Human Depression

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

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Re: Human Depression

Postby Ierrellus » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:15 pm

turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Today, I'm having to fight depression by finding distractions from its grip on my mind. Had a rotten nightmare, vivid dream, last night. It's trying to color my day black. These nightmares always occur when the air is saturated with water, even if the sun is shining. In my case, arthritic pains translate into bad dreams. This tells me that my depression is physically instigated. D3 would not help much here. And I'm on so many meds that I'm almost afraid to take an OTC pain pill.


Ier-----what is your nutrition like?

It's not very good. I don't eat much "junk" (hollow calorie) food. I don't eat much in the way of fruit, either. My intake of cigarettes and beer does not help the situation. I was just wondering above what humidity has to do with the depression or how a physical problem can translate into an emotionally charged, negative, vivid dream.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby turtle » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:45 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Today, I'm having to fight depression by finding distractions from its grip on my mind. Had a rotten nightmare, vivid dream, last night. It's trying to color my day black. These nightmares always occur when the air is saturated with water, even if the sun is shining. In my case, arthritic pains translate into bad dreams. This tells me that my depression is physically instigated. D3 would not help much here. And I'm on so many meds that I'm almost afraid to take an OTC pain pill.


Ier-----what is your nutrition like?

It's not very good. I don't eat much "junk" (hollow calorie) food. I don't eat much in the way of fruit, either. My intake of cigarettes and beer does not help the situation. I was just wondering above what humidity has to do with the depression or how a physical problem can translate into an emotionally charged, negative, vivid dream.


do you think that your nutrition status has anything to do with vivid dreams?
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Re: Human Depression

Postby statiktech » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:36 pm

A pattern of chaotic, vivid dreams that affect your waking personality can often result from confusion or disruption of the reward systems in the brain. This may occur when certain neurotransmitters - like dopamine, seratonin, or even endorphins, among others - are depleted or underutilized. Although, a sensitivity due to overproduction can produce similar effects as well. In other words, the result is something of a natural withdrawal syndrome. Of course, physical sensitivity, like your arthritic pain, could [hypothetically] manifest as a sort of confusion in the brain if, say, endorphin production spikes, whereas dopamine and seratonin levels plateau for a protracted period of time.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby lizbethrose » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:15 am

turtle wrote:lizbeth---is it possible that d3 deficiency is the cause of some chronic depression?


I really can't say, turtle. I know my doctor recommended it as a way of dealing with SAD and it works in taking away a layer of depression for a time. If I were asked to define chronic depression, I'd say it's probably the result of unresolved stress factors in one's life that lead to anxiety which, in turn, leads to in inability to deal with stress--even a small amount of stress such as being late for your niece's baptism. I can theorize about the initial cause, But simply recognizing an initial cause isn't enough and oftentimes the initial cause came when a person's mind was still developing and was so deeply felt that the expected development of brain chemicals was altered.

The best thing to do is talk to your doctor and take the meds prescribed. And ask your doctor what the medication is for, what the side effects are, and how it's supposed to work.

One thing I've discovered is that doctors are very often reluctant to give a firm diagnosis. I think it's because they really don't know specifically--every mind is different and the doctors really only have general guidelines, loose labels, and how the patient describes his/her symptoms to go by. I think that why they often come across as throwing medications at a patient. Idn. Just my opinion--which is worth exactly what you've paid me. :D
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Ierrellus » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:06 pm

Yes, my nuitrition and habits have much to do with the nightmares I experience. And I thoroughly agree with Stat's post on what's happening in the brain. I'm trying to work on the bad habits. The problem is that stress, for me at least, often negates attempts to live healthier. It takes away incentive. So there's a vicious cycle of bad habits, brain reactions to these, numbness, and return to bad habits.
Popular Dr. Oz claims that the two best ways of limiting stress are exercize and sex! One counselor told me I just needed positive feedback from others. I attempt the first of these, have little opportunity for the second. And do get some of the third. Endorphin receptors have much to do with the situation, which is one why of the habits. But how to break the cycle--ah that's the rub! Because of the brain/environment feedback loop, all habits are difficult to break, even good ones. And I came from a family who, although experiencing other than what they claim, contend that being closer to God is the cure.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
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Arrogance hides a multitude of insecurities."
Perspectivism may mean never having to say you're certain.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby lizbethrose » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:19 am

Ierrellus wrote:Yes, my nuitrition and habits have much to do with the nightmares I experience. And I thoroughly agree with Stat's post on what's happening in the brain. I'm trying to work on the bad habits. The problem is that stress, for me at least, often negates attempts to live healthier. It takes away incentive. So there's a vicious cycle of bad habits, brain reactions to these, numbness, and return to bad habits.
Popular Dr. Oz claims that the two best ways of limiting stress are exercize and sex! One counselor told me I just needed positive feedback from others. I attempt the first of these, have little opportunity for the second. And do get some of the third. Endorphin receptors have much to do with the situation, which is one why of the habits. But how to break the cycle--ah that's the rub! Because of the brain/environment feedback loop, all habits are difficult to break, even good ones. And I came from a family who, although experiencing other than what they claim, contend that being closer to God is the cure.


One of the hardest things to do is exercise--at least for me, especially during our rainy season. But, heavy exercise really isn't needed. A stroll around the block is a good start, because you have to start slowly or else you're too easily defeated. Yoga stretches are also good and you can get books from the library that show you the poses. As for your nutrition, don't buy junk. Munch on uncooked green beans or sugar snap pea pods, instead of chips. Slice an apple and snack on the slices. Buy natural juices instead of beer. Ice water is also good, but you can overdose on water.

I don't know if this would work for everyone, but breaking habits is, imm, a matter of finding different neural pathways in your brain. My husband showed me an article about two right-handed men from separate parts of the country who'd each lost their right hands. They developed left-handedness as a result. After a couple of years, they both received fully functional prosthetic right hands, but they remained left-handed. They'd both rerouted their neural pathways so successfully that they didn't revert to being right-handed, although they could have. I'd also read that one good way to exercise you brain is to stop using your dominant handedness for about three weeks. I changed my watch from my left arm to my right, mainly to remind myself that I'm right-handed. Then I started using my left hand to do what I normally do with my right hand. I even put my pants on, both layers, with my left leg first. It was a challenge in the beginning--just remembering to do it. But now I find that I can do a lot of everyday tasks with either hand equally. That's the plasticity of the brain.

That's, imm, the way habits are broken. But you really have to want to do it. As far as nutrition goes, you have to really want to change the way you shop, first, so you don't have anything in your home that isn't nutritional. It's the really wanting to do it that I mean when I say not to use your depression as an excuse--for anything. You may never be completely free, but you'll have more times when the depression is no more than the blackness lurking in the back of your brain just waiting for you to weaken so it can take over again. You have to really hate how you feel with depression in order to change your neural paths, because it's so damned difficult. And there's no guarantee you'll ever be completely successful because it's always there lurking and waiting.

As for getting closer to God?--That may work as a sort of transference for a lot of people--I'm sure it does, as a matter of fact. I don't want to sound sacrilegious in any way, but you might want to try a big, soft, Spanish teddy bear named Jesus, instead. :D
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Ierrellus » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:19 pm

I agree that neuroplasticity is the key to breaking the negative cycles of the self/environment feedback loop. Doidge wrote an excellent book about neuroplasticity. Somewhere lost in all this is the will to change. Habits that are forty or fifty years old seem to defy attempts to disrupt them. It's not always a matter of having the "balls" to do it; the cycle is often too imbeded in the brain. Therefore, asking a depressed person to make changes that offer a healthier, happier lifestyle takes meds and therapy to get the person to even realize that a higher quality of life than what he/she has experienced exists.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
"If you linger to curse the snake that bit you, you will die of its poison."
Arrogance hides a multitude of insecurities."
Perspectivism may mean never having to say you're certain.
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Idealism is the balloon that floats from hot air.
Solipsism is the last refuge of the intellectually bankrupt.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby lizbethrose » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:29 am

Ierrellus wrote:I agree that neuroplasticity is the key to breaking the negative cycles of the self/environment feedback loop. Doidge wrote an excellent book about neuroplasticity. Somewhere lost in all this is the will to change. Habits that are forty or fifty years old seem to defy attempts to disrupt them. It's not always a matter of having the "balls" to do it; the cycle is often too imbeded in the brain. Therefore, asking a depressed person to make changes that offer a healthier, happier lifestyle takes meds and therapy to get the person to even realize that a higher quality of life than what he/she has experienced exists.


And you have had both meds and therapy and you've chosen your life style. So be it. We will agree to disagree.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Ierrellus » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:53 pm

Liz,
I'm not disagreeing with you. Blessed are those who have strong will-power. I'm only noting that the functional intensity of will varies among various people. I do believe there are pedophiles, rapists, murderers, etc., who, given meds and therapy cannot will a behavioral change. And there are people like me whose genetic and environmental experiences weaken will to change. It is the "excuse" phrase that upsets me. When I was able to work, my employer saw my entire condition as just an excuse for being unproductive. It smacks too much of "pull yourself up by your own boostraps" as a mandate for those who have no boots.
I'm in no way soliciting sympathy. I'm simply trying to do the best I can given the who and what of my being. No one really chooses his/her lifestyle unless healthier than I am.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
"If you linger to curse the snake that bit you, you will die of its poison."
Arrogance hides a multitude of insecurities."
Perspectivism may mean never having to say you're certain.
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Idealism is the balloon that floats from hot air.
Solipsism is the last refuge of the intellectually bankrupt.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Calrid » Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:34 pm

I've never been lazy exercise that way, but for a few years I stopped doing most exercise all together and shot up to 18.5 stone nigh on 260 pounds which is 70lbs over my ideal weight. I started off by walking around the castle vigorously, then when that didn't really tire me out I started walking up the hill; the first time I did that I made it a 1/3 of the way up collapsed, then dragged myself 2/3rds of the way up and collapsed again, to the scorn and derision of my dog, or at least in my mind anyway. The next time I pushed myself so I didn't stop after the first 1/3, which is the hardest and steepest part. I then the next time pushed to make it all the way to the top of the hill without stopping, then I did 1 lap around the top up and down the hill, about half a mile, then I tried for 2 and so on. I peaked on 4 times around and running along the top 3 times per week with 2 days of biking or 3 if the weather was crap. I've been told if you really push it, biking is as hard as running. It was monstrous, all of it, damned hard work, I had back pains the first week of hill walking too, until I strengthened my back up (old injury). Luckily it was near the end of summer so I had not so much trouble from asthma, and I found taking an antihystamine helped that. Now before this I was drinking and smoking regularly 10 cigs and a goodly amount of wine. So I cut that right out (treating myself just once a week) and although I wouldn't say I rigorously dieted, I can say I cut my calorie intake. That was fricking hard, the aching stomach of hunger is murderous for the first few hours.

Anyway I lost weight, shock horror gasp, about 3 stone in 3 months. Then I had to give up to the cold and wet weather. One benefit of this is I needed much less medication than usual for SAD, and I didn't suffer any depression at all, the only year this has happened since the condition started at 14. I am considering starting up again this year, to shed the last 3 stone. It's not easy exercise but it definitely gives you an elevated mood/high, you feel healthier, you have more energy, concentration, and your mind is sharper, and after a while you don't even mind so much the aches from worked muscles. A 2 hour hill walk, made me feel great. It's ideal for losing weight as it's not too intensive, so you burn fat but that's by the by.

It's not easy but it is damned effective in elevating mood, in my case because I was out in the sun, a double bonus, probably far more effective than SSRIs. I can't stay stuck in a gym, it's boring and expensive, so I found a cheap way to exercise, that at least is the easy part, the thinking. :)

It starts off being hell, but when you stop, you really really miss it. Trust me.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby turtle » Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:41 pm

lack of exercise is only one part of the problem..
nutrition must be optimal or your brain will not be happy....
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Re: Human Depression

Postby anon » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:18 pm

I think it's usually a mistake to relate "will" too strongly with "power". "Try harder" doesn't usually accomplish much. We generally tend to get obsessed about certain problems that bother us, but I'm not so sure it isn't the obsession itself that isn't the biggest problem. For instance, it is the obsession that makes me fixate on some aspect of my behavior that I don't like, that I want to change so badly. But that obsession limits the resources available to me by concentrating my attention on one overt pattern of behavior only - when there are so many aspects of myself (beliefs, "other" habits, etc.) that come together to create that particular pattern.

I've found this book helpful when it comes to these kinds of things. Of course by "this book" I mean taking the philosophy to heart, and actually undertaking the practices. Of course if you're depressed you may find it harder to actually undertake the practices (because you're too depressed to bother), but a little inspiration can combine with a litle practice and the practice itself is inspiring... and before you know it you may actually pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. We can let the determinists worry about out how it all works.

Of course you can just be depressed. You can just feel what it's like to be depressed and get to know it a little better. I don't mean wallow in it though - I mean pay attention to it, discover its patterns, notice what other factors feed it or inhibit it... really get a feel for it. I think depression is made worse by trying too hard to avoid it. That is the basic vicious cycle - it is often the case that the attempt to avoid some discomfort, contrary to our deep-seated beliefs, in fact empowers that discomfort.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Calrid » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:01 pm

turtle wrote:lack of exercise is only one part of the problem..
nutrition must be optimal or your brain will not be happy....


That's why I don't believe in dieting, I believe in reducing your calorie intake but not restricting your food along side a good exercise regime. Eat but eat sagely. Fat is not a necessity in large amounts nor is sugar, the body can make sugars and fats from other things, replace sugars and fat with long chain carbs, preferably something like pasta or rice that will fill you up too. As long as you provide the vitamins and minerals you need, you can run your body at a calorie deficit. You just have to have a decent understanding of which foods are good and which bad. And vitally I think treat yourself occasionally, it's not supposed to be a chore. If you pushed yourself hard one week then have a doughnut or two, it wont hurt occasionally and such foods used as rewards will taste like mana from heaven when you are hungry, and more importantly act as incentives.

On a side note I needed a lot of fluids after exercise, it was weird how enjoyable diet pepsi was, very little calories, but if I chilled it to absolute 0, and drank it after exercise it was like drinking ambrosia, thirst also helped. There are lots of neat little pleasurable tricks that fool your brain into thinking you are getting more than you are, simple pleasures when you are testing yourself give great rewards. :)

Brings me back to high intensity exercise, if you want to lose weight don't run or do things that raise your heart rate too high, you want to be burning fat not sugar. High heart rate mean you'll hit walls, and use quick high energy sources more often, less than about 140 bpm and the body can take time to burn fat. Stamina exercises are better than sprint exercises.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby lizbethrose » Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:07 am

Ierrellus wrote:Liz,
I'm not disagreeing with you. Blessed are those who have strong will-power. I'm only noting that the functional intensity of will varies among various people. I do believe there are pedophiles, rapists, murderers, etc., who, given meds and therapy cannot will a behavioral change. And there are people like me whose genetic and environmental experiences weaken will to change. It is the "excuse" phrase that upsets me. When I was able to work, my employer saw my entire condition as just an excuse for being unproductive. It smacks too much of "pull yourself up by your own boostraps" as a mandate for those who have no boots.
I'm in no way soliciting sympathy. I'm simply trying to do the best I can given the who and what of my being. No one really chooses his/her lifestyle unless healthier than I am.


Yes, there are the criminals you mention, but they're not necessarily chronic depressives--nor are chronic depressives necessarily criminals.

I am who and what I am. I didn't choose that any more than you chose your background. I've been depressed, if 'depressed' means the inability to adequately deal with any kind of stress, ever since I can remember and I remember a long ways back. I was a relatively low weight birth baby--just around 5 lbs. I had whooping cough when I was 8-9mo. old. I weighed about 12 lbs. at 14 mo. I was considered sickly. And yet, I was always active. Maybe that's the difference. I danced, swam, rode horseback, played basketball, climbed trees, followed what the boys did--I did most of the things I wasn't supposed to be able to do. I did it because I 'had to.' I did it because I wasn't 'supposed to.'

As for excuses, aren't you giving one now? Aren't you saying that you can't help yourself because the causes of your depression keep you from doing so? When you were working, why were you 'unproductive,' as far as your boss was concerned? Was your boss a lousy boss? Did your boss have a standard of productivity that other people met and did you, in your mind, meet and/or exceed his standard. Or were you often absent or late? I ask because I've been fired from two jobs because I was smarter than my bosses--or at least they thought so.

If you were born without boots, I was born without booties. That's why I've suggested that we agree to disagree. Okay? :)
"Be what you would seem to be - or, if you'd like it put more simply - never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise."
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:30 pm

anon wrote:I think it's usually a mistake to relate "will" too strongly with "power". "Try harder" doesn't usually accomplish much. We generally tend to get obsessed about certain problems that bother us, but I'm not so sure it isn't the obsession itself that isn't the biggest problem. For instance, it is the obsession that makes me fixate on some aspect of my behavior that I don't like, that I want to change so badly. But that obsession limits the resources available to me by concentrating my attention on one overt pattern of behavior only - when there are so many aspects of myself (beliefs, "other" habits, etc.) that come together to create that particular pattern.

I've found this book helpful when it comes to these kinds of things. Of course by "this book" I mean taking the philosophy to heart, and actually undertaking the practices. Of course if you're depressed you may find it harder to actually undertake the practices (because you're too depressed to bother), but a little inspiration can combine with a litle practice and the practice itself is inspiring... and before you know it you may actually pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. We can let the determinists worry about out how it all works.

Of course you can just be depressed. You can just feel what it's like to be depressed and get to know it a little better. I don't mean wallow in it though - I mean pay attention to it, discover its patterns, notice what other factors feed it or inhibit it... really get a feel for it. I think depression is made worse by trying too hard to avoid it. That is the basic vicious cycle - it is often the case that the attempt to avoid some discomfort, contrary to our deep-seated beliefs, in fact empowers that discomfort.

Thanks for this reference. It's a humane approach to suffering. The ad made me want to read the book. I don't have to dwell on my faults or make some radical change in lifestyle before I'm ready to do so. The faults are often the fertilizer for creative endeavors. They are not sins; they are not weakness. They simply are. From the perspective that book appears to give I can deal with them in a productive, healing way!
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
"If you linger to curse the snake that bit you, you will die of its poison."
Arrogance hides a multitude of insecurities."
Perspectivism may mean never having to say you're certain.
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Idealism is the balloon that floats from hot air.
Solipsism is the last refuge of the intellectually bankrupt.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:39 pm

lizbethrose wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Liz,
I'm not disagreeing with you. Blessed are those who have strong will-power. I'm only noting that the functional intensity of will varies among various people. I do believe there are pedophiles, rapists, murderers, etc., who, given meds and therapy cannot will a behavioral change. And there are people like me whose genetic and environmental experiences weaken will to change. It is the "excuse" phrase that upsets me. When I was able to work, my employer saw my entire condition as just an excuse for being unproductive. It smacks too much of "pull yourself up by your own boostraps" as a mandate for those who have no boots.
I'm in no way soliciting sympathy. I'm simply trying to do the best I can given the who and what of my being. No one really chooses his/her lifestyle unless healthier than I am.


Yes, there are the criminals you mention, but they're not necessarily chronic depressives--nor are chronic depressives necessarily criminals.

I am who and what I am. I didn't choose that any more than you chose your background. I've been depressed, if 'depressed' means the inability to adequately deal with any kind of stress, ever since I can remember and I remember a long ways back. I was a relatively low weight birth baby--just around 5 lbs. I had whooping cough when I was 8-9mo. old. I weighed about 12 lbs. at 14 mo. I was considered sickly. And yet, I was always active. Maybe that's the difference. I danced, swam, rode horseback, played basketball, climbed trees, followed what the boys did--I did most of the things I wasn't supposed to be able to do. I did it because I 'had to.' I did it because I wasn't 'supposed to.'

As for excuses, aren't you giving one now? Aren't you saying that you can't help yourself because the causes of your depression keep you from doing so? When you were working, why were you 'unproductive,' as far as your boss was concerned? Was your boss a lousy boss? Did your boss have a standard of productivity that other people met and did you, in your mind, meet and/or exceed his standard. Or were you often absent or late? I ask because I've been fired from two jobs because I was smarter than my bosses--or at least they thought so.

If you were born without boots, I was born without booties. That's why I've suggested that we agree to disagree. Okay? :)

Please see Anon's reference.
My last boss hated men in general. Customers liked me; she didn't. Examples--I claimed the right to have water at my desk as a reasonable accomodation. (Pills dry out my mouth.) She then allowed cashiers to have soft drinks at the registers, where they could spill and ruin things. My desk was downstairs where the freight came in. It had no computer on it or any other sensitive device. She simply did not want the behavioral health people to have any say in what she did.
No, I'm not giving up or making excuses. I'm doing the best I can with what I've got. Again, please read Anon's reference. I should refrain from posting on a bad day, but I feel that would be dishonest.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
"If you linger to curse the snake that bit you, you will die of its poison."
Arrogance hides a multitude of insecurities."
Perspectivism may mean never having to say you're certain.
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Idealism is the balloon that floats from hot air.
Solipsism is the last refuge of the intellectually bankrupt.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby anon » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:32 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
anon wrote:I think it's usually a mistake to relate "will" too strongly with "power". "Try harder" doesn't usually accomplish much. We generally tend to get obsessed about certain problems that bother us, but I'm not so sure it isn't the obsession itself that isn't the biggest problem. For instance, it is the obsession that makes me fixate on some aspect of my behavior that I don't like, that I want to change so badly. But that obsession limits the resources available to me by concentrating my attention on one overt pattern of behavior only - when there are so many aspects of myself (beliefs, "other" habits, etc.) that come together to create that particular pattern.

I've found this book helpful when it comes to these kinds of things. Of course by "this book" I mean taking the philosophy to heart, and actually undertaking the practices. Of course if you're depressed you may find it harder to actually undertake the practices (because you're too depressed to bother), but a little inspiration can combine with a litle practice and the practice itself is inspiring... and before you know it you may actually pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. We can let the determinists worry about out how it all works.

Of course you can just be depressed. You can just feel what it's like to be depressed and get to know it a little better. I don't mean wallow in it though - I mean pay attention to it, discover its patterns, notice what other factors feed it or inhibit it... really get a feel for it. I think depression is made worse by trying too hard to avoid it. That is the basic vicious cycle - it is often the case that the attempt to avoid some discomfort, contrary to our deep-seated beliefs, in fact empowers that discomfort.

Thanks for this reference. It's a humane approach to suffering. The ad made me want to read the book. I don't have to dwell on my faults or make some radical change in lifestyle before I'm ready to do so. The faults are often the fertilizer for creative endeavors. They are not sins; they are not weakness. They simply are. From the perspective that book appears to give I can deal with them in a productive, healing way!

No problem at all, Ierrellus.
"Distraction is the only thing that consoles us for our miseries, and yet it is itself the greatest of our miseries." - Blaise Pascal

"The bombs we plant in each other are ticking away." - Edward Yang

"To a fly that likes the smell of putrid / Meat the fragrance of sandalwood is foul. / Beings who discard Nirvana / Covet coarse Samsara's realm." - Saraha
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Re: Human Depression

Postby lizbethrose » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:22 am

When I ask that we agree to disagree, it's because an impasse seems to have been reached, yet I'd like to maintain a friendship. I accept you as you are until you come across as being unhappy with your life. Then, I try to help in as much as I can. Okay? Can we now agree to disagree?
"Be what you would seem to be - or, if you'd like it put more simply - never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise."
— Lewis Carroll
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:47 pm

lizbethrose wrote:When I ask that we agree to disagree, it's because an impasse seems to have been reached, yet I'd like to maintain a friendship. I accept you as you are until you come across as being unhappy with your life. Then, I try to help in as much as I can. Okay? Can we now agree to disagree?

I just misunderstand you sometimes. Even when and if we disagree that is not sufficient cause to end a friendship. Only a month out of the hospital, I still tread on thin ice. I did what you told me not to do--devoted most of my time an energy toward J. I should have been tending to myself. That relationship is the one that needs revisional thinking.
I think now we can discuss the impact human depression has on family and friends of the sufferer. All of mine are very concerned about my surreal love affair.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
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Arrogance hides a multitude of insecurities."
Perspectivism may mean never having to say you're certain.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby tatoolass » Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:22 am

here it will help you get depressed :D


What Causes Depression?

There is not just one cause of depression. It is a complex disease that can occur as a result of a multitude of factors. For some, depression occurs due to a loss of a loved one, a change in one's life, or after being diagnosed with a serious medical disease. For others, depression just happened, possibly due to their family history.

Factors involved in causing depression, include:

>A history of depression in the family: It is believed that depression is passed genetically from generation to generation, although the exact way this occurs is not known.
>Grief from the death or loss of a loved one.
>Personal disputes, like conflict with a family member.
>Physical, sexual, or emotional abuse.
>Major events that occur in everyone's lives, such as moving, graduating, changing jobs, getting married or divorced, retiring, etc.
>Serious illness: depressed feelings are a common reaction to many medical illnesses.
>Certain medications
>Substance abuse: close to 30% of people with substance abuse problems also have major depression.
>Other personal problems: these may come in the forms of social isolation due to other mental illnesses, or being cast out of a family or social circle.


:banana-dance: :D :banana-dance: :D :banana-dance: :D :banana-dance: :D
"You can smile if you're broken, but not all will know it's fake."


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Re: Human Depression

Postby lizbethrose » Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:29 am

Welcome to ilp, tat.
"Be what you would seem to be - or, if you'd like it put more simply - never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise."
— Lewis Carroll
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Ierrellus » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:11 pm

Wecome, Tat! I second the emotion.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
"If you linger to curse the snake that bit you, you will die of its poison."
Arrogance hides a multitude of insecurities."
Perspectivism may mean never having to say you're certain.
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Idealism is the balloon that floats from hot air.
Solipsism is the last refuge of the intellectually bankrupt.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby turtle » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:36 pm

i get depressed when death comes into my mind...
my psychoanalyst says this is normal...
i dont believe him...
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Re: Human Depression

Postby chrisxmartin » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:41 pm

I think that depression is a lot more straightforward than people are making it out to be. It's quite the complicated emotion, but a very simple concept.

Depression can be simply characterized by a "depression" in happiness. Specifically depression is either; chronic or acute and chemical or situational.

It is important from a psychoanalytical standpoint to be able to classify as broad of a term as this as simply as possible.

And before people ask, yes, I have been there and back. Life is a much more rewarding experience now.

I see a lot of people discussing nutrition and exercise as well. Both of these play a critical role in the genuine rehabilitation of depression in my opinion. My take on both of this are as straightforward as it was for depression!

Diet: Keep it simple.
Take in plenty of complex carbohydrates, lean protein, and healthy fats throughout the course of five to six equally portioned meals a day.
My take on fats: If I can see it floating at the surface of water at room temperature, I assume that it will do the same in my blood.
My take on carbohydrates: If it isn't brown and doesn't remind me of a fist full of nuts and grain, I avoid it. I generalize everything else as rapid metabolizing (or simple) carbohydrates, which spike insulin levels.
My take on proteins: If it's not lean, I assume that it will not make me lean.

I am also very keen on bioavailability. If you don't know what this is, you should do your research. It deals with the different metabolic properties of different foods. This is a very important aspect of nutrition that is often overlooked.

Exercise: Keep it simple:
Strictly strength training and MMA for flexibility and diversity.
Strength training: Complex exercises only, no isolation (i.e. barbell curls). If it doesn't weight at least 135 lbs and recruit many different muscle groups, I won't lift it. I utilize a strength training program that operates under the principal of liner progression and comprises of five different exercises only, three of the exercises per session, for a total of three workouts a week. It's a simple and quick routine that anyone can do with minimal resources.
Cardio: I don't do it. Strength training has been proven to be far more efficient in maintaining optimal health than anything else. The amount of effort required to squat 285 lbs for 5 sets of 5 three days a week causes your body to go into an incredibly anabolic state. This effort also increases your Basil Metabolic Rate over a course of 24-36 hours. What does this all mean? Increased calories burnt even in the absence of exercise. More, in fact that what can be done with the same amount of time spent on a treadmill. Also, we know that muscle burns far more calories than fat. Increase your lean muscle mass and your metabolism will increase in a directly proportional fashion.

This all fairly well encompasses my take on fitness from a nutritional and physical standpoint.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:02 pm

Welcome to ILP.
http://www.answers.com/topic/bioavailabilty
I've been told that vinegar helps alleviate arthritic pain. After a week or so of eating Kosher pickles and drinking the vinegar, my arthritic pains and consequent bad dreams have become less severe (almost nonexistent). Apparantly, the bioavailabilty inherent in vinegar is enough to prove remedial for me. Biodiversity, however, determines what helps whom.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
"If you linger to curse the snake that bit you, you will die of its poison."
Arrogance hides a multitude of insecurities."
Perspectivism may mean never having to say you're certain.
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Idealism is the balloon that floats from hot air.
Solipsism is the last refuge of the intellectually bankrupt.
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