Hypnosis

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Hypnosis

Postby BluTGI » Mon Jul 21, 2003 7:51 pm

Is it possible to hypnotize someone with out them knowing?

I do not think so.

And what about those tapes of music where you listen to subliminals

I have yet to find a working example of one that has the effect with out notice. Is it just theory for future media?
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Postby Guest » Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:25 pm

Having never been hypnotized before I'm not sure if I'd know what to expect or even if I was being hypnotized. You always see people running around like chickens and upon "waking up" having no idea what they'd been doing prior to a ring of the bell. So, I'm sure it's possible to induce the hypnotic state without another person being entirely aware of it. Also, if a person is more right-brained it can play a role in the process, making it easier to succumb them to your powers. Now, why you'd want to hypnotize someone without them knowing is another story. Perhaps you could be hypnotized to find out :lol:
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Postby Yashaskaram » Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:00 pm

I do believe it may be possible to hypnotize someone without them being fully aware of what is occuring, but only if they are already receptive to the idea of being hypnotized, in general. I do not believe it is possible to hypnotize anyone who does not want to be.
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Postby kesh » Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:36 pm

Interesting, (how would you go about hypnotising) Making sure the person is safe, comfortable and tired after a work out(you need to stetch the muscle to
help the oxygen flow and help them relax). Then its all about repeating calm floaty words in a rythmetic manner, making sure there is no-one that can disturb the quite.
Ive tryed it before on a mate, but it hardly worked as she was consciously aware i had hypnotised her (and she new the dangers 8) ) but it was like she was asleep (or in stage of sleep) and able to understand me and me her; but she eventually felt uncomfortable and i had to snap her out of it.

So no i dont think you could, unless that person you wonted to hynotise was relaxed, stretched and wasnt bothered with you messing about, as the person been hypnotised must consent in some way.
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Postby Smooth » Sun Jul 27, 2003 3:24 am

Ha ha

To make extra money I perform Magic/Mentalism and at times I perform stage hypnosis. From what I understand there is no way you can hypnotize someone without them knowing what is going on. And about subliminal tapes, well.... your sub-concious is a wonderful place, and different people are more receptive than others. But what one has to understand is that it all depends whether or not the subject wants to accept the messages going into the subconcious. Movies have largely altered the conception of what hypnosis really is.
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Postby BluTGI » Mon Jul 28, 2003 6:49 pm

Agreed, but im sure since man has figured out he can not force his will through the sub concs back door he may make his own.
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Postby Smooth » Tue Jul 29, 2003 4:28 am

like how, any theories? Would be very interested in some ideas. Not for my own practice, but just to quench this thirst of knowledge I have.
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Postby BluTGI » Tue Jul 29, 2003 4:31 pm

well any mad scientist when confronted with an obstruction creates an overly complex idea to go around the obstruction. thats all im saying. Im sure some dictator or power hungry person wishing to control masses of people will find a way around the free will obstruction.
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Postby Magius » Fri Sep 26, 2003 9:31 pm

I was wondering if anyone has heard of 'Post-Hypnotic Suggestion'? If so I would be interesting in hearing your thoughts on it. If you haven't heard of it then let me give a brief explanation. Post-Hypnotic suggestion is when someone hypnotizes another, tells them certain things about their world (environment) or themselves) and then takes them out of the hypnotic state. The theory is that by doing this you have subliminally affected their conscious without them knowing. Which is to say that they implement the information you gave them during hypnosis, they just don't know it. To give a crude example: Imagine you have low self-esteem, the hypnotists may hypnotise you and lead you to imagine many different social situations in which s/he will get you to explain what it is about the situation that makes you feel inferior. They then proceed to talk you through the situation and show you how you have nothing to feel inferior about, while also telling you why should have high self-esteem in such situations - they may even bluntly tell you that you are smart, or good looking, or what have you. After this the patient is awoken and freed of their low self-esteem.

Contemporary hypnosis has gone a long way. So long a way that there are now specialists in the field who help people with sicknesses, stresses, problems, fears, etc. So far, hypnosis has had a pretty good track record with helping people and there are a plethora of books available on the topic.

What's your take?
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Postby Qzxtvbzr » Sat Sep 27, 2003 12:38 am

Gadfly, do you know anything on the topic of Hypnotic scars, or mental scars left from post-hypnotic suggestion?

The way I understand hypnosis is it is simply a state of extreme concentration. You've probably gone into it yourself on occasion when pondering a subject or thinking hard about something and you find yourself "zoning". Ther is in fact scientific evidence that the brain's waves alter from "normal consciousness" in this state. I'm pretty sure a person has to be aware and almost want to be hypnotized for it to work, though.

To make extra money I perform Magic/Mentalism and at times I perform stage hypnosis


I'm sure you know what I'm tlaking about then, smooth, when I say people have to want to be hypnotized. If you do stage hypnotism aren't there people you have to send back to their seats saying their minds are too "strong" to be hypnotized? Ahh... here we go:

Hypnosis has become a favourite form of entertainment with stage shows where members of the public make themselves look like idiots by following instructions to act like a chicken, or believe they are a superstar. Strangely, people still flock to these shows and are even more eager to be picked to be the 'victim'.

A stage hypnotist will often declare to a person that their mind was too strong for them. These people go back to their seats feeling proud that they cannot be affected by this mysterious force. This is far from the truth; in reality, everybody can be hypnotised to a certain degree. The stage performer is looking for the show-offs. People who want to do strange things, act out a fantasy and to be able to blame hypnosis afterwards. This is not to say the victims are not hypnotised, but it wouldn't be an impressive show if the hypnotist commanded someone to do something and they refused.


from: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/A352496

On the topic of subliminal tapes... I don't think that's really hypnosis. Rather it's planting ideas in someone's mind (if sucsessful the subconscious) when it's most receptive (sleep). While it's similar to hypnotic suggestion, it isn't really hypnosis.
No paragraph breaks in your post? tl;dr.
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Postby oreagan » Thu Oct 16, 2003 4:56 am

Hypnosis, in the sense of having complete mental control over someone, is bunk. This has been proven by science. For reference, pick up a Psychology 101 textbook at any local university bookstore.

The placebo effect, however, is extremely potent, and some people are more suggestible than others (for a variety of sociological and likely genetic reasons). Modern hypnotists build up the victim's faith in the hypnosis (the placebo) and the effects can be very potent. The most common technique is called the "foot-in-the-door" method; again, a psychology book can give a better explanation, but if someone agrees to a minor command he is much more likely to agree to a larger command later. An real-life example is a study where volunteers went around and asked people if the volunteers could put up a small "Drive carefully" sign in their yard. The people who agreed to this were MUCH more likely to later allow the volunteers to put up a gaudy, obtrusive sign than people who had not been asked about the small sign. By having the subject agree to one small thing, and then another, and then another slightly larger command, hypnotists can produce effects. But it's not true control, nor is it possible to do any of the preceding without the subject's agreement (indeed, complete faith).
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Postby Magius » Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:14 pm

Qzx stated:
Gadfly, do you know anything on the topic of Hypnotic scars, or mental scars left from post-hypnotic suggestion?


No I don't. In fact, what you asked me is exactly what I ask of all psychology majors or psychologists I meet. Few have any answers.
I'm not sure whether you understood what post-hypnotic suggestion is. I don't have the book here with me, so I will generalize what I remember, but it is a suggestion that is being made to you to lingers in your mind after the hypnotic episode. The hypnotic episode can be many and varied. For instance, there was a commercial broadcasted on television regarding the recent elections. The commercial was the conservatives putting down the democrats. At one point in the commercial, when you slow down the frames enough, the word RATS shows up for something like a hundredth of a second. Not long enough for you to notice, but long enough for it to slip into your mind through your line of threshold (I think is the psychological term). The point is, they were trying to brainwash people into believing that the Democrats are rats and hence, to not vote for them.

As far as my understanding of hypnosis goes, yes it is an extreme form of concentration; but at the same time it is important to make the distinction that you aren't exactly conscious. It is another state of mind. For instance, I know friends who have been hypnotized, remember nothing, and the audience then told them all the funny and ridiculous things they did while hypnotized. So I would not agree with the way you have made it sound, as though, it is like daydreaming or focusing intensely on something. Or as you said...

Ther is in fact scientific evidence that the brain's waves alter from "normal consciousness" in this state.


..this is an important distinction. Unfortunately, I don't see how the above mixes with the last thing you have to say....

I'm pretty sure a person has to be aware and almost want to be hypnotized for it to work, though.


...with this I disagree for the reasons I have elucidated upon earlier in this post. If you like, I will post when I have the book in front of me and we can have a firmer footing on which to settle our debate.

What's your take?
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