The Native American Ten Commandments

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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby Impenitent » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:01 pm

SkyBear wrote:Some where I became lost in this thread, are you who disagree, want the Natives to represent the "Save the Planet" campaign.
Are you angry because you feel bad that the Planet has gone to crap and you want to apoligise to the Native.

I know the question seems sarcastic, but I am serious, because I still do not understand why anyone would have been offended by this slide show.

Or, was this a thread to increase post total?


my people have been exploited enough

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cogito ergo cogito
sum ergo sum...

Λογοκρισία και σιωπή

What's the difference between a liberal and Al Qaeda?
Oh, you don't know either?

"False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils, except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes....Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." (Thomas Jefferson)

"Stat rosa pristina nomine, nomina nuda tenemus" -Eco
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby Sky » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:30 pm

Your People?
Are you another one of those who recently discovered that you have some Native blood, and now you are offended when someone portrays "your people" in a good light, because you can feel like a Native activist.

Your anger does not do "your people" justice.

How well do you know "your people"?
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby Impenitent » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:18 pm

you assume far too much

-Imp
cogito ergo cogito
sum ergo sum...

Λογοκρισία και σιωπή

What's the difference between a liberal and Al Qaeda?
Oh, you don't know either?

"False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils, except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes....Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." (Thomas Jefferson)

"Stat rosa pristina nomine, nomina nuda tenemus" -Eco
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby Kriswest » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:26 pm

I figured you were talking about Mythological peoples. The Imp has been horribly maligned and exploited.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby Sky » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:42 pm

Imp.. You are assuming that I am assuming ; )
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby capslockf9 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:07 pm

Kriswest wrote:
capslockf9 wrote:
The enemy is taken as slaves in manny epochs. Never never nobody else just went and took people from other parts of the world for the purpose of useing them as slaves.

You are wrong. The Roman empire conquered lands including as far North as England and Sweden. Slaves were sent back to Rome for "sporting events" and for sex. If some died along the way, oh well, there will be more that followed. The Moors went out of their way to conquer lands, they shipped slaves back to their home.
The Vikings transported slaves over distances. The Asians did this quite well too.

The slave merchants of The black slave trade bought their slaves from Africans that had captured their neighbors. It became profitable to conquer a tribe then sell the survivors to merchants. Of course that part is neglected because people want to manipulate guilt. Slaves have been transported throughout time. You get captured you are either ransomed or sold into slavery. The better that transportation became the further slaves were transported. All across the old countries ancient roads have slave bodies turned to dust along them. The American slave trade is just the youngest, not the rarest or most novel. I would not seek reperations for my ancestors, I see no reason why anyone else should. Whats done is done, learn morals and ethics from it and move on.

These slaves were men who were destined to die and women for sex or as servants.
Peoples brought back from those conquered lands are the enemy. The Vikings are plunderers and everybody is there enemy.
No my dear kitty,The most heinious cruelty of all actions upon our fellow man is the taking of people for the purpose of slavery. Some owners had sex with the slave but that is not the main purpose for the stealing of people. Many try to gloss over it by saying everybody did it but the whole out and out of takeing people for slave for that only purpose is performed in American history.
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby Kriswest » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:13 pm

That is a load of garbage. A slave is a conquered person that has the sole purpose of doing their master's bidding for, sex amusement or labor or what ever. A slave has no choice, if you are conquered you are the enemy. Those that were sold to merchants were conquered humans. Captured for the purpose of slavery to use as their master's saw fit. Slaves have been bought and sold by all people that have ever had slaves. African slaves went to countries other than just the US at that time so that part of your argument is wrong. Wherever there was a market for slaves that is where the merchants went with their cargo of humans. Slavery was legal in many countries. Romans, Vikings etc, they all boutght and sold slaves with outsiders and with their own people.

You think taking a person as a slave that has fought you in battle is honorable? Is a good thing compared to kidnapping at night or just plain old overwhelming a village? Please if you take another person by force you are making an enemy, they sure as heck are not going to be your friend. Since when did nonfighting women and children become dangerous enemies that needed to be enslaved? Glossing over is what you are doing. You wish to paint a scene that did not exist sweetums.
Do you think that a slave cares if you think their enslavement is an honorable action? They certainly do not. They certainly do not think Well at least my free life is over honorably.

Slavery is disgraceful no matter how it was done. Painting the US as the worst is just political propaganda designed to keep racial tension up in order to serve the few that make a profit off of racial bigotry. It blinds people so well that they make people feel guilty for something they had no hand in nor would ever consider doing. Bravo, you are a PR person for a farce.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby Sidhe » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:53 pm

I'm insulted the British were the worst for slavery, both for time span, time period in which it occurred, and sheer numbers. Stop trying to steal all our thunder capslock! :wink:

We bought slaves from Africa for the most part, from Africans who rounded them up from their native villages and took them to slave markets; the whole of humanity is to blame for it. There is really no one absolute villain, just a series of bad people willing to exploit others for profit, just be glad we got over it. Not that I hasten to add I blame Africans as much as Europeans and let's face it they surely were overdue an apology, given how such markets were created and exploited.

Factory work is a form of slavery. Ok I exaggerate but it sure felt like it. :D
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby Sky » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:18 pm

How did the Native American Ten commandments spark conversation on slavery.

We all learned about Slavery in the 3rd grade, We learned why it took place in High School.
Are we still talking about slavery?

Humans have evolved, non of us were slaves. Humans do things differently now. Now, they have riots and protest because they are angry about the past.

Or, they lash out on forums, on the behalf of their people.

But, I have finally figured out what a high post total means.

Perhaps someone could post the Ten Commandments of Moses, it will be interesting to see where it will lead.
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby Sidhe » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:26 pm

SkyBear wrote:How did the Native American Ten commandments spark conversation on slavery.


I'm with you on that? how indeed?

But, I have finally figured out what a high post total means.


Nothing. Well done Grasshopper.

Perhaps someone could post the Ten Commandments of Moses, it will be interesting to see where it will lead.


Hopefully someone wont complain about them destroying their Jewish heritage by misappropriating their Levitic laws, but who can say? If any race has a reason to complain about humans and their silly justifications for persecution it would be the Jews. :)

I think you'd have a reason to complain about the lack of real discussion or merit if this wasn't in mundane babble. The clue is in the name I think.
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby Kriswest » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:30 pm

I thought those big ten belonged to more than just Moses?,, You mean no one else has had to follow them? What a rip off , someone really wanted to control the future in a bad way. I protest any further use of the 10 commandments since they are Moses's, let him or any that are named Moses follow them.(Wheeew, thank goodness Moses is a male name)


Yea, what Sidhe said; We were only following our elders. 8) :-"
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby Sidhe » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:41 pm

Kriswest wrote:I thought those big ten belonged to more than just Moses?,, You mean no one else has had to follow them? What a rip off , someone really wanted to control the future in a bad way. I protest any further use of the 10 commandments since they are Moses's, let him or any that are named Moses follow them.(Wheeew, thank goodness Moses is a male name)


Nah you're right, it's the other 200 or so laws Christians or others don't have to follow or ever did. The old wearing two threads, eating unclean meat, cutting off part of your schmuck, stoning people to death for saying "that halibut was good enough for Jehova" and so on.
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby Liteninbolt » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:08 am

It just goes to show controversy can be found anywhere.
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby Kriswest » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:45 pm

Anyone wearing a thong is following that rule of two threads, I wash my meat, you never know wear its been, at least I have learned to not use soap and hot water. Jehova never chose the best so that may have been justified. I don't have a schmuck to cut, well unless you count my husband's as belonging to me,, I think he might be upset a tad if I cut his.

200 laws? That is far too many to follow,, lordy we are just hairless apes, shouldn't we have started off with a couple and work our way up? No wonder we fight and screw up, someone put the bulls in the china shop with that issue.

Liten, I object, you can't prove that. I dare you to prove that without googling.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby Liteninbolt » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:58 pm

Kriswest wrote:Liten, I object, you can't prove that. I dare you to prove that without googling.

I suppose Yahoo is out of the question too? :D
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby Sky » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:25 pm

kriswest, You do not give humans enough credit, we are doomed.
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby Kriswest » Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:18 pm

No no, I Yahoo here and there myself, yahooing is fine :D

Humans as we are may well be doomed. Although as such a diverse species and adaptable species, some part of us will survive and thrive. We have humans with little to no technology to humans that can only survive with technology. We have vegans to carnivors. Intelligent to just plain dumb. Tall, short, fat, skinny, dark, light, we adapt, we change, some will survive what this world throws at them , with the exception of the planet freezing solid or exploding.
We humans will adapt not as a whole but, as part, and that is fine and natural.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby thezeus18 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:31 pm

Impenitent wrote:iron eyes cody had no indian blood

http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/ironeyes.asp

bunch of fucking environmentalist propagandist liars

-Imp


I know, that's why I posted it. It's cultural appropriation, the idea that the entire history and belief systems of 550 or however many different nations can be cut down to a handful of gimmicks then worn as a hat.
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby Sidhe » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:56 pm

Kriswest wrote:Anyone wearing a thong is following that rule of two threads, I wash my meat, you never know wear its been, at least I have learned to not use soap and hot water. Jehova never chose the best so that may have been justified. I don't have a schmuck to cut, well unless you count my husband's as belonging to me,, I think he might be upset a tad if I cut his.

200 laws? That is far too many to follow,, lordy we are just hairless apes, shouldn't we have started off with a couple and work our way up? No wonder we fight and screw up, someone put the bulls in the china shop with that issue.

Liten, I object, you can't prove that. I dare you to prove that without googling.


It's a good job they don't apply then If you want confirmation try Corinthians or Romans and or the Gospels: I could do it without google as I have a Bible and I roughly know where the passages are, but frankly I'm way too lazy. Or better still go straight to the source and ask a Rabbi. The ten commandments are eternal but Gentiles are free from dressing up as men and hurling rocks at blasphemers.
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby Kriswest » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:48 pm

Well its a good thing that I married a gentileman :lol:
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby helptheherd » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:14 pm

Liteninbolt wrote:Sorry if the post offended Imp. It was not my intention to do so. If you care to delete it, please do.


humbug!
that's ridiculous- this is a place for people to express and discuss not express and be shunned. everyone's opinion is just as important as another

people that cant take things that they do not agree with should not be moderators in my opinion being that they obviously can not agree with everyone therefore making their moderation biased. i listen to atheist talk all day cursing the "great spirit" as the video says but i do not have the power to silence them simply because i do not agree- neither should someone else have the power to silence others its ridiculous and immature as well as overbearing. Goodness gracious

(no offense intended)
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby Liteninbolt » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:11 am

helptheherd wrote:
Liteninbolt wrote:Sorry if the post offended Imp. It was not my intention to do so. If you care to delete it, please do.


humbug!
that's ridiculous- this is a place for people to express and discuss not express and be shunned. everyone's opinion is just as important as another

people that cant take things that they do not agree with should not be moderators in my opinion being that they obviously can not agree with everyone therefore making their moderation biased. i listen to atheist talk all day cursing the "great spirit" as the video says but i do not have the power to silence them simply because i do not agree- neither should someone else have the power to silence others its ridiculous and immature as well as overbearing. Goodness gracious

(no offense intended)

Helptheherd, there is one thing to remember, opinions come from different perspectives. From what I gleaned from Imp's response is he feels the Native Americans were lied to and treated unfairly by some non-indian people along with government intervention and laws. I'm sure this is the case in a lot of instances.

My OP was not intended to be offensive, yet it did anyway. Sometimes unless you walk in another's shoes you won't know how they feel. I still understand the full impact of the video upon somone of indian decent, but I have been made aware the negativity that is felt from their viewing it. For my part, I seen the beauty of the adages related in the slide presentation.
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Re: The Native American Ten Commandments

Postby helptheherd » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:01 am

yeah- i understand what you're saying liteninbolt :) sorry- but i still stand by what i said- its like me wanting to quiet atheists- i could easily take what they say as lies and offense- i completely understand the idea of perspectives (thats the whole point to begin with) just sharing my opinion though- nothing too serious i hope :) (and no offense intended)
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