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the devil in the details

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 4:18 pm
by Jakob
I mean to think about the relationship between depression, philosophy, the past and the present, and between myself and my contemporary fellow human beings and the old thinkers who suffered but did not yet know the extent of the worlds ugliness.

Here is a picture I'd like us all to meditate on for a second.

https://probaway.files.wordpress.com/20 ... uer_33.jpg

Next, let's take a glance at what was said to begin with, what I commented and what WW_III_Responded in response to that.
(I leave in typos that I like these days)

It all started in a grim, charcoal landscape.

---

Nietzsche wrote:Why the philosopher rarely turns out well. His requirements include qualities that usually destroy a man.
1. a tremendous multiplicity of qualities; he must be a brief abstract of a man, of all man's higher and lower desires;: danger from antitheses, also from disgust at himself;

2. he must be inquisitive in the most various directions: danger of going to pieces;

3. he must be just and fair in the highest sense, but profound in love, hate (and injustice), too;

4. he must be not only a spectator, but also a legislator: judge and be judged (to the extent that he is a brief extract of the world);

5. extremely multifarious, yet firm and hard. supple. [WtP 976]


I wrote:
Now how the philosopher might come to deal with these respective challenges put before him by red thread that he is, precariously strung between his own historic nature an the destiny of mankind.


1. a tremendous multiplicity of qualities; he must be a brief abstract of a man, of all man's higher and lower desires;

Against a tremendous multiplicity must stand a powerful simplicity, a will to break branches off as carelessly as one lets them grow, the tendency to retreat into the stem, become indifferent to what is around and grow only upward. If he is not able to cut himself off from his experiments despite these works containing his own blood, he will perish.

danger from antitheses,

Antithesis can not be dealt with by withdrawal into either of the two theses; it must instead be "molten together" by fire, hammer and anvil in the forge known as the artists mind, which even for this purpose alone the philosopher must possess; antitheses last the longest but can be endured the least; no artist of influence is without them, and the philosopher survives them in the same way as the artist, except that his material is harder and requires far greater passion to melt and forge. In other words, alchemy is required; and Nietzsche's own work is inscrutably magnificent because it is such an alchemy of contradictions, where mans greatest contradictions are brought together in new qualities.

also from disgust at himself;

Here, a much simpler remedy is called for, or rather several ones; first; exercise and aesthetic discipline release the grip of disgust, and then, a cool glance into the world puts ones own ideal in a new light, and one can accept that one is indeed only a struggling human, but that this is the very point; the beauty of the overcoming would not exist if the state was already perfect. From this sobering insight, it stands to reason, the myths of innocence and sin are derived - but these myths do not suffice to do justice to the imperfection; only very little poetry does in fact reach into the heart of this matter; Milton, in his descriptions of the bad guys, and William Blake to my mind, but also parts of the Edda's, those rough and unshapely myths of values and fortitudes too deep to express indirectly, make of imperfection a kind of disciplinary nectar - which in terms of evolution, it is. Imperfection is also what allows compatibility. A philosopher may seek out artists that reflect his own weaknesses, make music with which he can grow disgusted, transfigure, improve. He can never rest in his state - he must accept the ill quality as a doctor, not merely as a patient. In as far as the philosopher is prone to disgust with himself, he must be a 'witch doctor', someone who knows how to use the art of transfiguration purposefully. If he is not such a shaman, he will be known merely as a literator, an ironist, a writer, not a thinker. Thoughts must be pure, and self-disgust leads to pure thoughts of a world where one is not - thoughts about a clean death, a warriors death, a death wherein aesthetic justification is found that was lacking in life. Creative spirits commit suicide when that is their last shot at setting a standard.


2. he must be inquisitive in the most various directions: danger of going to pieces;

Same as contradictions; the directions of the wind must ultimately lead back to the center. Here again; luck, fortune, fate. But these are always the great stimulants; this is why one sails into an open sea; a philosopher is constantly testing fate.

Going to pieces; also Walhalla, the warriors death rewarded by the daily fight with Odin, being torn apart and being put back together, followed by a drunken banquet, until the end of the days of the gods. But the philosopher must fulfill the Odinic task of pulling himself together from what to a normal mind would be sure insanity.


3. he must be just and fair in the highest sense, but profound in love, hate (and injustice), too;

He must be profound in love and hate because according tot he highest justice it is good that he is a man, and good men are profound in love and hate - his subtle and far reaching conscious values demand that his instinctive values be taken seriously; unlike the scientist, he understands that he does not stand outside of the equation, that his logic will only be consequential if he is a not only god but also beast.


4. he must be not only a spectator, but also a legislator: judge and be judged (to the extent that he is a brief extract of the world);

The same; he must partake in the world in order to be consequential. Primarily because this gives his thoughts the proper consequences for himself; he has to take himself seriously, he has to dare to correct mistakes.


5. extremely multifarious, yet firm and hard. supple.

This entry contains its own resolve; multifarious, yet firm, thus supple.

Overall the philosopher must be a dancer who knows how to lead his own mind, and sometimes to follow an inscrutable higher drive that appears in a state of exceptionally good or bad health; the god, Dionysus, the raging one who makes paths where no creature has gone, or Apollon the marksman who crosses distances the human eye can not see. A philosopher does not come far without now and then evoking his gods, and believing in them, innocently in the full awareness of the folly of it - the philosopher understands that man is healthier with than without his illusions; and that to be a philosopher, he also needs to be a man, from time to time; what for a priest is a matter of the gravest ceremony and obedience, for the philosopher is a moment of silly child's play; both talk to their god; the priest asks for a trade of favors; sacrifice for fortune - the philosopher invites the god to come play with him - which is a way of inviting himself to play with the world. Nietzsche's playtime with gods is extensive, so is Plato's - it is to a degree a measure of the philosophers self-confidence, of his willingness to be attacked, his desire even to be attacked - the suppleness of the natural fighter.


WW_III wrote:Na, this doesn't destroy a man. Perhaps it destroyed Nietzsche, but depression is healthy. Could you imagine a person who never experienced it? Something must be wrong with them. Permanent depression however, in which it ends without overcoming it, well, something must be wrong with them. Balance of course. Wondering when the next time I experience depression. Will I? Will it be extreme sorrow instead? Devastating events throughout life are inevitable; the longer we go without one, perhaps the less prepared we will be. Philosophy prepares us for these events, we are aware of things, we ponder them. We ponder hypotheticals in our mind, keeping our minds "tuned up" for whatever may come, for whatever may not come.

Nietzsche's torment, his existential disgust, has been endured by others - it is only that not very many were willing and able to write so well about their honest findings. I believe it's possible that it was Nietzsche's honesty and outspokenness that shattered him - in the end he had no world to call his ground. His world waited for different kinds of humans on the other side of an immense abyss.
We are of this world. The grim depression of Schopenhauer and the bipolar despair and ecstasy of Nietzsche are archetypes in the modern mind.

It is true, man has been initiated into a state of permanent turbulence - we can no longer escape into animality, the codex of paranoid reason is all engulfing. Whoever has not suffered from this, is indeed either a fool or a brute - Nietzsche was neither, and he went to such lengths to purge himself of the nagging knowledge of doom, that he was willing to become doom; what does this remind of? "I am no man, I a dynamite"... He threw himself to the ground and exploded; his philosophy was in a sense a self-righteous suicide; it was all the time completely explicit that he did not as a man of flesh and blood live up to his own standards, his tastes. He did not overcome Schopenhauer as a man -- but his writings are are superior. He understood his suffering to be a function of his power; he wrote to salvation (Boo III of Zarathustra frightens me because of this) and he understood the condition that is not depression to be one of existential truth; a raw sense of happiness emerged; where man had always identified savagery with depravity, it now became in a way that is if anything rooted in the French enlightenment, a form of power that spawns culture itself; the non-conceptual and ambiguous 'state of nature' that Rousseau and Locke an everyone was on about had now become a scientific inevitability at any given instance.

If this is not a symptom of severe depression, then I am a waterelephant upside down in the sky with rubies and royal babies and all that -- no, WW_III needs to be addressed if we are to understand the present relationship of philosophy and mass-psychology; i.e. the state of mind of mankind. The kind of state of man, the state and kind of man, the kind man of the state...


:angry-screaming:

Re: the devil in the details

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 4:58 pm
by Meno_
This is a good description of modernity, but anxious(depressed) people are coming around to an antidote, besides drugging themselves into oblivion, and that is opening themselves up, creating personal spaces of absolute insulated states-periodically. and relieve themselves of auto erotic guilt around faithless vanity.. The analogy of electric insulation is very fitting, and we have come a long way to disparage ourselves of the trap of falling into despair by mixing earth shaking events with trifles.

Those kinds of confusions come on at the beginning of new ventures of transvaluations , and indeed , the conflation between a demon and a divinity create an absolute bottomless pit , not part human and animal , not either or, not nor yea, but a totally endless pit of the grand unplanned for design.

Magical thinking is really a meta being, below but above everything, and the middle isn't in the eye of the storm , of two triangular apexes joined together, Michelangelo said it better wordlessly, with man barely touching god at the fingertips.

It is life that is paradoxical , not really real.

That is Why need not fear . the all into the one.
And conversely.

If I hadn't known you for a while you would charge me with irrelevance and more.