Progression

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Progression

Postby Dan~ » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:14 am

Progression can have many forms.
Mathematically, 1 + 1 = 2
Bigger is better.
The idea of progress is bound by morals and ethics.
My kind of moralist wants nothing other than progress.
Progress is also pragmatic, and relative.
We've moved from the stone age to the information age.
That was a progression too.
Having a farm of chickens grow larger is a form of progression.
I want to make progress.
Do you?
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Re: Progression

Postby Faust » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:27 am

I would like to make progress. But we always make progress, even if only toward death. Choosing goals is crucial to willful progress.
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Re: Progression

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:06 am

Seems a focus on progress lacks attention to the flip side of progress ... the price/cost of progress.

Undesirable costs such as a deteriorating ECO system can not be addressed simply due to the negative impact on economic/financial progress already achieved.

Population growth resulting from progress can not be accommodated due to the persistant disagreement on the distribution of the fruits progress.
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Re: Progression

Postby Dan~ » Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:11 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Seems a focus on progress lacks attention to the flip side of progress ... the price/cost of progress.

Undesirable costs such as a deteriorating ECO system can not be addressed simply due to the negative impact on economic/financial progress already achieved.

Population growth resulting from progress can not be accommodated due to the persistant disagreement on the distribution of the fruits progress.

There's nothing wrong with what you are saying, but i have little to add to it.

Virtually everything has a price or a cost.
Life tries to exploit energy sources and material sources.
Getting more than you give, or getting more energy than you would loose.
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Re: Progression

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:38 am

Historically the champions of progress ... Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Persians and so on ... have not fared so well.

Is there any reason to believe today's champions of progress ... the information/knowledge age ... will fare any better long term?
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Re: Progression

Postby Dan~ » Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:43 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Historically the champions of progress ... Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Persians and so on ... have not fared so well.
Is there any reason to believe today's champions of progress ... the information/knowledge age ... will fare any better long term?

That's a big question.
What do you think the answer is?
Are we better off now, or before, or later?
That must be a morality based question.
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Re: Progression

Postby phyllo » Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:53 am

Historically the champions of progress ... Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Persians and so on ... have not fared so well.
They fared well for hundreds of years. What more do you want?
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Re: Progression

Postby Meno_ » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:01 am

Progression is unavoidable it is what it is, but it may be regression in other ways, qualitatively. So in that way, progression is regressive, based on the idea that all this has happened countless of times. Its a perpetual in version.

The perception is always accommodation of axis of point of view.
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Re: Progression

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:20 am

let's play the game where you all beat around a proverbial bush of coming to the point of outright saying that sometimes its better to be backwards in coming forwards, that progress some times has to backtrack and it looks wrong, but is right. Let us have a 900 page thread of conversation.
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Re: Progression

Postby demoralized » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:41 am

I like this thread as a starting point for thinking. Perhaps I will take some time to think of things I'd like to progress.

Abstractly, I agree. I want to make progress.

Concretely - What do I want to progress and what does it cost?

What if I've progressed enough? What if enough chickens to feed the family is enough progress? What if enough chickens to supply the local grocer meat department is enough progress?

I think there may be some natural bounds to progress in some context.

I'd like to think after enough chickens, progress would be better made elsewhere.

Hmmm... I think at a personal scale starting small, making some progress, and reevaluating if it is desired to make more progress... sounds like a good thing. Having something else to progress sounds like a good thing too
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Re: Progression

Postby Dan~ » Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:34 am

There is such a thing as enough, i would agree.
However, if we could dry the food and store it somehow so that it doesn't decay,
it could come in handy during a disaster.
That might be why humans evolved a sense of greed, because their unforeseeable future may need excess, they may have a shortage.
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Re: Progression

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:24 am

Dan~ wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Seems a focus on progress lacks attention to the flip side of progress ... the price/cost of progress.

Undesirable costs such as a deteriorating ECO system can not be addressed simply due to the negative impact on economic/financial progress already achieved.

Population growth resulting from progress can not be accommodated due to the persistent disagreement on the distribution of the fruits progress.

There's nothing wrong with what you are saying, but i have little to add to it.

Virtually everything has a price or a cost.
Life tries to exploit energy sources and material sources.
Getting more than you give, or getting more energy than you would loose.


Dan ... you're a sincere and adventurous thinker. Your above comments are cornerstones of the 'puzzle of life' ... a triangle? or is the fourth yet to be announced?

Do all educated people agree the universe is in a constant state of flux?

Does this 'flux' necessarily seed progress ... though not in a linear fashion?
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Re: Progression

Postby Dan~ » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:28 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Dan ... you're a sincere and adventurous thinker. Your above comments are cornerstones of the 'puzzle of life' ... a triangle? or is the fourth yet to be announced?
Do all educated people agree the universe is in a constant state of flux?
Does this 'flux' necessarily seed progress ... though not in a linear fashion?

Reality is motion and stillness.
Flux is a form of motion.
But maybe from a higher dimension it looks different.
I think reality has a shared purpose, but i can't tell what it mainly is, or if it is progressive.
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Re: Progression

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:30 am

Dan~ wrote:There is such a thing as enough, i would agree.
However, if we could dry the food and store it somehow so that it doesn't decay,
it could come in handy during a disaster.
That might be why humans evolved a sense of greed, because their unforeseeable future may need excess, they may have a shortage.


Seems to me people's eating habits ... generally speaking ... point to your comments. We eat as though we're not sure when the next meal will come along ... much like most of the animal kingdom. Our mind 'knows' there is a secure food supply yet seems our primordial self over-rides the knowledge. We know when we have eaten enough ... yet we continue to eat until we don't know whether top burp or to fart.
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Re: Progression

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:43 am

Dan~ wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Dan ... you're a sincere and adventurous thinker. Your above comments are cornerstones of the 'puzzle of life' ... a triangle? or is the fourth yet to be announced?
Do all educated people agree the universe is in a constant state of flux?
Does this 'flux' necessarily seed progress ... though not in a linear fashion?

Reality is motion and stillness.
Flux is a form of motion.
But maybe from a higher dimension it looks different.
I think reality has a shared purpose, but i can't tell what it mainly is, or if it is progressive.


Dan ... can you give us an example of the "stillness" you 'see'?
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Progression

Postby Dan~ » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:00 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Dan ... can you give us an example of the "stillness" you 'see'?

Empty space. You can't see it in any way other than 0 in math.
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Re: Progression

Postby WendyDarling » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:50 pm

we continue to eat until we don't know whether to burp or to fart.

:lol:
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Re: Progression

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:10 pm

Dan~ wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Dan ... can you give us an example of the "stillness" you 'see'?

Empty space. You can't see it in any way other than 0 in math.


Can you prove that empty space exists? I can prove that whatever you think of as empty space is actually filled with things and that your perception of it being empty is just disregarding what else is there. Much like people believing silence exists, meanwhile they are hearing sounds that they just bypass in their own consciousness to perceive silence, meanwhile their brains still turn those perpetual motion devices they love and hate so much.
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Re: Progression

Postby Dan~ » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:57 pm

Can you prove that empty space exists?

That is like asking for physical evidence for an immaterial spirit being.
Empty space is not going to give off any energy.
Only energy can be measured.
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Re: Progression

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:08 pm

Dan~ wrote:
Can you prove that empty space exists?

That is like asking for physical evidence for an immaterial spirit being.
Empty space is not going to give off any energy.
Only energy can be measured.



And yet, through accumulative evidence; something able to be reinforced by professional detectives as a real way of solving cases; immaterial beings can be proved. I can prove that empty spaces do come into existence, but almost the very instant that they do, they do not remain empty.

And this IS all energy AND can be measured.
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