Who should pay for the second Date?

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Who should pay for the second Date?

Postby Pax Vitae » Fri Jul 18, 2003 4:26 am

Who should pay for the second Date?

I’ve been talking about this with my friends, and it’s got quite heated. All the girls said it’s up to the man to pay. All the guys where saying what happened to equality? Man and Women are equal so should have equal expenses when it comes to dating. What do you think? Should the man have to pay for everything, or should the women now pay their fair share? If women want equality they’re going to have to pay for it… mmm… I mean the dinner!

Any thoughts?
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Postby Magius » Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:03 am

Hey Pax,
I like the topic. My answer will be relative to me in the way that I don't just pick up girls that I don't know. My dates have been with girls I was already friends with for some time. At that point, I have already ascertained what the girl is like, generally, around the topic of sharing. If the girl is stingy or doesn't like to share then I would never end up on a date with her. So, we are left with a girl (of relationship interest) who is not afraid to share which to me, says that I will pay for as many things as is viable. Don't take this the wrong way. I haven't ever really been hard up for cash, never had any debts (don't plan to either, not even mortgage). So if we are going to the theatre, getting coffee, renting a movie, or some recreational activity or sport - then I pay. I guess it has much to do with the sharing, cause I have never had a problem with money. My girlfriends have always been willing and able to pay for a fair share.

If I didn't have the money to spend, then I would be upfront with the girl and tell her that I didn't have the money to spend on going out or buying her things. It would be up to her to decide whether that would pose a problem or not.

I do believe women should be treated as the diamonds many of them are, but there are those who are only out to take advantage of that, and those I can sense a mile away. Be careful men, I have heard some serious horror stories...

I think it's good to treat a girlfriend with flowers, dinner, chocolate, or just something special once in a while. This rarily has to cost money. If the second date is making you judge your finances, you might want to consider some creative ideas for having a good time on a second date. I have found that the traditional go out to a movie or to dinner...kind of date...to be boring. Try something that will really open her up to being herself, to see the real her. Heck, take her fishing out on a lake. Tree climbing, strawberry picking - or - if there is one around your area, take her to a haunted house where you pay to be scared by actors, effects, and other such designed entertainment houses - we have some really good ones here in Toronto - they're quite the attraction. It'll get her holding on to you tighter, possibly even, then you hoped for.

Pax stated:
Who should pay for the second Date?


To answer your original question directly, I pay for the second date. Every girlfriend I have ever had, I paid for the second date. But what I have tried to exemplify throughout this post is that it all depends on how the two of you are together, what vibe you have about her, as well as what you know about her. Secondly, if the girl should offer to pay on the second date - whether you accept the offer or not - you know you got a good one on your hands (unless she is not being sincere).

Equality is an important aspect, a very important aspect of a relationship - but there is also custom, courtship, and to be honest - I like to pay. Try to find out whether she is for equality or not, if you know she is all about equality then you know that she won't turn into a money grabber, and she will be sensible about your finances - this usually entails being aware of whether she is good with HER OWN finances.

But I do know plenty of guys who keep bumping into the kind of women who just use them for a short...but good...though expensive time. Of which they are sick of doing and have sworn to not spend anymore money on women. Both extremes are wrong, in my opinion. Swallow the ego and be honest with the girl about your finances, in my experience women are great with money (no I don't mean spending it) - I mean managing it. I am honest with my girlfriend, as well as previous ones, about how much I make. They are just as honest with me.

One other thing is, that many guys get so excited about the high level of attractiveness.....ahem...I mean about the girl - that they go all out and buy everything for them except the kitchen sink(term of phrase). This is wrong men, very wrong. You not only make the girl feel uncomfortable, but do this long enough and you make them believe that this is normal and this is what is to be expected. Guess what you do for the rest of the men out there? What if your the one out there?

To me creativity always wins over the currency sum. My girlfriends have always been creative and done things for me that were very nice and took a good deal of time to make, while being very inexpensive or not costing them anything at all. Do the same and you may receive the same in return.

What's your take?
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Postby xplicit^ » Wed Jul 23, 2003 9:02 pm

Well, I would say there should be some equality. There is a stupid cliche that men always have to pay, but in my opinion, it should be equal. If you go out with a girl, one time you can pay for both and another time she can pay for you or just without any complications, everybody pays for him/herself.
I can't let men pay for me. It makes me feel uncomfortable.
If a man invites me to a dinner or just to have a drink, I used to pay for myself. I never let them pay for me. I always have a feeling of guiltiness if he pays for me :) It's odd, but I don't accept presents. Only from close friends though!
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Postby trix » Fri Jul 25, 2003 1:14 am

i'm with ^x. guys paying for everything all the time makes me uncomfortable.

p.s. who would have guessed that x was a chick? :o :wink: :lol:
"Innocence is indeed a glorious thing, but it very sad that it cannot well maintain itself, being easily led astray. For this reason, even wisdom...needs science, not so as to learn from it but to secure admission and permanence to its precepts."
-- "Foundation for the Metaphysics of Morals", Kant
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Postby Pax Vitae » Fri Jul 25, 2003 4:41 am

Magius I think you covered all the angles. Yet...

Magius wrote:I think it's good to treat a girlfriend with flowers, dinner, chocolate, or just something special once in a while.


I’ve found that when a woman is looking for a husband and when she’s just looking for some fun then different qualities are required of a man. I believe this to be a view that is easily reversed.

But it raised a question for me. I’m the type of person who would sit down and spend a large amount of time trying to make a special present, but using as little money as possible, (i.e. “Special” almost means financially cheap). I don’t want that to be taken wrongly, as I believe its more personal and has more of my personality imprinted into it. Plus, it’s also something I would enjoy doing for that person. While if what she really wanted was a €500 bracelet she’d get a goodbye kiss instead. It’s not so much that its money, but the fact it feels impersonal, even if I did get it engraved, it still seems like a cliché that lacks a personal originality. But there are guys who would sooner spend €500 on the bracelet then spending time making something special, as to them their time is more important. This has left me wondering is the person we choose the one that’s cheapest for us to maintain a relationship with? Or am I just being selfish with my resources? Should I give time and money equally, and if there’s too much of one and not enough of the other then this might be taken as a sign I don’t really “love” this person? I’m curious for your reply, and would really like to get the female perspective on this.

Thanks all for the feedback so far! Maybe I should change the title to ‘Dating 101’.
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Postby Magius » Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:40 pm

Pax Vitae,
thank you for such a thought provoking post. Aside: I don't know if it's just in my experience, but on the topic of personal and impersonal, your posts always come across as personal ones. As if I was talking to you in front of me. Since posts tend to be less personal then face to face interaction. It makes your posts appear more <i>real</i>, and makes me believe you are truly into your posts, with heart and soul. I guess if this message board was a version of the Turing Test, then I would say you were definitely human.

Onwards...Pax Vitae stated:
I’ve found that when a woman is looking for a husband and when she’s just looking for some fun then different qualities are required of a man. I believe this to be a view that is easily reversed.


Yes very true. Usually a women who wants to have fun looks for a young, energetic, cool, no brains kinda guy to go to parties with and have wild and crazy sex. But when she wants to marry, generally speaking, they look for a skinny guy in a business suit who doesn't have the word 'fun' in his vocabulary but has enough money in the bank to keep her drinking martini's and suntanning by the pool for the next thirty years. These are slight exaggerations ofcourse.

Pax Vitae stated:
I’m the type of person who would sit down and spend a large amount of time trying to make a special present, but using as little money as possible


I am the same way, sometimes. In fact, the reason I buy things is only because of my own presumtion of what is expected from me coming from my experience of what others do for their significant others. I know, I know, I shouldn't be comparing myself to others. If that's who you are Pax, I would only say to you: don't change. As an aside: for my 23rd birthday my parents asked me what I wanted, I answered: "Something that doesn't cost money, yet I would want it, and it requires a good deal of time to make." - let me tell you, they didn't like that answer. But they came to terms with it and my father made me a fiber-glass stick with a hole on each end, tied string through each end and one in the middle. The string went through the middle and through a washer, the idea was to get the washer from one side to the other. A brain teaser of sorts. My mother made me a booklet of famous quotes on beautifully printed scroll paper, binded. Those presents were worth more to me then any of the bought presents I have received from them before.

Couldn't have said it better myself:
While if what she really wanted was a €500 bracelet she’d get a goodbye kiss instead. It’s not so much that its money, but the fact it feels impersonal, even if I did get it engraved, it still seems like a cliché that lacks a personal originality.


You also couldn't be more correct on...
But there are guys who would sooner spend €500 on the bracelet then spending time making something special, as to them their time is more important.


It is these guys who promote and instill these uncaring values in women, as they teach women to expect this. This isn't the only reason some women are like this, but it is a contributing factor.

Pax stated:
This has left me wondering is the person we choose the one that’s cheapest for us to maintain a relationship with?


From my own and others experience, I would say no. Nor should it be a criteria for <i>serious</i> dating. If you are one of those guys (which I have the impression you aren't) who just uses people and wants only to get the girl in bed, then it is efficient for you to pick a girl who won't expect much currency to be thrown around.

Pax Vitae stated:
Should I give time and money equally, and if there’s too much of one and not enough of the other then this might be taken as a sign I don’t really “love” this person? I’m curious for your reply, and would really like to get the female perspective on this.


Although I am not female, I think you should be yourself and do whatever makes you happy. If you truly want to spend alot of money on a girl, then go ahead. It will either be worth it, or not. If not, then you have learned to be more careful next time. Money, in my opinion, should not be a factor. So no you shouldn't be expected to give time and money equally. Whatever sign is taken to be that you do or don't love the person shouldn't be a factor, or in the words of the Oracle in the Matrix "No one can tell you you're in love. You just know it. Through and through. Balls to bones." The only two principles I would follow, when dating and spending money are these: 1) Spend only what you feel you want to spend. 2) Spend only reasonable amounts compared to the amount of money you have saved up and the money you make. These two might conflict, as there may be a time when you really do want to buy something for your significant other, but can't really afford it. From another perspective, you may have the money to buy something for them but just really don't want to. This example is rather vague, to which I can only think to add that maybe there is something they want but you don't want to get it for them because it's bad for them or because of some other negative effect it might have on them.

What's your take?
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Postby silver » Fri Jul 25, 2003 9:39 pm

It is true that when a boyfriend spends money on me through dinners, trips, and the like, I feel touched, loved and cherished. I also feel a desire to return these feelings and thus make him feel loved and cherished. (Given that he doesn’t pay all the time for everything because, like trix and x said, that would make me uncomfortable). This is in no way to suggest that spending money on me is the only way (or even a necessary way) for him to make me feel important (obviously ). But yes, it is a way.
When it comes to gifts (bdays, anniversaries, any other special occasions or for no occasion at all) it’s all about significance. Let me explain, if my guy where to buy me something nice, relatively expensive but general like jewelry, sure I would like it, but I wouldn’t love it. Conversely, if he were to spend the time looking around and buy something with a personal significance, something that relates directly to our relationship; for example, the movie from our first date or the cd of the first song we danced to (there so many other examples and they dont have to be expensive) then I would love I.
I would love it because not only does it show he took the time to think back to our relationship and the times we've spend together but also that these times were meaningful to him.
But could these meaningful gifts be made not bought... absolutely! It doesn't matter if he makes me a pile of crap (that shouldnt be taken literally :wink: ) I would love it nonetheless because it's thoughtful and dear to both of us.

so to answer your question Pax Vitae:

Should I give time and money equally, and if there’s too much of one and not enough of the other then this might be taken as a sign I don’t really “love” this person


(And I can only answer for myself here) It shouldn't matter whether you make something or buy something so long as it is special.. because that right there shows that you love this person.
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Postby xplicit^ » Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:23 pm

Pax Vitae wrote: Should I give time and money equally, and if there’s too much of one and not enough of the other then this might be taken as a sign I don’t really “love” this person? I’m curious for your reply, and would really like to get the female perspective on this.



I don't think that buying the most expensive things will express that you love this person that much. The most valuable things are mostly the simple. I would prefer to get flowers which were gathered with love.. it would mean to me personally more that for instance some jewels.
But I can tell you that many females I know are mostly into material things. The more expensive the present is the more your boyfriend loves you. Raddish! ... There are still people who believe in true feelings and not in money!

Pax Vitae wrote:I’m the type of person who would sit down and spend a large amount of time trying to make a special present, but using as little money as possible


I think people lack imagination to do something like this and I think it's great that you have the ability to make a special present.
By the way ... your nickname is nice :) Peace of Life :P
although "pax, pacis" has many meanings :)

Trix:
:lol: who said I was a chick? ehr :P never mind! You're right, I am female!
"If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us." ~ H. Hesse
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Postby trix » Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:18 pm

Trix:
who said I was a chick? ehr never mind! You're right, I am female


i can tell!! :lol: ....and you kinda let it slip in one of the posts. *sigh* so much for female intuition :oops:

pax,
Should I give time and money equally, and if there’s too much of one and not enough of the other then this might be taken as a sign I don’t really “love” this person?


yes. well,....yes. you need to be as comfortable as you are with your money as you are with spending it. if you have $500 lying around, why not spend it on a bracelet for your girl? if you don't, of course you shouldn't go selling your home to finance such a gift. there is a middle ground. i don't see why you can't make a sentimental gift and spend a little money on a nice gift. however, assuming that you do spend money on a present, make it a gift that has some significance. i'm always touched when my boyfriend manages to remember that i like a particular necklace and he goes back to buy it for me.

but, by all means, do what is best for you! do what works...and all the best in the dating game.
"Innocence is indeed a glorious thing, but it very sad that it cannot well maintain itself, being easily led astray. For this reason, even wisdom...needs science, not so as to learn from it but to secure admission and permanence to its precepts."
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Postby Magius » Sun Sep 14, 2003 6:54 am

I probably should have started a new thread for this. But I think it is better to have less threads, that way people have an easier time finding out where that interesting conversation was that they had a week, month, or year ago. So here goes....

A question to all members or guests on this site:

To all the females out there, have any of you taken a guy out on a date financed by yourself? If so, what did you do, where did you go, and most importantly...how was the date?

What's your take?
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