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Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:01 am
by Antithesis
Fixed Cross wrote:
Antithesis wrote:Nietzsche valued great men.
They could be great architects, engineers, artists, athletes, industrialists, philosophers, scientists or statesmen.
Great men are men who bring great value to themselves and others, primarily other great men like themselves, great men aren't emancipators of small men.
They would either be in favor of maintaining and rising within old hierarchies, or erecting new, better ones, not overturning all hierarchy.
For Nietzsche, ubermensch are not Buddhachrists, Robin Hoods, Spartacuses, anarchists, democrats, classical liberals or socialists.

No more important point in N than that men, up to and at least 100 years beyond him, had not been great enough.
Not even Napoleon had his respect, because of the cause he led.

The concept of Uebermensch, I don't know what's so difficult to understand about this. (lol yeah of course I do but it's mean) is the conceptualization of mankind as being by definition insufficient to please his tastes.

All this about already existing Uebermenschen is from other sources than Nietzsche.

Yea, you've presented it in black & white terms, but I, and N, prefer to think of things in degrees, where some individuals and civilizations at least came closer to embodying his ideals than others.

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:24 am
by Antithesis
Fixed Cross wrote:In this sense, America as being a mechanism for rank-creating, did, I think, have his respect.

Naturally he wasn't so silly as to believe men have intrinsic rights, he wasn't as silly as to disregard reality of how men interact, nor did he value men in particular as more ontologically significant than animals, so he did not value the base narrative of the USA, but he must have valued the massiveness of its power machinations.

And since he considered overcoming and self-overcoming as a crucial aspect of noble nature, he would definitely have had some pleasure in the path to power of the African gene pool. He certainly wasn't racist.

N was a white supremacist who's been appropriated by liberal-socialists because he's hip.
While Italian Fascism and German Nazism may've been too crude, collectivist and egalitarian for his tastes, as they were too crude for the likes of individualistic elitists like Julius Evola, still clearly they came closer to meeting his ideals than our Judeo-Christian, liberal-social democracies do.

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:52 am
by Antithesis
You can be a hip elitist, or a square equalist, the left doesn't have a monopoly on hipness.

N was the archetypal proto-Nipster.

N and Evola did for the right what Sartre and Camus did for the left.

Stirner and Novatore were hipper still, they didn't quite fit into either camp, left or right.

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:14 pm
by Fixed Cross
You're throwing out pretty random responses here man. Yes, clearly N is speaking to elites. Elites who don't hold moralities.

Ethics isn't the same as morality.

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:43 pm
by promethean75
.

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:38 pm
by Antithesis
Stirner's burns were pretty bad ass too.

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:47 pm
by Antithesis
He's got a fiendish, scoundrelly look to him.

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:48 pm
by promethean75
The original Dieter from Sprockets (SNL)

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:37 am
by Antithesis
The resemblance is uncanny.

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:39 am
by Antithesis
I wouldn't trust him with the plastic cutlery, looks like the worst elements of Antifa, PETA and Hitler's brown shirts combined.

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:59 pm
by Fixed Cross
Alright meine Herren, denn... who of yous is an ubermenschennnn?????

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:09 pm
by perpetualburn
Antithesis wrote:Nietzsche valued great men.
They could be great architects, engineers, artists, athletes, industrialists, philosophers, scientists or statesmen.
Great men are men who bring great value to themselves and others, primarily other great men like themselves, great men aren't emancipators of small men.
They would either be in favor of maintaining and rising within old hierarchies, or erecting new, better ones, not overturning all hierarchy.
For Nietzsche, ubermensch are not Buddhachrists, Robin Hoods, Spartacuses, anarchists, democrats, classical liberals or socialists.



The Superman is not a man as we know it. He's not a great or "higher" man. He's not a Napoleon or Caesar. He's not some amalgamation of characteristics picked and chosen from great men in history. He's not even one of Nietzsche's "creating ones." He doesn't necessarily go through the phases in Zarathustra (camel/lion/child).

Everything in TSZ is about creating ones literally sacrificing themselves (like Nietzsche nobly did) for the future of the Superman. There's something about this sacrificing of noble men that will bring about the Superman. Nietzsche(as far as I know) never says HOW the Superman will come into being.

Fixed Cross wrote:The only thing N said that can be tied to the Nazis and the Soviets was something like, 'there will be massive experiments, and mankind may perish of them. Oh well!'

If you look at the nazi leadership, they were all frail, unappetizing neurotic dwarflike men. Their idea of a master race was a gigantic herd. About as un-Nietzschean as possible. That can be said about the particular values. But the general, brutal audacity of the Nazi and Soviet experiments (both forms of Marxist atheism) was something by which N would not have been shocked in the least - something he saw coming, too.

The central idea of popular nazism however was not bravery but coziness, Heimlichkeit, belonging to a great group. The USSR was a little more manly, if you ask me. At least it sent us into space, which is a Nietzschean accomplishment.



Where the state ends, the Superman begins... So does that mean that even "good" ethnocentric nationalist governments are only good insofar they get in the way of unchecked globalism (which could potentially end the possibly for the Superman to come into being (Nietzsche's big fear with the Last Man)

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:40 pm
by Meno_
perpetualburn wrote:
Antithesis wrote:Nietzsche valued great men.
They could be great architects, engineers, artists, athletes, industrialists, philosophers, scientists or statesmen.
Great men are men who bring great value to themselves and others, primarily other great men like themselves, great men aren't emancipators of small men.
They would either be in favor of maintaining and rising within old hierarchies, or erecting new, better ones, not overturning all hierarchy.
For Nietzsche, ubermensch are not Buddhachrists, Robin Hoods, Spartacuses, anarchists, democrats, classical liberals or socialists.



The Superman is not a man as we know it. He's not a great or "higher" man. He's not a Napoleon or Caesar. He's not some amalgamation of characteristics picked and chosen from great men in history. He's not even one of Nietzsche's "creating ones." He doesn't necessarily go through the phases in Zarathustra (camel/lion/child).

Everything in TSZ is about creating ones literally sacrificing themselves (like Nietzsche nobly did) for the future of the Superman. There's something about this sacrificing of noble men that will bring about the Superman. Nietzsche(as far as I know) never says HOW the Superman will come into being.

Fixed Cross wrote:The only thing N said that can be tied to the Nazis and the Soviets was something like, 'there will be massive experiments, and mankind may perish of them. Oh well!'

If you look at the nazi leadership, they were all frail, unappetizing neurotic dwarflike men. Their idea of a master race was a gigantic herd. About as un-Nietzschean as possible. That can be said about the particular values. But the general, brutal audacity of the Nazi and Soviet experiments (both forms of Marxist atheism) was something by which N would not have been shocked in the least - something he saw coming, too.

The central idea of popular nazism however was not bravery but coziness, Heimlichkeit, belonging to a great group. The USSR was a little more manly, if you ask me. At least it sent us into space, which is a Nietzschean accomplishment.



Where the state ends, the Superman begins... So does that mean that even "good" ethnocentric nationalist governments are only good insofar they get in the way of unchecked globalism (which could potentially end the possibly for the Superman to come into being (Nietzsche's big fear with the Last Man)



May be, on the contrary, the more, the merrier. That is, of it really is contrary!

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:16 pm
by Anomaleigh
In order to become the ubermensch, you must vanquish the ubermensch.

There can be only one.


Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:35 pm
by promethean75
Omg. That dumbass just walked right into that sword.

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:53 pm
by Anomaleigh
promethean75 wrote:Omg. That dumbass just walked right into that sword.

IKR #-o

Anomaleigh wrote:In order to become the ubermensch, you must vanquish the ubermensch.

There can be only one.

Here's his likeness--

Image

Dang, he ugly.

That's what generations of noble incest will do to yuh.

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:15 am
by Meno_
Anomaleigh wrote:
promethean75 wrote:Omg. That dumbass just walked right into that sword.

IKR #-o

Anomaleigh wrote:In order to become the ubermensch, you must vanquish the ubermensch.

There can be only one.

Here's his likeness--

Image

Dang, he ugly.

That's what generations of noble incest will do to yuh.





Nathaniel Rothschild. Looks like.

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:51 am
by Anomaleigh
Meno_ wrote:
Anomaleigh wrote:
promethean75 wrote:Omg. That dumbass just walked right into that sword.

IKR #-o

Anomaleigh wrote:In order to become the ubermensch, you must vanquish the ubermensch.

There can be only one.

Here's his likeness--

Image

Dang, he ugly.

That's what generations of noble incest will do to yuh.





Nathaniel Rothschild. Looks like.

You're not just a pretty face.

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:36 am
by Anomaleigh
perpetualburn wrote:The Superman is not a man as we know it. He's not a great or "higher" man. He's not a Napoleon or Caesar. He's not some amalgamation of characteristics picked and chosen from great men in history. He's not even one of Nietzsche's "creating ones." He doesn't necessarily go through the phases in Zarathustra (camel/lion/child).

Everything in TSZ is about creating ones literally sacrificing themselves (like Nietzsche nobly did) for the future of the Superman. There's something about this sacrificing of noble men that will bring about the Superman. Nietzsche(as far as I know) never says HOW the Superman will come into being.

If N only defined the Ubermensch negatively, by what he's not, then he's nothing, just like N's philosophy.

Many theologians only defined God by what it's not, not by what it is.

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:42 am
by Meno_
Anomaleigh wrote:
perpetualburn wrote:The Superman is not a man as we know it. He's not a great or "higher" man. He's not a Napoleon or Caesar. He's not some amalgamation of characteristics picked and chosen from great men in history. He's not even one of Nietzsche's "creating ones." He doesn't necessarily go through the phases in Zarathustra (camel/lion/child).

Everything in TSZ is about creating ones literally sacrificing themselves (like Nietzsche nobly did) for the future of the Superman. There's something about this sacrificing of noble men that will bring about the Superman. Nietzsche(as far as I know) never says HOW the Superman will come into being.

If N only defined the Ubermensch negatively, by what he's not, then he's nothing, just like N's philosophy.

Many theologians only defined God by what it's not, not by what it is.




Because he is all allusion. to someone other then, himself, who is, also that who is alluded, to.

And that only appears as if nihilized, in fact he is merely alluded to, by a simulation.

Not merely a pretty face.....

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:14 am
by Anomaleigh
Meno_ wrote:
Anomaleigh wrote:
perpetualburn wrote:The Superman is not a man as we know it. He's not a great or "higher" man. He's not a Napoleon or Caesar. He's not some amalgamation of characteristics picked and chosen from great men in history. He's not even one of Nietzsche's "creating ones." He doesn't necessarily go through the phases in Zarathustra (camel/lion/child).

Everything in TSZ is about creating ones literally sacrificing themselves (like Nietzsche nobly did) for the future of the Superman. There's something about this sacrificing of noble men that will bring about the Superman. Nietzsche(as far as I know) never says HOW the Superman will come into being.

If N only defined the Ubermensch negatively, by what he's not, then he's nothing, just like N's philosophy.

Many theologians only defined God by what it's not, not by what it is.




Because he is all allusion. to someone other then, himself, who is, also that who is alluded, to.

And that only appears as if nihilized, in fact he is merely alluded to, by a simulation.

Not merely a pretty face.....

But the allusion was a ruse, a mere gesture, to conjure that which can't be manifested without the absolution of form.

And it is from this form he can begin to both allocate without appropriating, and delegate without delineating.

Such is his amelioration, not a stalwart reification of obsequiousness.

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:38 pm
by Meno_
He's not a great or "higher" man. He's not a Napoleon or Caesar. He's not some amalgamation of characteristics picked and chosen from great men in history. He's not even one of Nietzsche's "creating ones." He doesn't necessarily go through the phases in Zarathustra (camel/lion/child).

--------
Anomaleigh said:

Everything in TSZ is about creating ones literally sacrificing themselves (like Nietzsche nobly did) for the future of the Superman. There's something about this sacrificing of noble men that will bring about the Superman. Nietzsche(as far as I know) never says HOW the Superman will come into being.[/quote]
If N only defined the Ubermensch negatively, by what he's not, then he's nothing, just like N's philosophy.

Many theologians only defined God by what it's not, not by what it is.[/quote]

-----
--------
Meno said:

Because he is all allusion. to someone other then, himself, who is, also that who is alluded, to.

And that only appears as if nihilized, in fact he is merely alluded to, by a simulation.

-------
-----
Anomaleigh said:


Not merely a pretty face.....[/quote]
But the allusion was a ruse, a mere gesture, to conjure that which can't be manifested without the absolution of form.




And it is from this form he can begin to both allocate without appropriating, and delegate without delineating.


Anomaleigh said:

Such is his amelioration, not a stalwart reification of obsequiousness.[/quote]

--------- ---------


Meno said:


Only if that ameliaration were to drift within a reasonable epoche of regress, but such reification is usually not noticed as between the emtyness of rhetoric, and the fullness of formal conjured gestures toward -a delayed objective.

This type of political tension caused by driving up expectation( manipulation of interest , by the use of Madison avenue hype, relegated objects of planned economic political reality into the hype of 'objectives.
As such, the process allays became within parenthetical simulated reinforcements.

The final result? A cliche overused, and pinned with obvious and deductible falsehoods, to sustain some minimum substance within the parenthesis.

Political mandate hidden as hope will sustain us:

That is why in the parallel universe of the Soviet promise of a never fulfilled 5 year plan, only naive realism could be tolerated, religion really was only the opium with which to enslave people. The state was better at it.

The epoche failed because of the sense of brutality with which the state needed to retain such mismanaged idolatry.

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:34 pm
by promethean75
Such is his amelioration, not a stalwart reification of obsequiousness.


Woah woah woah. Why does this reification of obsequiousness have to be stalwart? why?

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:38 pm
by Meno_
promethean75 wrote:
Such is his amelioration, not a stalwart reification of obsequiousness.


Woah woah woah. Why does this reification of obsequiousness have to be stalwart? why?




Even if the question is not specifically addressed, I would hazard he doesn't have to, but self indulgence , like an internal pull can overcome an opposite force toward appeasment, that has not been properly mandated.

Re: How to become Ubermensch?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:12 pm
by Anomaleigh
Meno...



...you win, I submit.