Philosophy For Us Dummies

This is the place to shave off that long white beard and stop being philosophical; a forum for members to just talk like normal human beings.

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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Wed May 21, 2014 3:45 pm

No, you can't but if one continues to think about it and think about it, dwells on it to the point of rage and emplanting a seed within the brain, one may eventually end up in jail. :lol:[/quote]

of course arc...hello....that is what is always said and it may be wishful thinking...almost everyone has all kinds of bad thoughts...and we have been taught we are bad to think them or we are on the brink of being a bad person for thinking this stuff..[/quote]

What part of it is "wishful thinking"?
Thoughts are neutral until they are "really" put into gear. But we do have to take responsibility for them. Relishing negative thouights, indulging in them can eventually lead to perdition. Observing them afterwards and questioning their roots, can lead to wisdom.[/quote]

perdition I don't want to go there...please don't send me...some people are terrified by their own thoughts....that is a danger also because they get pushed down and may cause trouble...I don't believe in hell
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Thu May 22, 2014 12:44 pm

I am seeing a lot of TRASH and TROLLS out there ....I love philosophy but that stuff is trash....us dummies need to do better...
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri May 23, 2014 2:21 pm

turtle

perdition I don't want to go there...please don't send me...some people are terrified by their own thoughts....that is a danger also because they get pushed down and may cause trouble...I don't believe in hell


I don't recognize an after-life hell, either - only a during-life one. We normally cause our own perdition and if someone brings us to it, best for us to get away from that person.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Fri May 23, 2014 2:52 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:turtle

perdition I don't want to go there...please don't send me...some people are terrified by their own thoughts....that is a danger also because they get pushed down and may cause trouble...I don't believe in hell


I don't recognize an after-life hell, either - only a during-life one. We normally cause our own perdition and if someone brings us to it, best for us to get away from that person.


arc----how agnostic are you about afterlife heaven...
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri May 23, 2014 3:18 pm

turtle

arc----how agnostic are you about afterlife heaven...


If I don't recognize an after-life hell, I certainlydon't recognize an after-life heaven either. They both reside here within the brain. That's all that I intuit.
Were I not agnostic, I still wouldn't recognize a personal god. That Something, that Energy, would go far beyond in beauty than any judaic christian god every could - somehow for me...
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Fri May 23, 2014 3:36 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:turtle

arc----how agnostic are you about afterlife heaven...


If I don't recognize an after-life hell, I certainlydon't recognize an after-life heaven either. They both reside here within the brain. That's all that I intuit.
Were I not agnostic, I still wouldn't recognize a personal god. That Something, that Energy, would go far beyond in beauty than any judaic christian god every could - somehow for me...


very well put arc....for me also
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Lev Muishkin » Fri May 23, 2014 10:37 pm

Ierrellus wrote: If we become extinct, life becomes the more precious because it is all we have. I hope that is not the case.


If we become extinct then life is completely valueless, as there would be no one to judge. A thing that does not exist cannot be precious.

"Science is entirely Faith Based.... Obama is Muslim....Evil is the opposition to life (e-v-i-l <=> l-i-v-e ... and not by accident). Without evil there could be no life.", James S. Saint.
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Sat May 24, 2014 1:25 pm

turtle wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:turtle

arc----how agnostic are you about afterlife heaven...


If I don't recognize an after-life hell, I certainlydon't recognize an after-life heaven either. They both reside here within the brain. That's all that I intuit.
Were I not agnostic, I still wouldn't recognize a personal god. That Something, that Energy, would go far beyond in beauty than any judaic christian god every could - somehow for me...


very well put arc....for me also



what do you all think about this belief system
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Ierrellus » Sat May 24, 2014 1:52 pm

I'm with Arc about the nonexistence of a literal afterlife hell. Hell is here and now. My ex, now deceased, used to say hell is what's on Earth for people of another planet. I wouldn't go that far. I recognize that we are all born under a death sentence. Our pitiful lives deserve neither an afterlife heaven or hell. And, what if this life is all we have? I'd rather believe in universal salvation, that nothing living can be lost or forever estranged from the God of whom we are a part. Yes, I'm pantheistic.
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat May 24, 2014 2:23 pm

Lev Muishkin wrote:
Ierrellus wrote: If we become extinct, life becomes the more precious because it is all we have. I hope that is not the case.


If we become extinct then life is completely valueless, as there would be no one to judge. A thing that does not exist cannot be precious.


Perhaps valueless to us - but to what remains still useful.
A thing that does not exist has no consciusness nor can there be an experience.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat May 24, 2014 2:27 pm

turtle


If I don't recognize an after-life hell, I certainlydon't recognize an after-life heaven either. They both reside here within the brain. That's all that I intuit.

Were I not agnostic, I still wouldn't recognize a personal god. That Something, that Energy, would go far beyond in beauty than any judaic christian god every could - somehow for me...

very well put arc....for me also


what do you all think about this belief system


Turtle, for me, that's not a belief system - it's half knowledge half intuition. :lol:
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Sat May 24, 2014 2:31 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:turtle


If I don't recognize an after-life hell, I certainlydon't recognize an after-life heaven either. They both reside here within the brain. That's all that I intuit.

Were I not agnostic, I still wouldn't recognize a personal god. That Something, that Energy, would go far beyond in beauty than any judaic christian god every could - somehow for me...

very well put arc....for me also


what do you all think about this belief system


Turtle, for me, that's not a belief system - it's half knowledge half intuition. :lol:


interesting....not a belief system....
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat May 24, 2014 2:52 pm

turtle

So, what's the point you're trying to make here?
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Sat May 24, 2014 3:40 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:turtle

So, what's the point you're trying to make here?


I believe what you believe....my beliefs are a belief system....yours are not a belief system :)
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat May 24, 2014 4:50 pm

turtle,
I believe what you believe....my beliefs are a belief system....yours are not a belief system :)


:lol: But I don't believe turtle. I'm kind of a skeptic. I need proof.
I haven't taken that final step...i'm pretty much away from the edge of that leap.
I contemplate, wonder, sensate and experience and it's meaningful and valuable to me. That experience of qualia takes place within my mind and in my being but it isn't necessarily the bottom line...more like the first lines of the book. I don't call what i experience to be proven fact or knowledge...maybe must the entertaining of possibilities.

Is that belief?
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Sat May 24, 2014 5:50 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:turtle,
I believe what you believe....my beliefs are a belief system....yours are not a belief system :)


:lol: But I don't believe turtle. I'm kind of a skeptic. I need proof.
I haven't taken that final step...i'm pretty much away from the edge of that leap.
I contemplate, wonder, sensate and experience and it's meaningful and valuable to me. That experience of qualia takes place within my mind and in my being but it isn't necessarily the bottom line...more like the first lines of the book. I don't call what i experience to be proven fact or knowledge...maybe must the entertaining of possibilities.

Is that belief?


you got me...I am a dummy..i like what you are saying...
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat May 24, 2014 6:13 pm

turtle wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:turtle,
I believe what you believe....my beliefs are a belief system....yours are not a belief system :)


:lol: But I don't believe turtle. I'm kind of a skeptic. I need proof.
I haven't taken that final step...i'm pretty much away from the edge of that leap.
I contemplate, wonder, sensate and experience and it's meaningful and valuable to me. That experience of qualia takes place within my mind and in my being but it isn't necessarily the bottom line...more like the first lines of the book. I don't call what i experience to be proven fact or knowledge...maybe must the entertaining of possibilities.

Is that belief?


you got me...I am a dummy..i like what you are saying...


Sure, you're a dummy - like a fox, turtle. :lol:
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Tue May 27, 2014 1:48 pm

dummies-----------please look at.. the post-----[I believe in god]......
it may turn out to be a very good discussion...please join in
it may be talking about life and the universe and what it is all about...
without all the distorted god stuff....throw out all the bad theology
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Ierrellus » Tue May 27, 2014 2:46 pm

turtle wrote:dummies-----------please look at.. the post-----[I believe in god]......
it may turn out to be a very good discussion...please join in
it may be talking about life and the universe and what it is all about...
without all the distorted god stuff....throw out all the bad theology

Am on there. It seems to be another horse race between ideas and ideals.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Tue May 27, 2014 2:56 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
turtle wrote:dummies-----------please look at.. the post-----[I believe in god]......
it may turn out to be a very good discussion...please join in
it may be talking about life and the universe and what it is all about...
without all the distorted god stuff....throw out all the bad theology

Am on there. It seems to be another horse race between ideas and ideals.


you could look at that way but it doesn't have to be..
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Wed May 28, 2014 2:44 pm

us dummies-----------where is everybody
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Ierrellus » Thu May 29, 2014 2:23 pm

See Greatest I Am's thread on universalism in the religious forum. It's mostly what I believe.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby turtle » Thu May 29, 2014 2:50 pm

Ierrellus wrote:See Greatest I Am's thread on universalism in the religious forum. It's mostly what I believe.


very interesting ideas.....I like the kindness and caring of jesus...
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Ierrellus » Fri May 30, 2014 2:09 pm

Lev Muishkin wrote:
Ierrellus wrote: If we become extinct, life becomes the more precious because it is all we have. I hope that is not the case.


If we become extinct then life is completely valueless, as there would be no one to judge. A thing that does not exist cannot be precious.

Meant extinct after death--oblivion of the senses.
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Re: Philosophy For Us Dummies

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri May 30, 2014 2:45 pm

Lev Muishkin wrote:
Ierrellus wrote: If we become extinct, life becomes the more precious because it is all we have. I hope that is not the case.


If we become extinct then life is completely valueless, as there would be no one to judge. A thing that does not exist cannot be precious.


Not IF - WHEN ~ which means that in the HERE AND NOW, we choose or not to see life as precious and valuable.
I also know that at some point I will be no more. So for now, any discussion of a so-called after life, since we cannot know, is just a moot point.
All we have is the present moment.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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