust return to the earth as it was and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (spirit meaning the breath).


I am not talking in metaphors. Here by death i mean plain and simple death.

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Re: Death

Postby zinnat » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:26 am

WendyDarling wrote:Man possesses two natures, two bodies...an external, human flesh body and an internal, spiritual soul body.


I also firmly believe of rather know that for sure because of my personal experiences. But, i can put that only as a theory or assumption because i cannot prove that empirically to others.

But yes, i can certainly put some such evidences forth which proves that the other side is not also right.

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Re: Death

Postby zinnat » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:38 am

Arcturus Descending wrote:zinnat,

How can we know that one is now dead permanently for sure?


Rationally speaking,..


http://doctorshub1.blogspot.com/2014/02 ... -dead.html



I read that link. Whatever they say is not wrong and applicable to almost 99.9 percent of cases of death. But, there are some exceptions also where some creatures becomes alive once again even after confirming all possible medical benchmarks.

And, if that is true, does that not mean that there must be some other core reason of death instead of all those which we generally assume?

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Re: Death

Postby zinnat » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:47 am

Alf wrote:With my answers above, I am in absolute agreement with all doctors, all physicians, all neurologists, all natural scientists.

And you are saying that they are "wrong"?


They are almost right but only almost, not absolutely.

Considering something as a fundamental truth, it must prevails in all conditions, not merely in majority. There must be no exceptions whatsoever, otherwise it should be considered as a thumb rule only, not a fundamental truth.

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Re: Death

Postby zinnat » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:51 am

Arcturus Descending wrote:zinnat,

I look forward to your explanation and proof.


Of course. Let all others state their opinion first.

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Re: Death

Postby zinnat » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:53 am

Serendipper wrote:
zinnat wrote:What is death?

Life's state of nonexistence.

How we should define death?

^^^

How can we know that one is now dead permanently for sure?

There is no such thing as permanently dead.

How can we be sure someone is dead???

Two hunters are out in the woods when one of them collapses.
He doesn't seem to be breathing and his eyes are glazed.
The other guy whips out his phone and calls the emergency services.
He gasps, "My friend is dead! What can I do?"
The operator says "Calm down. I can help. First, let's make sure he's dead."
There is a silence, then a gun shot is heard.
Back on the phone, the guy says "OK, now what?"


Sorry, i did not get your point.

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Re: Death

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:06 am

With my answers above, I am in absolute agreement with all doctors, all physicians, all neurologists, all natural scientists.

And you are saying that they are "wrong"?


Yes and no!

They are 'right' within the limits/boundaries of what they 'know'.

They ... and all people who subscribe to their opinions ... are wrong ... arrogant and small minded ... to extrapolate beyond the limits/boundaries of what is 'known'.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
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Re: Death

Postby James S Saint » Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:32 am

Death doesn't actually exist. But the real and much more relevant question is: What do you want to believe?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
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Re: Death

Postby zinnat » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:28 am

James S Saint wrote:Death doesn't actually exist. But the real and much more relevant question is: What do you want to believe?


Sorry James, i am unable to make anything from your answer. Would you elaborate?

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Re: Death

Postby James S Saint » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:44 am

James S Saint wrote:What do you want to believe?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Death

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:51 am

The Scriptures contain no such statement, 'the soul never dies', it is a pagan view and there is no reference in the Bible where the soul is referred to as being immortal or undying, in fact, over and over again it declares the opposite but people continue to believe only what they want to believe, ignoring the explicit verses which tell the truth about death yet multitudes still blindly follow empty teachings of an 'everlasting soul'.
The man that walks his own road, walks alone

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Re: Death

Postby zinnat » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:04 am

James S Saint wrote:What do you want to believe?


Okay. Now, i understand. But, that is not pertinent here.

In this thread, i want to prove the general perception and causes of the death are wrong. I cannot prove ( to others ) what causes death but still can put a big question mark its benchmark decided by medical sciences.

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Re: Death

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:20 pm

A Shieldmaiden wrote:The Scriptures contain no such statement, 'the soul never dies', it is a pagan view and there is no reference in the Bible where the soul is referred to as being immortal or undying, in fact, over and over again it declares the opposite but people continue to believe only what they want to believe, ignoring the explicit verses which tell the truth about death yet multitudes still blindly follow empty teachings of an 'everlasting soul'.

Where in the Bible does it say explicitly that the soul, not the human body, dies?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Death

Postby phyllo » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:58 pm

They are 'right' within the limits/boundaries of what they 'know'.

They ... and all people who subscribe to their opinions ... are wrong ... arrogant and small minded ... to extrapolate beyond the limits/boundaries of what is 'known'.
What are "the limits/boundaries of what they know"?
"Who loves not wine, woman and song, remains a fool his whole life long."

"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
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Re: Death

Postby Arminius » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:55 pm

Alf wrote:With my answers above, I am in absolute agreement with all doctors, all physicians, all neurologists, all natural scientists.

And you are saying that they are "wrong"?

We have to consider the two realms again: the physical one and the spiritual one.

You and all doctors, all physicians, all neurologists, all natural scientists are right when it comes to the physical realm.
You and all doctors, all physicians, all neurologists, all natural scientists are wrong when it comes to the spiritual realm.

Compare this with the following quote:

Arminius wrote:
mannequin01 wrote:If energy can neither be created nor destroyed, doesn't that law suggest that a god exists? that God is that energy and all comes from it as a original source and it continues to perpetually exist?

We do not really know where the energy comes from. So we do not know either where the universe comes from, why it exists, if it exists (note that „universe“ is a concept) ... and so on. The task of the physicists is not to answer questions like those. Science does not think (cp. Heidegger). Those questions must be answered or at least discussed by philosophers or theologians.

If there is only matter and energy and if there is convertability of both and if we too consist of both, then the energy may be the godlike one (thus also: the cause/reason for everything else), whereas the matter may be just the other one. If that is true, then God is always everywhere, thus also around you and in you.

Is that true? What do you think about that?

------------------------------------------------------------

There are at least two realms: a physical one and a spiritual one.
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Re: Death

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:20 pm

There are at least two realms: a physical one and a spiritual one.

Agreed.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Death

Postby Alf » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:40 pm

Arminius wrote:
Alf wrote:With my answers above, I am in absolute agreement with all doctors, all physicians, all neurologists, all natural scientists.

And you are saying that they are "wrong"?

We have to consider the two realms again: the physical one and the spiritual one.

You and all doctors, all physicians, all neurologists, all natural scientists are right when it comes to the physical realm.
You and all doctors, all physicians, all neurologists, all natural scientists are wrong when it comes to the spiritual realm.

Compare this with the following quote:

Arminius wrote:
mannequin01 wrote:If energy can neither be created nor destroyed, doesn't that law suggest that a god exists? that God is that energy and all comes from it as a original source and it continues to perpetually exist?

We do not really know where the energy comes from. So we do not know either where the universe comes from, why it exists, if it exists (note that „universe“ is a concept) ... and so on. The task of the physicists is not to answer questions like those. Science does not think (cp. Heidegger). Those questions must be answered or at least discussed by philosophers or theologians.

If there is only matter and energy and if there is convertability of both and if we too consist of both, then the energy may be the godlike one (thus also: the cause/reason for everything else), whereas the matter may be just the other one. If that is true, then God is always everywhere, thus also around you and in you.

Is that true? What do you think about that?

------------------------------------------------------------

There are at least two realms: a physical one and a spiritual one.

But if so, then one will probably never really know what "death" is. Or does death not exist at all?
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Re: Death

Postby Arminius » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:03 pm

Alf wrote:But if so, then one will probably never really know what "death" is. Or does death not exist at all?

Possibly.

Compare:

James S Saint wrote:Death doesn't actually exist. But the real and much more relevant question is: What do you want to believe?

What do you believe?
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Re: Death

Postby James S Saint » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:07 pm

Arminius wrote:What do you believe?

What do you Want me to believe? :o
8)
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25778
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Re: Death

Postby Alf » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:08 pm

I believe that death exists in what we call reality.
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Re: Death

Postby Arminius » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:12 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:What do you believe?

What do you Want me to believe? :o
8)

Sorry, I did not mean you. I meant Alf.
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Re: Death

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:42 am

WendyDarling wrote:
Where in the Bible does it say explicitly that the soul, not the human body, dies?


Herein lies your confusion.

What is a "soul"?

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7.

A soul is a living being and a soul is always a combination of two things, body plus breath. A soul cannot exist unless body and breath are combined. The Scripture teaches that we are souls.

What is the "spirit" that returns to God at death?

The body without the spirit (breath) is dead. James 2:26 KJV. The spirit of God (the breath which God gave him), is in my nostrils." Job 27:3.KJV

The spirit that returns to God at death is the breath of life. Nowhere in the Scriptures does the "spirit" have any life, wisdom, or feeling after a person dies. It is the "breath of life" and nothing more.


Do not confuse spirit with the Holy Spirit.
The man that walks his own road, walks alone

Old Norse Proverb
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Re: Death

Postby James S Saint » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:48 am

The soul is the fundamental concept and definition of what an individually is. It is necessarily eternal, as are all concepts.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25778
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Death

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:57 am

JSS wrote
The soul is the fundamental concept and definition of what an individually is. It is necessarily eternal, as are all concepts.


What is your source?
The man that walks his own road, walks alone

Old Norse Proverb
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