What is Enlightenment? Enlightenment Explained.

Well let’s look at the Buddha.

He was a fat man who wore women’s makeup who rejoiced at his own demise.

*Fat man - Binge eating - Hedonistic obsession - Battling Depression

*Abandons his own family for a “quest” - Anhedonia - Derives little pleasure from normal family things - Battling Depression

*Rich man with the kingdom - Feels unsatisfied with treasures - Battling Depression

*Wears womans makeup - Transgender or two-spirit unhappy with his/her body - Battling Depression

*Celebrates and says that his parts will never reunite, and makes a religion dedicated to making sure people cease to exist. - Battling Depression

*Says life is suffering. - Battling Depression

What is enlightenment, exactly?

Enlightenment, real enlightenment has been watered-down by newage hippies. Enlightenment is not “positive energy”. Enlightenment is not
good vibrations". Enlightenment is not “connection to the cosmic force of good energy.” Enlightenment is not “social fulfilment and social satisfaction.”

“Enlightenment is, quite simply, manic depression.”

-Jed McKenna.

Again, Trix, enlightenement is not a ‘what’. It is not even the nihilization of that, and it definitely not an it. It is not beyond words, nor is it not. That’s it, got it?

Buddha and Jed already told you what it is.

It’s manic depression.

I shall not repeat myself again.

ok, but thats only one manifestation, and on a very superficial level. it is a beginning of a search. the affect goes under th radar as it were, back down under, by a hidden will of discovery, and to seek it again and again seems outwardly as OCD, transcending depression, or at least trying to.

There’s nothing to “search” for. Its simply a case of two manically depressed men, disgusted of their own existence, intended to detach from their own ego and earthly experience in order to become nothing and ensure their “nirvana” and lack of rebirth (total death) upon death.

well, like a waiting game like waiting for godot, wait wait wait for enlightenment, and the longer the wait, the more cynical the waiting game lasts. its like the balck whole idea. It gets closer and closer but the center can never be reached. time space stretches .
to the point of absolute thinness. The same with the big bang, where time does not exist. It becomes an eternity. Eternity of waiting. Therefore itnever happens. Enlightenment never happens, therefore
it is only an idea, but an idea upon which all waiting is worth the effort.
There is no beginning, BUT IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD. Sorry not to have replied to You while on board, but went to church.

Dont know which brand of Enlightenment you refer.

Be more specific

are you referring to

  • Brand X

  • Buddha Brand

  • Kevin Solway’s Enlightment ™

  • Jed McKenna’s existential disgust

or c none of the above?

Enlightenment is man’s emergence from his self-incurred immaturity.
Immaturity is the inability to use one’s own understanding without the
guidance of another. This immaturity is self-incurred if its cause is not lack of
understanding, but lack of resolution and courage to use it without the
guidance of another. The motto of enlightenment is therefore: Sapere aude!
Have courage to use your own understanding!
Laziness and cowardice are the reasons why such a large proportion of men,
even when nature has long emancipated them from alien guidance
(naturaliter maiorennes), nevertheless gladly remain immature for life. For
the same reasons, it is all too easy for others to set themselves up as their
guardians. It is so convenient to be immature! If I have a book to have
understanding in place of me, a spiritual adviser to have a conscience for me,
a doctor to judge my diet for me, and so on, I need not make any efforts at all.
I need not think, so long as I can pay; others will soon enough take the
tiresome job over for me. The guardians who have kindly taken upon
themselves the work of supervision will soon see to it that by far the largest
part of mankind (including the entire fair sex) should consider the step
forward to maturity not only as difficult but also as highly dangerous. Having
first infatuated their domesticated animals, and carefully prevented the docile
creatures from daring to take a single step without the leading-strings to
which they are tied, they next show them the danger which threatens them if
they try to walk unaided. Now this danger is not in fact so very great, for they
would certainly learn to walk eventually after a few falls. But an example of
this kind is intimidating, and usually frightens them off from further attempts.
Thus it is difficult for each separate individual to work his way out of the
immaturity which has become almost second nature to him. He has even
grown fond of it and is really incapable for the time being of using his own
understanding, because he was never allowed to make the attempt. Dogmas
and formulas, those mechanical instruments for rational use (or rather misuse)
of his natural endowments, are the ball and chain of his permanent
immaturity. And if anyone did throw them off, he would still be uncertain
about jumping over even the narrowest of trenches, for he would be
unaccustomed to free movement of this kind. Thus only a few, by cultivating
their own minds, have succeeded in freeing themselves from immaturity and
in continuing boldly on their way.
There is more chance of an entire public enlightening itself. This is indeed
almost inevitable, if only the public concerned is left in freedom. For there
will always be a few who think for themselves, even among those appointed
as guardians of the common mass. Such guardians, once they have
themselves thrown off the yoke of immaturity, will disseminate the spirit of
rational respect for personal value and for the duty of all men to think for
themselves. The remarkable thing about this is that if the public, which was
previously put under this yoke by the guardians, is suitably stirred up by some
of the latter who are incapable of enlightenment, it may subsequently compel
the guardians themselves to remain under the yoke. For it is very harmful to
propagate prejudices, because they finally avenge themselves on the very
people who first encouraged them (or whose predecessors did so). Thus a
public can only achieve enlightenment slowly. A revolution may well put an
end to autocratic despotism and to rapacious or power-seeking oppression,
but it will never produce a true reform in ways of thinking. Instead, new
prejudices, like the ones they replaced, will serve as a leash to control the
great unthinking mass.
For enlightenment of this kind, all that is needed is freedom. And the freedom
in question is the most innocuous form of all–freedom to make public use of
one’s reason in all matters. But I hear on all sides the cry: Don’t argue! The
officer says: Don’t argue, get on parade! The tax-official: Don’t argue, pay!
The clergyman: Don’t argue, believe! (Only one ruler in the world says:
Argue as much as you like and about whatever you like, but obey!). All this
means restrictions on freedom everywhere. But which sort of restriction
prevents enlightenment, and which, instead of hindering it, can actually
promote it? I reply: The public use of man’s reason must always be free, and
it alone can bring about enlightenment among men; the private use of reason
may quite often be very narrowly restricted, however, without undue
hindrance to the progress of enlightenment. But by the public use of one’s
own reason I mean that use which anyone may make of it as a man of
learning addressing the entire reading public. What I term the private use of
reason is that which a person may make of it in a particular civil post or office
with which he is entrusted.
Now in some affairs which affect the interests of the commonwealth, we
require a certain mechanism whereby some members of the commonwealth
must behave purely passively, so that they may, by an artificial common
agreement, be employed by the government for public ends (or at least
deterred from vitiating them). It is, of course, impermissible to argue in such
Enlightenment 2
cases; obedience is imperative. But in so far as this or that individual who acts
as part of the machine also considers himself as a member of a complete
commonwealth or even of cosmopolitan society, and thence as a man of
learning who may through his writings address a public in the truest sense of
the word, he may 'indeed argue without harming the affairs in which he is
employed for some of the time in a passive capacity. Thus it would be very
harmful if an officer receiving an order from his superiors were to quibble
openly, while on duty, about the appropriateness or usefulness of the order in
question. He must simply obey. But he cannot reasonably be banned from
making observations as a man of learning on the errors in the military service,
and from submitting these to his public for judgment. The citizen cannot
refuse to pay the taxes imposed upon him; presumptuous criticisms of such
taxes, where someone is called upon to pay them, may be punished as an
outrage which could lead to general insubordination. Nonetheless, the same
citizen does not contravene his civil obligations if, as a learned individual, he
publicly voices his thoughts on the impropriety or even injustice of such
fiscal measures. In the same way, a clergyman is bound to instruct his pupils
and his congregation in accordance with the doctrines of the church he serves,
for he was employed by it on that condition. But as a scholar, he is
completely free as well as obliged to impart to the public all his carefully
considered, well-intentioned thoughts on the mistaken aspects of those
doctrines, and to offer suggestions for a better arrangement of religious and
ecclesiastical affairs. And there is nothing in this which need trouble the
conscience. For what he teaches in pursuit of his duties as an active servant of
the church is presented by him as something which he is not empowered to
teach at his own discretion, but which he is employed to expound in a
prescribed manner and in someone else’s name. He will say: Our church
teaches this or that, and these are the arguments it uses. He then extracts as
much practical value as possible for his congregation from precepts to which
he would not himself subscribe with full conviction, but which he can
nevertheless undertake to expound, since it is not in fact wholly impossible
that they may contain truth. At all events, nothing opposed to the essence of
religion is present in such doctrines. For if the clergyman thought he could
find anything of this sort in them, he would not be able to carry out his
official duties in good conscience, and would have to resign. Thus the use
which someone employed as a teacher makes of his reason in the presence of
his congregation is purely private, since a congregation, however large it is, is
never any more than a domestic gathering. In view of this, he is not and
cannot be free as a priest, since he is acting on a commission imposed from
outside. Conversely, as a scholar addressing the real public (i.e. the world at
large) through his writings, the clergyman making public use of his reason
enjoys unlimited freedom to use his own reason and to speak in his own
person. For to maintain that the guardians of the people in spiritual matters
should themselves be immature, is an absurdity which amounts to making
absurdities permanent.
But should not a society of clergymen, for example an ecclesiastical synod or
a venerable presbytery (as the Dutch call it), be entitled to commit itself by
oath to a certain unalterable set of doctrines, in order to secure for all time a
constant guardianship over each of its members, and through them over the
people? I reply that this is quite impossible. A contract of this kind, concluded
with a view to preventing all further enlightenment of mankind for ever, is
absolutely null and void, even if it is ratified by the supreme power, by
Imperial Diets and the most solemn peace treaties. One age cannot enter into
an alliance on oath to put the next age in a position where it would be
impossible for it to extend and correct its knowledge, particularly on such
important matters, or to make any progress whatsoever in enlightenment. This
would be a crime against human nature, whose original destiny lies precisely
in such progress. Later generations are thus perfectly entitled to dismiss these
agreements as unauthorized and criminal. To test whether any particular
measure can be agreed upon as a law for a people, we need only ask whether
a people could well impose such a law upon itself. This might well be
possible for a specified short period as a means of introducing a certain order,
pending, as it were, a better solution. This would also mean that each citizen,
particularly the clergyman, would be given a free hand as a scholar to
comment publicly, i.e. in his writings, on the inadequacies of current
institutions. Meanwhile, the newly established order would continue to exist,
until public insight into the nature of such matters had progressed and proved
itself to the point where, by general consent (if not unanimously), a proposal
could be submitted to the crown. This would seek to protect the congregations
who had, for instance, agreed to alter their religious establishment in
accordance with their own notions of what higher insight is, but it would not
try to obstruct those who wanted to let things remain as before. But it is
absolutely impermissible to agree, even for a single lifetime, to a permanent
religious constitution which no-one might publicly question. For this would
virtually nullify a phase in man’s upward progress, thus making it fruitless
and even detrimental to subsequent generations. A man may for his own
person, and even then only for a limited period, postpone enlightening
himself in matters he ought to know about. But to renounce such
enlightenment completely, whether for his own person or even more so for
later generations, means violating and trampling underfoot the sacred rights
of mankind. But something which a people may not even impose upon itself
Enlightenment 3
can still less be imposed upon it by a monarch; for his legislative authority
depends precisely upon his uniting the collective will of the people in his
own. So long as he sees to it that all true or imagined improvements are
compatible with the civil order, he can otherwise leave his subjects to do
whatever they find necessary for their salvation, which is none of his
business. But it is his business to stop anyone forcibly hindering others from
working as best they can to define and promote their salvation. It indeed
detracts from his majesty if he interferes in these affairs by subjecting the
writings in which his subjects attempt to clarify their religious ideas to
governmental supervision. This applies if he does so acting upon his own
exalted opinions–in which case he exposes himself to the reproach: Caesar
non est supra Grammaticos, but much more so if he demeans his high
authority so far as to support the spiritual despotism of a few tyrants within
his state against the rest of his subjects.
If it is now asked whether we at present live in an enlightened age, the answer
is: No, but we do live in an age of enlightenment. As things are at present, we
still have a long way to go before men as a whole can be in a position (or can
ever be put into a position) of using their own understanding confidently and
well in religious matters, without outside guidance. But we do have distinct
indications that the way is now being cleared for them to work freely in this
direction, and that the obstacles to universal enlightenment, to man’s
emergence from his self-incurred immaturity, are gradually becoming fewer.
In this respect our age is the age of enlightenment, the century of Frederick.
A prince who does not regard it as beneath him to say that he considers it his
duty, in religious matters, not to prescribe anything to his people, but to allow
them complete freedom, a prince who thus even declines to accept the
presumptuous title of tolerant, is himself enlightened. He deserves to be
praised by a grateful present and posterity as the man who first liberated
mankind from immaturity (as far as government is concerned), and who left
all men free to use their own reason in all matters of conscience. Under his
rule, ecclesiastical dignitaries, notwithstanding their official duties, may in
their capacity as scholars freely and publicly submit to the judgment of the
world their verdicts and opinions, even if these deviate here and there from
orthodox doctrine. This applies even more to all others who are not restricted
by any official duties. This spirit of freedom is also spreading abroad, even
where it has to struggle with outward obstacles imposed by governments
which misunderstand their own function. For such governments an now
witness a shining example of how freedom may exist without in the least
jeopardizing public concord and the unity of the commonwealth. Men will of
their own accord gradually work their way out of barbarism so long as
artificial measures are not deliberately adopted to keep them in it.
I have portrayed matters of religion as the focal point of enlightenment, i.e. of
man’s emergence from his self-incurred immaturity. This is firstly because
our rulers have no interest in assuming the role of guardians over their
subjects so far as the arts and sciences are concerned, and secondly, because
religious immaturity is the most pernicious and dishonorable variety of all.
But the attitude of mind of a head of state who favors freedom in the arts and
sciences extends even further, for he realizes that there is no danger even to
his legislation if he allows his subjects to make public use of their own reason
and to put before the public their thoughts on better ways of drawing up laws,
even if this entails forthright criticism of the current legislation. We have
before us a brilliant example of this kind, in which no monarch has yet
surpassed the one to whom we now pay tribute.
But only a ruler who is himself enlightened and has no fear of phantoms, yet
who likewise has at hand a well-disciplined and numerous army to guarantee
public security, may say what no republic would dare to say: Argue as much
as you like and about whatever you like, but obey! This reveals to us a
strange and unexpected pattern in human affairs (such as we shall always find
if we consider them in the widest sense, in which nearly everything is
paradoxical). A high degree of civil freedom seems advantageous to a
people’s intellectual freedom, yet it also sets up insuperable barriers to it.
Conversely, a lesser degree of civil freedom gives intellectual freedom
enough room to expand to its fullest extent. Thus once the germ on which
nature has lavished most care–man’s inclination and vocation to think freely–
has developed within this hard shell, it gradually reacts upon the mentality of
the people, who thus gradually become increasingly able to act freely
Eventually, it even influences the principles of governments, which find that
they can themselves profit by treating man, who is more than a machine, in a
manner appropriate to his dignity.

I Kant

Trixie

You may be completely right, however that doesn’t mean there isn’t something else going on. Just keep describing the universe and include QM/R, then make a description of reality which you think does describe it. Whatever that given description is, there will always be the class of things it doesn’t include [infinity doesn’t have the finite etc].

…ergo; Logically reality must be indescribable.

It must also include everything we know +

So there is something of what we are in it, and yet it has no form. Same for everything.

Nirvana if it is reality, then it is the place described above. If not then its merely a state of mind. In my religion divinity is an actual place [this/reality], and is at the base of all things. I’ve just reinterpreted that a tad.

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Nothing women do is fair. Nothing about them is fair.

The enlightenment he refers to seems to be along the lines of public unconsciousness and retardation.

The enlightenment I refer to is of the Buddha ilk, that life is really suffering, that life is not noble, merely clings on through natural selection, and that one would benefit from non-existence.

What orbie was referring I believe was more along the lines of nirvana. He was saying something about how nirvana cannot really be obtained 100 percent, just approaches 99.999 percent. Like, I believe he was saying total nonexistence cannot be attained, just approached or something like that.

Enlightenment, is really simple.

Simply realize 4 things.

  • Everything is caused, and the universe is causal.
  • Our ego is transient, and not really who we are.
  • Most of life is suffering, and that suffering is simply mental acuity, pleasure is mindlessness.
  • Natural selection is not noble, life is not noble or special, it simply clings to itself by process of mathematics.

Viola, you are enlightened.

what i meant to convey was the sense in which even in pre-Buddhic timed there were ideas whch resembled many of the features of Buddhism. This sense of liberation has occupied people’s mind for a very long time, and it arose in India for a large part because of the very opressive and endless bondage of an insufferable caste system. So it probably had a very early , literal cause.

It’s probably more a notion of an all encompassing universal ontology that i was seeking, whether it be Christian, Buddhist , or whatever. As a personal way of unifyng it with some elementary accepted notions of science. Just speculation, that is all.

That the Nirvana/Heaven/Enlightenment are not equivocal but related concepts, manifets in my opinion a commonality of preoccupation with the relationship between states of mind and cosmological principles, even if hidden, implied. And so was the idea that states such as resulting or caused by actions have causal effects on those states. That is all i was trying to convey.

The thing that boggles my mind about Nirvana is how vague it is.

Noone can tell you what exactly Nirvana is.

For starters, how can a non-entity detach from the mind?

It would have to wait on the mind to detach from it.

It would rely on noumenon to perform actions.

A non-entity is passive and incapable of action.

Essentially, it would depend on the mind to detach itself from itself.

Jed McKenna wrote a book about Nirvana.

Jed McKenna sounds like a raving lunatic who worships misery and darkness.

Buddha too, was a raving lunatic when he shouted celebrations when he proclaimed that his mind, would never again build itself again (referring to total death.)

What Nirvana exactly is I cannot say, but it usually surrounds itself with raving lunatics and hermits who don’t have any friends or relationships.

Hell, the lead singer of a band called Nirvana committed suicide.

Why is Nirvana on such a big pedastal?

The world has gone mad, question is, how mad.

Trixie

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