Human Depression

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

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Re: Human Depression

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:36 pm

filmslob

I don't want to function and be happy, I want to take part in my life completely, including the parts that suck. They suck for a reason, your body is telling you something.

Well, don't you think that taking part of your life completely is part of what it means to 'function'? And I'm not so sure that we can take part in our lives 'completely' - we can only do that in the moments - and sometimes I find that when we begin to lose control of that trying for completeness, we gain more of it. I've personally come to realize that very often 'trying is lying'. :lol:
I don't understand why you wouldn't want to be happy? That's not to say that you go in search of happiness in a hedonistic way, but what is wrong with being happy?
Taking part in the part of our lives which suck is a process of growing and evolving, unless we are simply doing it for masochistic purposes, just for the sake alone of feeling the pain. That may not be weakness but neither is it strength either. It perhaps takes more inner strenght to choose happiness over sadness. There are many things a person can do to make their self feel more alive and to experience life - but in a more positive way - albeit we also have to face the pain and the negative but in a more positive way.

It isn't just your body, but there is another part of us that is telling us something..unless we, well, feel that we are nothing but body.

Why is it that we sometimes so choose to swim in unhappiness?
~ Carlos Ruiz Zafon

“One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. By the time the mind is able to comprehend what has happened, the wounds of the heart are already too deep.”

“But in good time you'll see that sometimes what matters isn't what one gives but what one gives up.”

A room without books ..is like a body without a soul.”

“I couldn't help thinking that if I, by pure chance, had found a whole universe in a single unknown book, buried in that endless necropolis, tens of thousands more would remain unexplored, forgotten forever. I felt myself surrounded by millions of abandoned pages, by worlds and souls without an owner sinking in an ocean of darkness, while the world that throbbed outside the library seemed to be losing its memory, day after day, unknowingly, feeling all the wiser the more it forgot.”
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Re: Human Depression

Postby turtle » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:49 pm

FilmSnob wrote:
turtle wrote:
"why does shit suck so damn much"???? what shit are you talking about???


I don't get it... weren't you a depressive?


of course im a depressive...i am asking you about your personal shit....
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Re: Human Depression

Postby FilmSnob » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:49 pm

Well, the way I see it, there are two (among many) types of people: people that want to adapt to whatever is in front of them and be happy about it, and people who want to experience life on different levels: "true," "beautiful," "sad," etc., all form part of the tapestry of what human existence is. For many of us, it is a matter of conjuring up your bravery and courage instead of giving up and taking a pill to make you feel better about giving up.

Would you rather look at an atomic watch, stress out about time slipping, and then eat healthy so that it doesn't bother you so much, or look at the same watch, take some brain-bleeding mushrooms, and listen to a lecture on the scientific principles that allow the watch to work? The answer, for me, is easy.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby FilmSnob » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:52 pm

turtle wrote:
FilmSnob wrote:
turtle wrote:
"why does shit suck so damn much"???? what shit are you talking about???


I don't get it... weren't you a depressive?


of course im a depressive...i am asking you about your personal shit....


Oh man... You have some balls. I can't tell you, if only because anything less then several volumes of books I am not yet qualified to write would suffice.

I am a Nietzschean in the sense that I strongly believe that each person is responsible for their own answers. This is not from some Stoic ideal, but because only you have the precice combination of psychological and environmental elements that you have: only you are qualified to give the answers.

The questions, however, I will be extatic to help you with.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby turtle » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:56 pm

FilmSnob wrote:Well, the way I see it, there are two (among many) types of people: people that want to adapt to whatever is in front of them and be happy about it, and people who want to experience life on different levels: "true," "beautiful," "sad," etc., all form part of the tapestry of what human existence is. For many of us, it is a matter of conjuring up your bravery and courage instead of giving up and taking a pill to make you feel better about giving up.

Would you rather look at an atomic watch, stress out about time slipping, and then eat healthy so that it doesn't bother you so much, or look at the same watch, take some brain-bleeding mushrooms, and listen to a lecture on the scientific principles that allow the watch to work? The answer, for me, is easy.


why cant you do both....i see some shit that is shit and i dont like it and i will never like it...like death...wht shit dont you like???

and arc what dont you like????things are good and bad..
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Re: Human Depression

Postby FilmSnob » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:15 pm

Death? Are you sure it's death?

Ok, here goes one of my answers, if only partially: The times I have looked at death dispairingly (intead of as a friend, which is more usual) it has been because I have been meditating towards it, approaching the brutallity of existence little by little. At that moment of nakedness, psychological nakedness, you finally see death. A dark, dark, dark spectre there.

A lot of people stop here and end up more depressed.

Others keep going. The darkness, the absolute darkness... What is there?!?!?!? What is being hidden from me?????? Why can't there be a little light there??

And then it hits you! Like the most beautiful pound of bricks ever to hit your head... Darkness is beautiful in death! It is precicely the fact that, not only do you not know, but that you cannot ever know what is being hidden by the darkness, that makes life so goddamn exiting in that moment. Why fear the unknown? I look at the dark spectre of death and my balls tingle. A smile creeps up on my face. It is a heavy smile, like upside down gravity.

Very exciting.

Then, having found an answer and on my way back, having aquired a certain distance from it, I start fearing it again, but in a different way. I start becoming aware of the years left to me between now and then... My clock is ticking relentlessly. And here, I think, lies most people's problems with death: it is not death that bothers you, but life! There isn't ebough time in life for you to feel like you can get anything worth anything done.

Here is when I suggest: do drugs, do weird and different things, get different perspectives, and make a solid plan that you can get your feelings behind.

All of this is, of course, much too cheerful for the depressed mind. For the depressed mind, I suggest two things:

(1)Smoke weed, let your problems fade into the background and your interests take the foreground.

(2) Ride that fucker untill the last conscecuences. Let your darkness carry you as far as it wants to, but make sure your mind is able to keep up. And just explore the deepest recesses of your horror. It will hurt much more than it hurts now, but you will eventually come back out (if you are able not to kill yourself) and the new you will be.... much stronger. You will know things about people that they will die without ever having even approached. You will look into the faces of normal people, people that have never gone through fire, and you will see straight through them, like they were a chair. if you are able not to kill yourself. And if you do do this, you will even look back at me, filmsnob, with contempt: how superficial his description! How childish!
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:20 pm

turtle...

and arc what dont you like????things are good and bad..

And how do you measure what is good and bad, little reptile?
There have been times when I thought something was 'bad' that it eventually turned out to be good - it was a learning experience and I gained insight and freedom from it.
And there were times when i thought that something was good but it actually evolved into something which became more negative and uncomfortable to me - than positive.
Maybe, just maybe, the best kind of pattern to be in is one in which we don't necessarily judge something as good or bad but just observe it and at some point that part of our self which is not our body will speak to us and we will act accordingly.
So for me it isn't necessarily a question of good or bad but of how it may serve me or another by teaching me something...but that comes to me, hopefully, when I'm not questioning it so much but just living with the question[s]. I am beginning to find increasingly more that questioning and trying to come up with the answers (forcing them) just lead to more struggle and conflict within me...like a dog chasing his own tail. I can do that. :lol: After a measure of thinking and questioning and struggling, I come to see that it's a good thing to just let go and allow another part of ourselves to give us the answer. Some questions really have no answers - like Rilke (or is it Rumi?) I tend to intuit this... I've come to experience it in myself.

Aside from that, what don't I like? Well, I don't like mushrooms or olives or eggplant. I also don't like 100 degree weather with awful humidity. I don't like to see children or animals abused - physical or verbal. I don't like slipping on ice and I don't like dirty snow that's been hanging around a long time....to name a few, little reptile... :lol:

Were you looking for a particular answer? :evilfun:
~ Carlos Ruiz Zafon

“One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. By the time the mind is able to comprehend what has happened, the wounds of the heart are already too deep.”

“But in good time you'll see that sometimes what matters isn't what one gives but what one gives up.”

A room without books ..is like a body without a soul.”

“I couldn't help thinking that if I, by pure chance, had found a whole universe in a single unknown book, buried in that endless necropolis, tens of thousands more would remain unexplored, forgotten forever. I felt myself surrounded by millions of abandoned pages, by worlds and souls without an owner sinking in an ocean of darkness, while the world that throbbed outside the library seemed to be losing its memory, day after day, unknowingly, feeling all the wiser the more it forgot.”
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Re: Human Depression

Postby dan25 » Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:31 pm

Here seemed the most appropriate place to post this.
All this is still quite new to me.

In the last year, or so, I have learned as much as I could, especially about history, religion, science.
I already had a science background, but my previous experience was in biological science, not physics.
Even the way I viewed science has changed drastically.
I wanted to try to answer the 'big' questions....

Oh, to be a "contented fool"!!!
All you fucking "real philosophers"... Does that phrase make anyone else laugh? What the fuck is a "real philosopher"? Everyone posting on here, myself included, are only 'educated fools'.
My point is this: after thinking about things, and on the condition that logic works as well as we believe it does, it ALL seems terribly bleak! This shit has broken my heart, to be honest. I now see, for example, how religion is one of the biggest problems on Earth; religion needs to be abolished; I am passionate in my hatred of all religion.
I no longer believe in the existence of "free will".
Simply because the odds of gods existence are incalculable, I maintain that those odds can't be known any more precisely than 50/50. But if some sort of god does exist, it must be one 'evil' fuck..
Why did no one warn me about this shit?
Its all rather saddening.


The name of this site is quite funny, really!
I'm a little bit too sensitive and intelligent not to be hurt by the answers I believe I worked out.
I love philosophy?? Personally I fucking hate philosophy.
That is all, thankyou for reading my "rant of sadness".
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Re: Human Depression

Postby obe » Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:46 pm

FilmSnob wrote:Death? Are you sure it's death?

Ok, here goes one of my answers, if only partially: The times I have looked at death dispairingly (intead of as a friend, which is more usual) it has been because I have been meditating towards it, approaching the brutallity of existence little by little. At that moment of nakedness, psychological nakedness, you finally see death. A dark, dark, dark spectre there.

A lot of people stop here and end up more depressed.

Others keep going. The darkness, the absolute darkness... What is there?!?!?!? What is being hidden from me?????? Why can't there be a little light there??

And then it hits you! Like the most beautiful pound of bricks ever to hit your head... Darkness is beautiful in death! It is precicely the fact that, not only do you not know, but that you cannot ever know what is being hidden by the darkness, that makes life so goddamn exiting in that moment. Why fear the unknown? I look at the dark spectre of death and my balls tingle. A smile creeps up on my face. It is a heavy smile, like upside down gravity.

Very exciting.

Then, having found an answer and on my way back, having aquired a certain distance from it, I start fearing it again, but in a different way. I start becoming aware of the years left to me between now and then... My clock is ticking relentlessly. And here, I think, lies most people's problems with death: it is not death that bothers you, but life! There isn't ebough time in life for you to feel like you can get anything worth anything done.

Here is when I suggest: do drugs, do weird and different things, get different perspectives, and make a solid plan that you can get your feelings behind.

All of this is, of course, much too cheerful for the depressed mind. For the depressed mind, I suggest two things:

(1)Smoke weed, let your problems fade into the background and your interests take the foreground.

(2) Ride that fucker untill the last conscecuences. Let your darkness carry you as far as it wants to, but make sure your mind is able to keep up. And just explore the deepest recesses of your horror. It will hurt much more than it hurts now, but you will eventually come back out (if you are able not to kill yourself) and the new you will be.... much stronger. You will know things about people that they will die without ever having even approached. You will look into the faces of normal people, people that have never gone through fire, and you will see straight through them, like they were a chair. if you are able not to kill yourself. And if you do do this, you will even look back at me, filmsnob, with contempt: how superficial his description! How childish!

Film snob: the greatest, most releiving(reliving?) Thing I have read on ILP as of yet. When I read this, it first wanted to reach out to You and make You my friend (eternally, if there is such a thing) and later much later by innuendo relieve myself by piling Karma on you::::::thanks for the stuff in the arcives.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Ierrellus » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:45 pm

Most times the darkness comes across as some final end in which my being is dissolved. Othertimes darkness is a warm blanket over my icy thoughts. Sometimes my deepest depressions are potting soil for the growth of creative ideas--the flowers of hope, not the flowers of evil. Uncertainty means there are possibilities of existence yet unknown. This is not necessarily a religious concept. It is alive in the dance of matter and energy, in the conservation of energy, in the recognition that all particulars are reclaimed by the whole. Decay is fertilizer. Death is one side of the cycle of existence.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Gobbo » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:30 am

I've been pretty happy recently, but the other day I, out of nowhere, got rocked by depression. Like someone was hitting me with a depression gun or something. It felt so arbitrary and weird. Consciously I was like 'I don't get why I'm so sad right now...?'

Anyways I got some wine and drank it. I felt like it was the wrong decision, and that I should have 'worked through it' or something. But I dunno. I kind of just refuse to entertain depression. Usually I do shrooms and that corrects me psychologically for like months, but I couldn't get any.

Anyways the next day I was back to my usual self.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Jamazing » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:14 pm

turtle wrote:What in the world are people talking about when they say a person is depressed?


I have been diagnosed with major depressive disorder, for me it is much different than others have expressed or discussed on this thread. I was diagnosed after my suicide attempt last year. The root of my problem is the circling thoughts I had no control over.

I would continually have a random thought start circling in my mind and I could not break the cycle. I could not get my mind off of the subject, I would run in over and over, looking at it in every possible way but stopping was not an option. It caused severe fatigue and high irritability.

I would run conversation in my head with other people before I had them. I would practice what I would say, then think how the person would respond. Then I would think of how I would respond in return. Eventually carrying out the entire conversation. When completed I would start over with them responding differently, running every possible scenario. This would lead to me often having a hostile or combative approach when I actually had the conversation with the person.

These question and answers you all have asked about how one feels when depressed never crossed my mind because my mind did not have time for such questions. My mind was constantly obsessing over what I should or shouldn't do, how I should or shouldn't react. There was no time for self-reflection. My only relief from these circling thoughts come from self-medication (drugs and alcohol).

This state of mental being created me to lose interest in most of my hobbies and activities. The things I loved and enjoyed became too complicated for me to continue doing. If I was passionate about something my mind would circle more and more about it, until it became a debilitating hinderance in my life. I wanted the thoughts to stop so badly I would quit the activity or hobby.

This desire to stop thinking drove me from the things I loved and the people I loved. I became very isolated and unattached. As a very outgoing and people pleasing child, this created a thought of not being who I was or wanted to be. This was the source of my low self-esteem and self-confidence. I was not the person I was or wanted to be anymore.

With my uncontrollable thoughts, I became very tired: mentally and physically. The lack of ability to shut it off caused many sleepless night. Over the years (15-20) my body became wore down. Getting out of bed and physical exercise became impossible. The circling thoughts drove me to the point I could not go on any longer. I could not see the things going on around me or even notice what was going on around me, it had debilitated me to the point of complete introversion.

I am now on anti-depressants and even though the thoughts try to keep circling, I now have the ability to stop them. I have also learned techniques to get them out when they need to be worked out. For me depression is not a condition because of outside influences or even a conscious thought about my own current situation, it comes from me not being able to control my own thinking.

I will never forget that first day, at the age of 38, I was able to look out my window and think of nothing but how beautiful that tree was on the mountainside. That peace of mind was priceless.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby MagsJ » Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:27 am

Knowing what causes one's-self to become down/depressed is the answer to the cure, but sadly most will never find the answer as it is akin to a needle in a haystack..
Examine what is said, not him who speaks.
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The Narcissist exists whereby every activity and relationship is defined by the hedonistic need to acquire the symbols of spiritual wealth, this becoming the only expression of rigid, yet covert, social hierarchies. It is a culture where liberalism only exists insofar as it serves a consumer society, and even art, sex and religion lose their liberating power.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Ierrellus » Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:04 pm

Gobbo wrote:I've been pretty happy recently, but the other day I, out of nowhere, got rocked by depression. Like someone was hitting me with a depression gun or something. It felt so arbitrary and weird. Consciously I was like 'I don't get why I'm so sad right now...?'

Anyways I got some wine and drank it. I felt like it was the wrong decision, and that I should have 'worked through it' or something. But I dunno. I kind of just refuse to entertain depression. Usually I do shrooms and that corrects me psychologically for like months, but I couldn't get any.

Anyways the next day I was back to my usual self.

My episodes seem arbitrary also. Depression comes and goes. Shrooms are no less medicinal than are the prescriptions I rely on. Recently, my meds aren't working. I'm consistently sad for no good reason.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Moreno » Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:39 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
Gobbo wrote:I've been pretty happy recently, but the other day I, out of nowhere, got rocked by depression. Like someone was hitting me with a depression gun or something. It felt so arbitrary and weird. Consciously I was like 'I don't get why I'm so sad right now...?'

Anyways I got some wine and drank it. I felt like it was the wrong decision, and that I should have 'worked through it' or something. But I dunno. I kind of just refuse to entertain depression. Usually I do shrooms and that corrects me psychologically for like months, but I couldn't get any.

Anyways the next day I was back to my usual self.

My episodes seem arbitrary also. Depression comes and goes. Shrooms are no less medicinal than are the prescriptions I rely on. Recently, my meds aren't working. I'm consistently sad for no good reason.

We've got a thread going here by anti-natalists arguing that life is better off never having been lived. So perhaps there are reasons.

Or perhaps there are specific reasons why you as an individual are not happy.

I mean, I think back to school. I was often not happy there because sitting still and dealing with at least a somewhat adversarial educational set up suited me less than other children. I did not have a problem, they did not have a problem. We thrived in different learning environments. When I drive the learning and or can be active and the teachers view themselves as expert supports for my learning, I thrive. I am sure if I had been in school even just a decade later, someone would have suggested meds to me. I didn't need meds, I needed a different learning environment.

One thing I wish is that individuals and society looked at emotions as sane until proven otherwise. So I would suggest you actually approach your own emotional body with the assumption that there is a reason you are sad and that it is a good reason. And see what is there and try hard not to judge in advance or even in the early stages whether whatever comes up REALLY should make you sad. Just explore as far as this goes.

Note: I am not suggesting you dive into habitual negative thinking, and any other depressive thinking pattern. More to uncover what might be there that you are yearning for or are pissed at.

I have found that depression often has desires one feels guilty about or seem impossible to fulfill AND OR repressed anger at the root of it.

What would you wish for that is not present in your life?
What is pissing you off that you have a hard time admitting pisses you off?

And what are the ideas of yourself that lead you to believe you do not deserve those things you desire or that you should get angry?

If this feels wrong to you, just ignore it.

And it is not a suggestion about wallowing, but a real self interview where the end results are not determined in advance.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:19 pm

The best remedy for depression is the cultivation of desires (the main vehicle for unformed, fluid, available life force), and to allow oneself to fundamentally dislike what is of negative value to ones wholeness.

It is likely not possible to not be depressed with an objectivist, Christian-like view that "all is essentially of God and therefore I should be benign toward it". With such an attitude one effectively negates ones own being, which relies on specific valuation, which means difference.

By cultivating and refining desire - through whatever means, one cultivates ones own inner resilience to both alien values and temporary lack of proper values. Desire is the form in which the potential for valuing makes itself known to us. And valuing is being, so desire is ''sacred" to the being, whereas that cognitive construct of self-negation and guilt that presents itself as "universal love" is destructive.

I believe that one can love the entire world only if ones desire is so strong and so completely accepted, that it exceeds ones cognitive scope without threatening it - so that all that ones knows is automatically loved.
Last edited by Fixed Cross on Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:25 pm

Depression became a trend at the same time that the humanist view of all-is-equal began to hold sway. People were rid of the moral ground for their self-valuing, learned to see themselves not as part of God, which was okay for ''incomplete minds'' as it cradles them, but as part of a completely meaningless process from chaos - the contemporary superstition about the universe, in which incomplete minds can not thrive or grow. Depression is often symptom of belief in this false God - a morality that does not sustain ones self-valuing, ones own psychological integrity, which is a form of happiness that expresses itself often as suffering, but is fundamentally positive.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:33 pm

So there are two factors here which point to the same "zero-sum" premise:

Obligatory universal love (= self-rejection)
Belief that "all is determined by processes alien to my feelings" (= self negation)

The remedy is the realization that the universe relies for its very consistency on forces such as one recognizes in oneself as desire, which can be refined into will.
Humans are at a state of evolution where the process of creation (active coming to be) can be reversed, due to a few simple errors in the programming, such as the ones mentioned above.

A depressed person generally needs to become far less adapted, far more radical and self-centered to gain traction, which is the feeling of power, freedom and the possibility of meaning, which is always actively created by the subject feeding off its subjects instincts in coordination with some form of creative/aesthetic drive, - a modus of self-valuing.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:44 pm

All cases of depression I've seen and lived are and were due to some one surrendering on some level to a "greater reality". This is exactly what many drug do. It temporarily alleviates pressure. But it does so at the cost of the tension that is the self - it disables a part of the self, whereby this self, which is in a modus of suffering, suffers less. But there is no easy way back to dignity, virtue, strength, happinesss from here - one needs to set off a 'violent revolution'' within the self, wherein the "means of production" (individual valuing-capacity, the power to desire=>will) are reclaimed. This can not be done in peace, in normalcy - it must be the very antithesis of what these two words have come to mean in our society.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:10 pm

dan25 wrote:Here seemed the most appropriate place to post this.
All this is still quite new to me.

In the last year, or so, I have learned as much as I could, especially about history, religion, science.
I already had a science background, but my previous experience was in biological science, not physics.
Even the way I viewed science has changed drastically.
I wanted to try to answer the 'big' questions....

Oh, to be a "contented fool"!!!
All you fucking "real philosophers"... Does that phrase make anyone else laugh? What the fuck is a "real philosopher"? Everyone posting on here, myself included, are only 'educated fools'.
My point is this: after thinking about things, and on the condition that logic works as well as we believe it does, it ALL seems terribly bleak! This shit has broken my heart, to be honest. I now see, for example, how religion is one of the biggest problems on Earth; religion needs to be abolished; I am passionate in my hatred of all religion.
I no longer believe in the existence of "free will".
Simply because the odds of gods existence are incalculable, I maintain that those odds can't be known any more precisely than 50/50. But if some sort of god does exist, it must be one 'evil' fuck..
Why did no one warn me about this shit?
Its all rather saddening.


The name of this site is quite funny, really!
I'm a little bit too sensitive and intelligent not to be hurt by the answers I believe I worked out.
I love philosophy?? Personally I fucking hate philosophy.
That is all, thankyou for reading my "rant of sadness".

I don't think this is sadess - it's anger.
If you can't live with your answers, find other ones. Or better still, ask different questions.
~ Carlos Ruiz Zafon

“One of the pitfalls of childhood is that one doesn't have to understand something to feel it. By the time the mind is able to comprehend what has happened, the wounds of the heart are already too deep.”

“But in good time you'll see that sometimes what matters isn't what one gives but what one gives up.”

A room without books ..is like a body without a soul.”

“I couldn't help thinking that if I, by pure chance, had found a whole universe in a single unknown book, buried in that endless necropolis, tens of thousands more would remain unexplored, forgotten forever. I felt myself surrounded by millions of abandoned pages, by worlds and souls without an owner sinking in an ocean of darkness, while the world that throbbed outside the library seemed to be losing its memory, day after day, unknowingly, feeling all the wiser the more it forgot.”
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Re: Human Depression

Postby captaincrunk » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:51 am

Jamazing wrote:
turtle wrote:What in the world are people talking about when they say a person is depressed?


I have been diagnosed with major depressive disorder, for me it is much different than others have expressed or discussed on this thread. I was diagnosed after my suicide attempt last year. The root of my problem is the circling thoughts I had no control over.

I would continually have a random thought start circling in my mind and I could not break the cycle. I could not get my mind off of the subject, I would run in over and over, looking at it in every possible way but stopping was not an option. It caused severe fatigue and high irritability.

I would run conversation in my head with other people before I had them. I would practice what I would say, then think how the person would respond. Then I would think of how I would respond in return. Eventually carrying out the entire conversation. When completed I would start over with them responding differently, running every possible scenario. This would lead to me often having a hostile or combative approach when I actually had the conversation with the person.

These question and answers you all have asked about how one feels when depressed never crossed my mind because my mind did not have time for such questions. My mind was constantly obsessing over what I should or shouldn't do, how I should or shouldn't react. There was no time for self-reflection. My only relief from these circling thoughts come from self-medication (drugs and alcohol).

This state of mental being created me to lose interest in most of my hobbies and activities. The things I loved and enjoyed became too complicated for me to continue doing. If I was passionate about something my mind would circle more and more about it, until it became a debilitating hinderance in my life. I wanted the thoughts to stop so badly I would quit the activity or hobby.

This desire to stop thinking drove me from the things I loved and the people I loved. I became very isolated and unattached. As a very outgoing and people pleasing child, this created a thought of not being who I was or wanted to be. This was the source of my low self-esteem and self-confidence. I was not the person I was or wanted to be anymore.

With my uncontrollable thoughts, I became very tired: mentally and physically. The lack of ability to shut it off caused many sleepless night. Over the years (15-20) my body became wore down. Getting out of bed and physical exercise became impossible. The circling thoughts drove me to the point I could not go on any longer. I could not see the things going on around me or even notice what was going on around me, it had debilitated me to the point of complete introversion.

I am now on anti-depressants and even though the thoughts try to keep circling, I now have the ability to stop them. I have also learned techniques to get them out when they need to be worked out. For me depression is not a condition because of outside influences or even a conscious thought about my own current situation, it comes from me not being able to control my own thinking.

I will never forget that first day, at the age of 38, I was able to look out my window and think of nothing but how beautiful that tree was on the mountainside. That peace of mind was priceless.

Well said playa. Very eloquent and it mirrors (in structure if not content) both my own experiences and that of many of my clients.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:48 pm

captaincrunk wrote:
Jamazing wrote:
turtle wrote:What in the world are people talking about when they say a person is depressed?


I have been diagnosed with major depressive disorder, for me it is much different than others have expressed or discussed on this thread. I was diagnosed after my suicide attempt last year. The root of my problem is the circling thoughts I had no control over.

I would continually have a random thought start circling in my mind and I could not break the cycle. I could not get my mind off of the subject, I would run in over and over, looking at it in every possible way but stopping was not an option. It caused severe fatigue and high irritability.

I would run conversation in my head with other people before I had them. I would practice what I would say, then think how the person would respond. Then I would think of how I would respond in return. Eventually carrying out the entire conversation. When completed I would start over with them responding differently, running every possible scenario. This would lead to me often having a hostile or combative approach when I actually had the conversation with the person.

These question and answers you all have asked about how one feels when depressed never crossed my mind because my mind did not have time for such questions. My mind was constantly obsessing over what I should or shouldn't do, how I should or shouldn't react. There was no time for self-reflection. My only relief from these circling thoughts come from self-medication (drugs and alcohol).

This state of mental being created me to lose interest in most of my hobbies and activities. The things I loved and enjoyed became too complicated for me to continue doing. If I was passionate about something my mind would circle more and more about it, until it became a debilitating hinderance in my life. I wanted the thoughts to stop so badly I would quit the activity or hobby.

This desire to stop thinking drove me from the things I loved and the people I loved. I became very isolated and unattached. As a very outgoing and people pleasing child, this created a thought of not being who I was or wanted to be. This was the source of my low self-esteem and self-confidence. I was not the person I was or wanted to be anymore.

With my uncontrollable thoughts, I became very tired: mentally and physically. The lack of ability to shut it off caused many sleepless night. Over the years (15-20) my body became wore down. Getting out of bed and physical exercise became impossible. The circling thoughts drove me to the point I could not go on any longer. I could not see the things going on around me or even notice what was going on around me, it had debilitated me to the point of complete introversion.

I am now on anti-depressants and even though the thoughts try to keep circling, I now have the ability to stop them. I have also learned techniques to get them out when they need to be worked out. For me depression is not a condition because of outside influences or even a conscious thought about my own current situation, it comes from me not being able to control my own thinking.

I will never forget that first day, at the age of 38, I was able to look out my window and think of nothing but how beautiful that tree was on the mountainside. That peace of mind was priceless.

Well said playa. Very eloquent and it mirrors (in structure if not content) both my own experiences and that of many of my clients.

It is wonderful when medicines do have the desired effect. And there are numberous such cases.
I have suffered from a similar problem as described above. What did the trick for me was a rigorous regime of meditative energy buildup and unreflective, "Dionysian" energy release.

The thought-loop problem is psychosomatic, as most "mental cases" - it has to do with a certain circuitry being dominant in the nervous and endoctrine systems. I'm not surprised that well placed chemicals can break this chain. But all such things can be healed by approaching the body as not something subject to a reality, but as something that creates a reality - i.e. itself.

The body fundamentally builds itself, this is the nature of - erm, nature. Man hasn't really accepted the implication of this, he sort of thinks that the body does its work without him being involved. The strange idea that the body, including the brain, is somehow alien to the experience that it sustains.
" The strong do what they have to do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Ierrellus » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:27 pm

I think the phramaceutical companies could come up with drugs that cause the initial state of well-being which is found in using marijuana, shrooms, alcohol, etc. I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, just wondering why a couple of beers can make me oblivious to all the negative events of my life that haunt me in PTSD ruminations and why the meds don't do as well.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby Moreno » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:15 am

Ierrellus wrote:I think the phramaceutical companies could come up with drugs that cause the initial state of well-being which is found in using marijuana, shrooms, alcohol, etc. I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, just wondering why a couple of beers can make me oblivious to all the negative events of my life that haunt me in PTSD ruminations and why the meds don't do as well.
a lot of people self-medicate and some of them for this very reason: they found something that works - though often they have problematic side effects. double though, so do pharmaceuticals. To semi-defend the pharmaceuticals, many of them you can work, drive, take care of kids, operate heavy machinery while taking. Beers rapidly become a problem with these things, to varying degrees.

But it is no coincidence that alcohol is legal. If it were not, the work world would start having huge problems. If people could not go out, or stay home, friday night and use alcohol to cut off the week's accumulated stress, worry, bad feelings, anger....

unions would grow stronger and bad things would happen at work.
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Re: Human Depression

Postby captaincrunk » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:47 am

Ierrellus wrote:I think the phramaceutical companies could come up with drugs that cause the initial state of well-being which is found in using marijuana, shrooms, alcohol, etc. I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, just wondering why a couple of beers can make me oblivious to all the negative events of my life that haunt me in PTSD ruminations and why the meds don't do as well.

Alcohol makes wholesale changes to your mental states. The idea of proper medicine is to leave you as much yourself as possible. May as well ask why your foot doesn't hurt when you're asleep.
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