Is there a name for this?

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Is there a name for this?

Postby Leitmotif » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:54 pm

Hi all. I'm looking for a term to describe something. Let's say somebody is an anxious, timid individual. He/she constructs a value system in which he/she regards courage in a negative light (perhaps as a label used like a pat on the head for slaves doing their masters' bidding, figuratively speaking and just as one of many examples). Now, this rationalization might not be baseless, but it's exaggerated and ignores anything that could be used to construct a positive conception of courage. What would you call such a psychological phenomenon. Is it ressentiment? Or is it merely born of ressentiment? Or something else?
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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby Some Guy in History » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:02 pm

Leitmotif wrote:Hi all. I'm looking for a term to describe something. Let's say somebody is an anxious, timid individual. He/she constructs a value system in which he/she regards courage in a negative light (perhaps as a label used like a pat on the head for slaves doing their masters' bidding, figuratively speaking and just as one of many examples). Now, this rationalization might not be baseless, but it's exaggerated and ignores anything that could be used to construct a positive conception of courage. What would you call such a psychological phenomenon. Is it ressentiment? Or is it merely born of ressentiment? Or something else?


Well, I think that society has painted the picture wrong. perhaps the person isn't anxious or timid at all and only feels as though they are, are told that what they feel are the symptom of those things, and that they are those things all the time because of those symptoms. You would grow thinking yourself to be cowardly when you're not and view courage to be a disease, you would have a completely different value system in terms of terms applied and perception, but I don't believe there is an actual word for that. It's not the first psychological phenomenon that I've seen that's been 'uncharted'.
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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby Leitmotif » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:54 pm

OK, but let's assume for the purposes of the hypothetical scenario that the person is anxious and timid so we can home in on the nature of the psychological self-deception. It's a bit like the thing Nietzsche said about the self-despiser nevertheless esteeming himself as a self-despiser, except here the timid person isn't so much esteeming himself/herself as something or other as holding in contempt the very concept of courageousness, and those who are duped by it.
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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed May 03, 2017 2:51 pm

Leitmotif wrote:Hi all. I'm looking for a term to describe something. Let's say somebody is an anxious, timid individual. He/she constructs a value system in which he/she regards courage in a negative light (perhaps as a label used like a pat on the head for slaves doing their masters' bidding, figuratively speaking and just as one of many examples). Now, this rationalization might not be baseless, but it's exaggerated and ignores anything that could be used to construct a positive conception of courage. What would you call such a psychological phenomenon. Is it ressentiment? Or is it merely born of ressentiment? Or something else?


I instantly thought of this little guy from Jonathan Livingston Seagull (Richard Bach)...

“Come along then.” said Jonathan. “Climb with me away from the ground, and we’ll begin.”
“You don’t understand My wing. I can’t move my wing.”
Maynard Gull, you have the freedom to be yourself, your true self, here and now, and nothing can stand in your way.It is the Law of the Great Gull, the Law that Is.”
“Are you saying I can fly?”
“I say you are free.”

What would you call such a psychological phenomenon.


I would call it being "STUCK".
Psychological inertia since you asked for a psychological phenomenon.

But simply STUCK works.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby James S Saint » Wed May 03, 2017 4:24 pm

Leitmotif wrote:Hi all. I'm looking for a term to describe something. Let's say somebody is an anxious, timid individual. He/she constructs a value system in which he/she regards courage in a negative light (perhaps as a label used like a pat on the head for slaves doing their masters' bidding, figuratively speaking and just as one of many examples).

A Hobbit.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby demoralized » Thu May 04, 2017 5:16 am

Leitmotif wrote:Hi all. I'm looking for a term to describe something. Let's say somebody is an anxious, timid individual. He/she constructs a value system in which he/she regards courage in a negative light (perhaps as a label used like a pat on the head for slaves doing their masters' bidding, figuratively speaking and just as one of many examples). Now, this rationalization might not be baseless, but it's exaggerated and ignores anything that could be used to construct a positive conception of courage. What would you call such a psychological phenomenon. Is it ressentiment? Or is it merely born of ressentiment? Or something else?


a commitment to a third option where given a false choice
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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby fuse » Thu May 04, 2017 6:47 am

Leitmotif wrote:Let's say somebody is an anxious, timid individual. He/she constructs a value system in which he/she regards courage in a negative light (perhaps as a label used like a pat on the head for slaves doing their masters' bidding, figuratively speaking and just as one of many examples). Now, this rationalization might not be baseless, but it's exaggerated and ignores anything that could be used to construct a positive conception of courage.

It seems like the kind of scenario one would come up with exactly for the purpose of illustrating ressentiment. So I think you do already have an apt name for it. I don't think there's any other word nearly so tailored for the example you gave. Broadly speaking, I would call it denial. What are you going for with this?
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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby demoralized » Sat May 06, 2017 1:12 am

I'd call this at obedience meets sex

at avoidance
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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby captaincrunk » Mon May 08, 2017 5:12 am

James S Saint wrote:
Leitmotif wrote:Hi all. I'm looking for a term to describe something. Let's say somebody is an anxious, timid individual. He/she constructs a value system in which he/she regards courage in a negative light (perhaps as a label used like a pat on the head for slaves doing their masters' bidding, figuratively speaking and just as one of many examples).

A Hobbit.

This is closer than it looks at first blush. They are the most fearless race in LOTR but consider themselves cowardly
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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby Jakob » Sat May 27, 2017 5:01 pm

Cowardice, hypocrisy, depravity... evil.
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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby Don Schneider » Sat May 27, 2017 7:16 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Leitmotif wrote:Hi all. I'm looking for a term to describe something. Let's say somebody is an anxious, timid individual. He/she constructs a value system in which he/she regards courage in a negative light (perhaps as a label used like a pat on the head for slaves doing their masters' bidding, figuratively speaking and just as one of many examples).


A Hobbit.


LOL and exactly right!

Seriously, I’m uncertain what the OP means exactly. Are we talking about denigrating people who gratuitously engage in dangerous activities, like skydiving. mountain climbing, etc., or any sort of courage such as running into a burning building to try to save a person? I can understand the former sentiment and wouldn’t necessarily characterize such a person as just being jealous. Regarding the latter sort of courage, then I would simply say the coward was jealous of courageous people. Therefore: “jealousy.” I could have respect for a cowardly person who admires courageous people as we are all not blessed with the same degree of intestinal fortitude, after all. One shouldn't denigrate one’s self for that. One should try to face danger as bravely as one can and not beat one's self up internally for lapses bred from his or her human nature over which one has limited or no control.
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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sat May 27, 2017 9:57 pm

How about self-deception? Telling yourself lies in order to protect yourself from your emotional reactions to reality.
I got a philosophy degree, I'm not upset that I can't find work as a philosopher. It was my decision, and I knew that it wasn't a money making degree, so I get money elsewhere.
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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby Don Schneider » Sat May 27, 2017 10:24 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:How about self-deception? Telling yourself lies in order to protect yourself from your emotional reactions to reality.


Very astute perception!
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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby WendyDarling » Sun May 28, 2017 4:09 am

Everybody lies and the first person they do that to is themselves, no one is above self-deception.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby Some Guy in History » Tue May 30, 2017 6:39 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Everybody lies and the first person they do that to is themselves, no one is above self-deception.


want to bet?
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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby WendyDarling » Tue May 30, 2017 6:59 pm

No, I don't care to win. I don't need you to prove my point for it stands regardless.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby Some Guy in History » Tue May 30, 2017 7:04 pm

WendyDarling wrote:No, I don't care to win. I don't need you to prove my point for it stands regardless.


No it doesn't, and it's not about winning. It's about the fact that you carelessly tossed out, yet again, something that is not true and does not apply to everyone. Some are victims of others deceptions and thus not their own. Those ones would never self deceive, never would fall for it and always seek the truth of themselves and others. They would not idly sit back and accept even the deceptions of others.

But, I understand that you are limited your own perception and perspective and the lies of your people.
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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby WendyDarling » Tue May 30, 2017 7:13 pm

I'm relieved that you understand my shortcomings.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed May 31, 2017 7:45 pm

Leitmotif wrote:Hi all. I'm looking for a term to describe something. Let's say somebody is an anxious, timid individual. He/she constructs a value system in which he/she regards courage in a negative light (perhaps as a label used like a pat on the head for slaves doing their masters' bidding, figuratively speaking and just as one of many examples). Now, this rationalization might not be baseless, but it's exaggerated and ignores anything that could be used to construct a positive conception of courage. What would you call such a psychological phenomenon. Is it ressentiment? Or is it merely born of ressentiment? Or something else?


Maybe one could call him a milksop.

But would one necessarily regard courage in a negative light so much as he/she might think of courage as something unattainable unless that is what you meant by a negative light? But I don't think they are the same.
One might think: "Why bother? It will never be me anyway." Not so much ressentiment but hopelessness and laziness. :-k
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


I learn as I write!
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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby Some Guy in History » Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:50 am

WendyDarling wrote:I'm relieved that you understand my shortcomings.


Well, when you understand what hems you up in a moment before bouncing back, you tend to understand the shortcomings of others a lot more easily. :wink:
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A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time. A man does not die of love or his liver or even of old age; he dies of being a man. Death is a distant rumor to the young. Life is eternal, and love is immortal, and death is only a horizon; and a horizon is nothing save the limit of our sight.
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Re: Is there a name for this?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:20 pm

Some Guy in History


Well, when you understand what hems you up in a moment before bouncing back, you tend to understand the shortcomings of others a lot more easily. :wink:


Does it only take a *moment* before the hemming and the bouncing back? I mean only a *moment* betwixt and between?

It is a process, wouldn't you say, but perhaps each time we cut the strings so to speak, it gets easier.

.
..you tend to understand the shortcomings of others a lot more easily. :wink


I agree with this. You have walked a mile in another's moccasins. Understanding.

I can't believe that you actually :wink: ed
Kudos to you. :evilfun:
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


I learn as I write!
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