The origin of the rape fantasy.

[Ierrellus]

I think I got lost at the assumption of superior or inferior genes. Genes function or they don't. The social issue of rape fantasy has nothing to do with that.

[Amorphos]

No woman wants to be raped.

Some do though, I’m not talking theory here. I understand how you feel though, but I think these subjects have to be taken for what they are, it’s a curious topic which goes deep into the subconscious and may have its roots in e.g. abuse [for both parties].

I have always found such discourses rather lewd. The reason being that, as Confucius and Plato noted, a person is mind, and therefore superior or inferior related to mind. Now, a superior mind, even noted by Kohlberg, abstracts concepts from the environment, while the inferior are want to parrot. A superior person lives by standards.

Naturally they are lewd ~ that’s the topic matter, and I doubt if Confucius and Plato found a cure or understanding of such matters! If we ever want to resolve them we have to understand their causal tree [so as to nip it in the bud].

[AnitaS]

No woman wants to be raped.

Some do though, I’m not talking theory here. I understand how you feel though, but I think these subjects have to be taken for what they are, it’s a curious topic which goes deep into the subconscious and may have its roots in e.g. abuse [for both parties].

I agree with Lizbethrose; I think the problem is that "rape fantasy" is really a misnomer.

It comes down to control - in a "rape fantasy" the "victim" (male or female) is in control throughout the experience, which is obviously not the case in the real thing.

See also: http://ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=172699&start=25#p2162529

[Trajicomic]

The rape fantasy exists because mediocre women, or ugly women, want the alpha male to fuck them, hard. No woman wants disgusting, weak, lowly men. But 99.9% of men are just that, weak and scrawny and stupid. All women want the alpha and only the alpha. But the truth is, realistically, women "settle" for less than best. So while women pretend to "love" and become infatuated with lesser men, they still, secretly, especially as they grow older, want the alpha male, their "dream man" to rape them.

The problem is that they're not beautiful enough women for an alpha male to divest his interest in them. Rape is risky. It's like stepping on a lot of toes. Alpha males are rapists, yes, but there are risks. And alpha males must battle against other alpha males. So an alpha male isn't going to risk raping just any female. This is why beautiful women are "raped" more, but uglier women wish they were. It's about value. Beautiful women have more value, and so men are willing to take much more risks, like rape, for them. Uglier women are not valued as much, and so don't have to worry about getting raped by anybody, let alone an alpha male.

Basically, ugly women have rape fantasies most often, because they're not attractive enough for an alpha male to take risks for them.

Beautiful women have rape fantasies too, but, usually theirs comes to life more often than the uglier women.

I know I just offended many people. But the truth doesn't give a shit about hurt feelings. If you want the truth, then accept the hardness.

Women want to get "raped" because they want to belong to an alpha male. Alpha males offer women protection and security. Of course women want this. That's why beautiful women demand alpha males are violent, mean, cruel, and vicious. Women demand violence. That's why alpha males are violent, because women WANT them to be so.

[Amorphos]

^^ lol

AnitaS wrote; It comes down to control - in a "rape fantasy" the "victim" (male or female) is in control throughout the experience, which is obviously not the case in the real thing.

Good point, the woman I knew said “if I could choose the man who raped me, then I‘d love it”, naturally this is not rape but playing the fantasy of it.
In cases where the lack of control is desired, its probably down to former abuse. I also think that if conditions for that could be arrived at [a kind of control in a sense], some women I have met seem to like the idea of that ~ though they never carried it out to the best of my knowledge.

[volchok]

But there are woman who have a rape fantasy and were never abused.
In fact, many of them are highly successful business woman who are used to be in control.
If a woman is completely in control (for instance in the work environment) and all the man bow down to her it doesn't seem strange to suppose that a man who could actually stand up to her and dominate her would look extremely attractive to her. A lot of woman like tough sex/s&m for that reason. The rape fantasy seems to be tough sex/s&m taken to the extreme.

[Amorphos]

Indeed, I have no doubt that there’s a tiny minority who for one reason or another enjoy the fantasy in its extreme yes.
I don’t think its ever an acceptable thing though, because the said minority play to a majority of rapist who aren’t playing the game. They may have been abused and have real anti-woman issues, even to the point of killing.

Besides, any kind of acceptance spoils the fantasy.

[volchok]

I don’t think its ever an acceptable thing though, because the said minority play to a majority of rapist who aren’t playing the game. They may have been abused and have real anti-woman issues, even to the point of killing.

I don't really understand your argument. Woman who have a rape fantasy don't have it written on their foreheads. They usually try to fulfill the fantasy with someone they trust which brings me to my next point which is rape fantasy isn't really the fantasy of being raped per se. It's the fantasy of experiencing and going trough certain feelings and circumstances that ones goes trough when being raped (i.e. loss of control) but always knowing that it's safe. It's like watching a film. You suspend your disbelief for a while but you know it's a film.

[Moreno]

I don’t think its ever an acceptable thing though, because the said minority play to a majority of rapist who aren’t playing the game. They may have been abused and have real anti-woman issues, even to the point of killing.

I don't really understand your argument. Woman who have a rape fantasy don't have it written on their foreheads. They usually try to fulfill the fantasy with someone they trust which brings me to my next point which is rape fantasy isn't really the fantasy of being raped per se. It's the fantasy of experiencing and going trough certain feelings and circumstances that ones goes trough when being raped (i.e. loss of control) but always knowing that it's safe. It's like watching a film. You suspend your disbelief for a while but you know it's a film.

This is well put.

I have had fantasies of being wrongfully imprisoned and other fantasies of hardship that I would ALWAYS answer no to if offered the real thing. Somehow the visual images - which are both temporally and experientially rather different from the real experiences - experienced in the privacy and safety of wherever I create them, serve some psychological purpose. Even if the real thing served this purpose, it is actually something else completely and the negative qualities far outweigh the positive.

[Amorphos]

I don't really understand your argument. Woman who have a rape fantasy don't have it written on their foreheads. They usually try to fulfil the fantasy with someone they trust which brings me to my next point which is rape fantasy isn't really the fantasy of being raped per se. It's the fantasy of experiencing and going trough certain feelings and circumstances that ones goes trough when being raped (i.e. loss of control) but always knowing that it's safe. It's like watching a film. You suspend your disbelief for a while but you know it's a film.

Ever heard of third parties? Imagine for example that in a social group or in a magazine [e.g. a mens mag] the fantasy was played out and well known by the group. If there were a member of said group or a reader of the mag the story was in, who was in fact a rapist or someone who fantasised about it [the actual thing], then to them it may justify their aims.
Are we seeing things a little too much in black and white when there are probably many variables, some women may like sadomasochism [in all its variations] and may ‘choose’ someone they know is a bit dodgy to invoke a fantasy with. By that I mean an actual rape but where only some of the conditions are met and controlled. Other women may actually like the danger aspect, though may not specifically want it to happen they may place themselves in situations where it is very likely e.g. going to well known locations where people get raped ~ as like the woman I spoke of earlier who went back to the same place she got raped and got raped again 3 more times.

I fully expect that there is every variation of the case here, no?

I have had fantasies of being wrongfully imprisoned and other fantasies of hardship that I would ALWAYS answer no to if offered the real thing. Somehow the visual images - which are both temporally and experientially rather different from the real experiences - experienced in the privacy and safety of wherever I create them, serve some psychological purpose. Even if the real thing served this purpose, it is actually something else completely and the negative qualities far outweigh the positive.

Maybe you’re a lightweight fantasist.

[volchok]

Ever heard of third parties? Imagine for example that in a social group or in a magazine [e.g. a mens mag] the fantasy was played out and well known by the group. If there were a member of said group or a reader of the mag the story was in, who was in fact a rapist or someone who fantasised about it [the actual thing], then to them it may justify their aims.

That's quite ridiculous. Should we stop playing video in games so that people don't become terrorists?

[Amorphos]

That's quite ridiculous. Should we stop playing video in games so that people don't become terrorists?

You are probably right, however terrorism in games/films etc is usually portrayed as the enemy and negative [for similar reasons]. I certainly agree that people shouldn’t be treated as if they cannot think for themselves, but unfortunately many cannot [or we'd have no crime].
I could also mention that the constant pushing of boundaries could lead from fantasy to reality, but that’s a bit like saying smoking pot will lead to heroin abuse.

[volchok]

You are probably right, however terrorism in games/films etc is usually portrayed as the enemy and negative [for similar reasons].

In films yes. In video games? Not at all. Just think of Grand Theft Out. Everyone kept running over people and beating up prostitutes. As the main character.

[Amorphos]

Ha yea that’s always funny, I nearly always do stuff like that or kill the main characters on both sides and steal everything.

I guess any of this is only a problem if one has a problem ~ but it’s that which is the problem and nothing else.