The Philosophers

This is the place to shave off that long white beard and stop being philosophical; a forum for members to just talk like normal human beings.

Re: The Philosophers

Postby Jakob » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:45 pm

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PostSubject: Also on affluence and justice Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:51 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
What too is interesting is how technology and machines generally add more time into our lives by replacing work with "magic" (non-work), by making some dumb machine do it. Innovation was quite slow for a long time not only because of a natural exponential growth curve of progress but also because the affluent didn't have much need or really any need for technology and progress; they only required that a general level not exist which they themselves could not refashion into a system that kept themselves in the top. But the average person strives for more time and space, like all good Being, and thus even in the deep heart of the wealthy there are seeds of "curiosity" that sometimes, as in the case of men of genius, flower up. After all one eventually gets bored of all that time and space.

Men are trying to push up toward their estranged justice with thei technologies while the elite try to tighten control and keep themselves ahead of the curve. That's why things like the federal reserve exist, as circuits in the social machine acting as control mechanisms. Like a class of priests we have today's "experts" as media, scientific, political or pop culture figures (interesting the new Pope is trying to be all of these at once.. there is still a powerful lust in the Catholic soul) who act as gatekeepers to keep the rest out, capitalism being the genius device of realizing one doesn't need absolute control or even very much control at all, that it's more effective to cede control and keep a small bit out of view. It is important to note that if the elite or affluence classes are pushing for development and technology it is only as a reaction to development and technology that is somewhat out of their own hands. Everyone is fighting an unconscious arms race to be on top of the dung pile or at least as high up as possible. "One big anthill society" or however Valery put it.

Affluence doesn't really justify anything, except on some metaphysical level, which doesn't matter anyway except probably to the affluent themselves. Since communism in all its possible forms is a failure we will continue with consumer society becoming more "nice" over time, niceness that only exists to compel more forced compliance by undercutting possibility to state one's objections. Like if you make the jails nice enough maybe people will choose to live there.

Anyway, I predict the seemingly endless upward spike in technological innovation and scientific development is going to stop. If only because the upper will gain measures success against the lower through increased Christian subtleties and economic tricks, like in Rome we simply won't care anymore but to stare at the screens, and whatever geopolitical, environmental or economic situations unfold in the coming century to "cause" scientific progress to stall on a global scale will not in fact be causes at all, but only will be outward excuses and images that mask the deeper reality. It is almost impossible to imagine scientific progress stalling like that since research and application are like capital, they flow wherever there is least resistance and most profit, and because application especially represents nation-state and cultural power. So what does it require for it to arrest? "Peace".









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PostSubject: A Thought on The Consequences of Negativity as Science Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:24 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Science - Concience
Or in Spanish
Ciencia - Conciencia - ser - ecencia

When we find a reason to drop everything and chase the void, we must know that there is nothing waiting on the other side. We must put it there ourselves: the void will simply spit us back out with the drive that took us to it being the only thing left from it.

This is hard... Say a little girl in a satanic feast. She uses the ritual to free herself from the magic of life: what magic of life is waiting on the zenith to take with her back to life?

This is the building nature of humans. If we don't put something there for negativity to seize, it will seize whatever the fuck the random bestial drives that took us to the something wanting nothing want and thus dissipate inmediately into a disappointing return to the same somethings, the same consciousness that had already overcome this bestiality.

Negativity as method demands that nothing be thought to await. Magic requires a landing point: this is where the negative science comes in. It neglects its origins at the risk of negating whatever brand new effects it can and will effectively produce. This method has the ability to make an ever climbing ladder for consciousnes.

Consciousness negatively: what isn't there? All the things that are there have to be traced back to a point where they weren't there, and then something joyful can be produced from other negative inquiries that reveal things which can serve the drives of consciousness as discovered by negative regression. Parodites, meet Nietzsche.


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PostSubject: Re: A Thought on The Consequences of Negativity as Science Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:38 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
This is very fucking hard, forgive the chaotic style and blinding mistakes.

Negativity is a kind of absolute reversal of life, a benjamin button kind of trip. We see ourselves coming from death onto life, words and abstractions are more real the more abstract they are, and more abstract the more rooted in concrete life: concrete life in reverse, but forward at the same time.
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PostSubject: Re: A Thought on The Consequences of Negativity as Science Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:40 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
So, the more something sounds like life, the more it leads to death, and the more it sounds like death (say... Homer), the more it leads to life.
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PostSubject: Re: A Thought on The Consequences of Negativity as Science Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:28 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Full disclosure because this idea is as dangerous as it is powerful: it came to me while half awakening from a half sleep, fully formed and beautifully concrete, and dissolved as I hurried to get it down.
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PostSubject: Re: A Thought on The Consequences of Negativity as Science Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:48 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I remember being focused a lot on the insight that philosophy is death, this was about a year and a half ago. These realizations come to us in strange ways. Only by following the impossible track will we ever know that we have arrived at something certain, and then only in relation to that whole scope against which and precisely not in terms of which we acted. So, do that enough times over a wide enough scope of experiences and ideas, and one begins to build up a picture of what makes the most sense, if only because one has already therefore verified so much that doesn't make sense, then subjected all that negative verification to overlap of cross-analysis and seat that analysis firmly in the most sure world we know-- ourselves, our own experiences.

But as you say this leads through death. I don't know how I made it through and out the other side, well I do know but I'm not gong to say. But every man who wants truth must fortify himself "unconsciously" and allow himself o be held by those worlds as render health not possible, but needed. Then the task becomes either to continue in pure truth or to act out truth in the world. Maybe both are possible at the same time but even if so one must retain absolute, categorical priority over the other. And I don't really know too well on what basis one makes these choices, only that they are made.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man... flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: A Thought on The Consequences of Negativity as Science Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:58 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
In any case my insight here, if one can be discerned, is that there are numberless such threshholds. Negativity is in fact the only real basis of building.

Nietzsche was deeply negativistic, and it was thus that he produced such a life affirming thing as will to power. To come out of Nietzsche unscathed, one must dare one's self to be as negative in every respect of one's life: the whys and the wherefores, dug into like an oil rig in Texas. Or turn it back on him, as I see Sawelios and Parodites have done, which inevitably blows back into one's life. Perhaps more violently and effectively, but less personally. I see philosophy as a deeply personal thing, which comunal aim is only to allow others the same level of personal depth and allow for a higher level of discourse. So, I need them as much as they need me. Maybe this is the line you are talking about, the choice: to be deep or to dig depth. I don't see it as a choice, but as two sides of a comunal striving: the violent, creative side is the same thing as the personal side.








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PostSubject: Relativity and magnetism Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:37 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Electrons move in a copper wire. The electrons are negative charges, the wire is made up of positive charges (because the electrons in the wire are now free-floating within the wire as the "electrical current"). The electrons move at a very high velocity and so are subject to Relativity: from the point of view of the wire the electrons are length-contracted in the direction of their motion, which means that per unit of wire there is an increase in density of negative charges of the electrical current, due to length contraction of those elections resulting in more electrons per unit of wire. This creates a charge imbalance between the current (negative) and the wire (positive). Note that this also works if you look at the frame of reference of the electrons, which from their own vantage are stationary and the wire is moving: the wire is positively charged and so experiences length contraction from the perspective of the electrons, therefore the positive charges of the wire are compressed together creating a charge imbalance of more positive charges per unit of negative charges. It is this charge imbalance or differential that produces the electromagnetic effect, and is the same no matter if you take the frame of reference of the electrons or the wire.

So Relativity is the reason why a free flow of moving electrons in a wire creates an electromagnetic effect. The "magnetic" aspect is the electrostatic force between positive and negative particles: electrons in other nearby objects to the wire will be drawn to the net positive charge of the wire, since the electrons in other objects share a reference frame with the electrons in the wire (they are all moving at the same speed) and therefore experience the wire as net positively charged. Protons in other nearby objects also share a reference frame with the protons in the wire, therefore the protons in nearby objects experience the electrons in the wire as net negatively charged, and will attract to them. In any case, objects near the wire will attract to the wire.

Any objects made of protons and electrons will feel some attraction to the wire with electrons flowing in side it. But many objects seem to have no net attraction to the wire, whereas certain metals do. In most objects the molecules are stuck in place in such a way that the strength of the chemical bonds between molecules is stronger than the pull of the electrostatic attraction, especially since the molecules are not lined up and thus the electric field of each atom tends to cancel out the field of another atom. So the potential to be attracted to the wire doesnt extend beyond the scope of the individual atoms or molecules really. In metal, the molecules are all lined up in geometric rows, so the electrons are all in sync with each other. Being in sync in this way means they do not cancel out each other's charged directions, and can add up to larger potential scope of being drawn to the wire.

Electrons in the wire do not move at the speed of light, but the "charge" or force of the moving electrons does move at the speed of light. The example I found was of a long tube stuffed with golf balls: if you push a new golf ball in one end then a ball will pop out of the other end; the balls themselves are not moving at nearly the same speed as is the "force" that moves along the entire tube since the ball pops out the end at the same moment that you push the new ball in the other end (because the tube can only hold X number of balls). Electrons are the same way.

Moving electrons in the wire carry a physical force, so that when they are made to impact something they pass on some of that force in the form of a "voltage". Electronics work because the electron flows in copper wires are imparting physical force that can be used to do things.

Next I will work to connect electrostatic attraction and repulsion to self-valuing and to the pure logical view that philosophy must take in order to describe occurrences in physics. All physical phenomena must be described and understood first in terms of pure logic, which I think Value Ontology can help with. Also Parodites' Daemonic and the excess are logical understandings that can help construct a true explanation for physical events and laws. We are probably a ways away from such a complete explanation, but now we at least know the direction in which to progress toward it.








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PostSubject: Value: Intrinsic, Contingent, Both/Neither? Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:31 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
"Barbara Herrnstein Smith (born 1932) is an American literary critic and theorist, best known for her work Contingencies of Value: Alternative Perspectives for Critical Theory."-Wikipedia

What is the "nature" of value? Is value obvious? Where does value fit into the framework of logic? In other words, is it predictable?

"val·ue
ˈvalyo͞o/Submit
noun
plural noun: values
1.
the regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something.
"your support is of great value"
synonyms: worth, usefulness, advantage, benefit, gain, profit, good, help, merit, helpfulness, avail; More
2.
a person's principles or standards of behavior; one's judgment of what is important in life.
"they internalize their parents' rules and values"
synonyms: principles, ethics, moral code, morals, standards, code of behavior
"society's values are passed on to us as children"
verb
3rd person present: values
1.
estimate the monetary worth of (something).
"his estate was valued at $45,000"
synonyms: evaluate, assess, estimate, appraise, price, put/set a price on
"his estate was valued at $345,000"
2.
consider (someone or something) to be important or beneficial; have a high opinion of.
"she had come to value her privacy and independence"
synonyms: think highly of, have a high opinion of, hold in high regard, rate highly, esteem, set (great) store by, put stock in, appreciate, respect; More"-Google










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PostSubject: Sciences Failings: Is Philosophy Responsible? Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:03 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
1.) Science has become a numbers game, a game of probability, which kills possibilities.

2.) Science only considers potential within the confines of applied logic and the precedent of established scientific structures.

3.) Dynamism is unorthodox, therefore discounted by established, authoritarian sciences.
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PostSubject: Re: Sciences Failings: Is Philosophy Responsible? Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:54 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Science is a method more than anything, and methods are inclusive and exclusive, and become used for purposes beyond their mandate: for example scientific method is used to discount anything that scientific method hasn't bothered to apply itself to, or cannot apply itself to, thus becomes a principle of preemptive exemption and denial, a psychological function. But before science this principle was thriving under religion and doxa, so science has done a little good at pushing back those two.

Science has always resisted the real progress that appears within science; as you said, it basically sticks to what it already thinks it knows. Empirical method pays lip service to openness to possibilities but without philosophy it cannot see how its own program reproduces a certain kind of closed consciousness. But I would take science over religion most days.

Science is simply a servant to philosophy, which means to human being and to truth. Yet since philosophy has been slowly killing itself and making itself irrelevant in the world, science has come to think of itself as master to no one. And since science cannot operate without a master, it simply became mastered by capital-- as scientific rationality, technological reason, materialism, positivism, utilitarianism. Again, I would still take these over religion, but really they are just a more modern form of religion; a form that is at least slightly improving on its original substance, usually in spite of itself.

Maybe philosophy will assert itself and science will regain its soul. If it does, human being would be freed. But philosophy's task has become much larger: not simply one city-state, one culture or one nation anymore, but the whole earth is its proper object and context now. To this end it would cultivate many means into the depths of the earth, even non-philosophical means-- just as philosophy cultivated itself through and as its antithesis of religion, it is doing so again through and as science. All it may take is one man to seize the reigns once the ground has been sown. Philosophy will make the global scientific-political apparatus respond to a truth-status. This is inevitable, because time only moves in one direction.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man... flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Sciences Failings: Is Philosophy Responsible? Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:17 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Shared understanding is a precious commodity it seems. Thought my words had lost their English-ness and were being read as if spoken in tongues or something.

So we are agreed that philosophy has dropped the ball? And science must be checked and perhaps checkmated in which case a complete overhaul of its methodology. Logic as it stands now is aggregious, but trying to pinpoint the crux of the problem will be plaguesome. Prepare for loads of questions. Will you give me your best definition of logic formal and then its applied structures and let me pick it apart? To me, it's limiting in its nature.

Philosophy has to broaden it's horizons. If I can re-interpret and redefine logic, will that help?

"Maybe philosophy will assert itself and science will regain its soul. If it does, human being would be freed. But philosophy's task has become much larger: not simply one city-state, one culture or one nation anymore, but the whole earth is its proper object and context now. To this end it would cultivate many means into the depths of the earth, even non-philosophical means-- just as philosophy cultivated itself through and as its antithesis of religion, it is doing so again through and as science. All it may take is one man to seize the reigns once the ground has been sown. Philosophy will make the global scientific-political apparatus respond to a truth-status. This is inevitable, because time only moves in one direction."-C

Everything above has romanticism and sexism all over it. Science having a soul is news to me. What does "human being would be freed" mean? By all means start a thread for this undertaking over in Logic.
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PostSubject: Re: Sciences Failings: Is Philosophy Responsible? Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:00 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Human being is enslaved to its illusions and to its need for illusions, to what is sometimes called false consciousness, or what I usually call psychopathology. Religion, politics, science are all domains in which this pathology appears and exerts a regulating, necessary influence: it is important to grasp that every being must struggle up through falsity and untruth in order to reach beyond these and to attain to truth, clarity, sanity and reality, and only what we have born within ourselves and overcome within and as what we are is ever understood, to paraphrase something Parodites wrote once. Truth is a process, reality is a process, these are not givens.

For human being to be freed would mean for it to cast aside not only illusions/falsities but also the need for these. The entire history of human thought and culture is this gradual progress of overcoming illusions and the need for them. So philosophy needs to be asking in what sense does human being need illusions and falsities? This requires direct examination of illusions and falsities within science, religion, politics and economics, ethics, philosophy of mind, and just about anywhere pertinent to human consciousness and the world. A real philosophy jumps right in and starts doing the dirty work. This "dirty work" is what you're going to find on this site here.

Yes science has a soul, every established human discipline or methodology had a soul, its being an abstraction and extension of human being generally, and a condensation of and collapse around particular aspects of human being. We equate ourselves with our experiences, and the more so when these experiences are methodological and rooted in the phenomenology of being striving upward upon the existential climb of consciousness. The soul of science is tempered by other soul-elements not commonly associated to science, namely those relevant to philosophy or to shared existential-social subjectivity. The tendency for science to trend into materialism, reduction, positivism and technological rationality (think the Holocaust, for example, the scientific program of nationalism qua genocide and racism) has been well noted many times (see my signature quote also).






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PostSubject: Money as value-void Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:45 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Money does not exist. Money is ‘frozen’ value: values are created and exchanged for money, which money in turn is then used to exchange for more values.


Step 1: Values are created, then get transacted to someplace other than their creation-point. The value moves somewhere else, leaving a “value vacuum” behind it. That vacuum is filled in temporarily by money.

Step 2: That money that filled in the vacuum is then pushed out to cause new external values to flow into the vacuum, thus filling it again.


Values themselves are not money, nor is money value, or even valuable. Money is the stand-in for the transactable nature of values. Money is a placeholder, like the “0” in mathematics. “0” is not a number, but a placeholder for orders of magnitude. Money acts like this, although there is an imperfect relation between money as placeholder and the values-vacuums it attempts to temporarily fill; namely, the eventual values that come to fill the vacuum are usually not a perfect match for the values that left and originally caused the vacuum. Also, vacuums overlap, and change all the time, and are nebulous.

Marx and Adam Smith noticed that values are either used or exchanged (use value or exchange value). A value is “used” when it is exchanged for something one wants, a direct values transaction without the need for money; a value is exchanged when it is simply traded out for a value-vacuum into which some quantity of money comes. I would re-interpret Marx’s terms in so far as the only time values are truly “exchanged” is when it is for money, and any other time there is a value-to-value exchange this is technically use value going on.

Surplus value is what happens when values are put to use to create more value than was originally there. This happens traditionally in labor, where workers create values that pile up and eventually contribute to enough values-exchanges to where new additional values are acquired, and/or these created values are exported from the value-creating point in order to produce a huge value-vacuum into which money flows. Surplus value is also created with increases in efficiency, in technology, and in acquiring new resources, since these things either refine the value-making process or reach out and grab values-to-be that were laying around and not yet converted into true (human) value for use or exchange.

Bottom line: money does not exist. Only values exist. We think money exists only because we already know that values exist.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man... flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Money as value-void Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:04 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Your point is well taken but I'm still not going to give you my money.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Jakob » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:46 pm

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PostSubject: Re: On the Aging Process Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:08 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The aging process is something that has touched my curiosity but I have yet to do any good research.

I sometimes tell people that my goal of aging is immortality and that so far I'm doing pretty good.
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PostSubject: Re: On the Aging Process Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:55 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Nature doesn't care for how long we live, except that we can live to procreate and raise kids to a level where they can survive independently of us. Beyond that natural selection would probably select against generic configurations that prolongue age.

When our cells divide they lose some of the telomeres (repeated genetic code) that cap chromosomes at the ends. Generic replication has a hard time exactly duplicating chromosomes down to the very tips of them, so telomeres solve that problem; but eventually those telomeres are worn away and then cellular division begins to corrupt the genes themselves. There is an enzyme that helps repair telomeres though. Problem is, unlimited cellular division ("immortality") already exists, we call it cancer. I read that shortened telomeres and reduction in the telomere-repairing enzyme may have been a natural adaptation against the growth of tumors.

Age is genetic, indeed. And our lifestyle does affect this generic aging process.



___________
“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man... flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: On the Aging Process Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:04 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
That makes a lot of sense.

In Chinerse medicine, cancer is considered a normal condition, every organism has it to a degree, and the methods of circulation of chi (stimulating the organs and glands in their absorbing and secreting in the optimal order) is basically aimed to get rid of wherever this is happenuing excessively, and also integrating the excess 'vitality' into the system. Cancer is just cell-growth that cant be integrated in the self-valuing. It's a symptom of a highly potent society with very little 'Lacanian' depth (circulation-options, 'wildness') to its individuals. Reich solved most of it by simply organizing atoms via the division metals and non metals, creating an basic organo-energetic plasma field, very thin but working, that regulates the celldivision gently into proper organic paths.



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PostSubject: Re: On the Aging Process Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:59 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yeah and then the FDA destroyed his machines, I guess.



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“Be clever, Ariadne! ...
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man... flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: On the Aging Process Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:08 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
Yeah and then the FDA destroyed his machines, I guess.

I told you that government and religion are the root of all evil.
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PostSubject: Re: On the Aging Process Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:50 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes, confirming that it works. Had they rather done their jobs, cancer would not now be an epidemic, but just a symptom of our societies growth and need to regulate itself back into earth, matter, thus literally the periodic tables 'aesthics', the most powerful and
comprehensive chemical selfvaluing pattern.

But anyway the method survived, just out of the hands of the suffering population, ridiculed by them because the government had their universities tell exactly what the disease they 'cant cure' 'is' and that the only thing to do against it is destroy your immune system with radiation so the body can never again learn to properly recuperate by itself. A cunning plan, as they say. Trillons it has earned. Unfortunately the trillions seem to keep evaporating for some mysterious reason... haha.



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- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: On the Aging Process Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:07 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I knew a lady, haven't had contact with her in over a year, who had cancer and she got three diagnosis and each one gave her less that a year without chemo.

She did her own research, changed her life style and twelve years later (when I met her) she was cancer free.

Cancer is big business. Nobody wants to die. They will give all their money to the quacks just to get a couple more days of living in pain and suffering.
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PostSubject: Re: On the Aging Process Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:23 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Cancer cures tend to be suppressed. Same with juvenile diabetes cures. Same with the link between vaccines and autism (neurological damage). Joining profit motive and healthcare was an insane idea, we should probably stop doing that.



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PostSubject: Re: On the Aging Process Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:46 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes. In Amsterdam we have a huge hospital towering over the highway with red massive letters "Cancer Center".
Just like "Drug Enforcement Agency", which imports the drugs through Mexico, then distributes it, then puts young black dudes in jail if they take it from them, so that the prison owners can make a couple of hundred bucks daily off every inmate, which the tax payer pays for just like he pays for the Cancer-industry, which is the biggest industry on the planet.

In Holland, a whopping sixty percent of the budget goes into the medical fund, "Care", which has seen almost as many new diseases into being as people it has had pay for their own slow, painful and humiliating murder.

You have to be able to laugh at it, somehow... it is too much.



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PostSubject: Re: On the Aging Process Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:55 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus - yes, in every single case Ive seen or heard of of someone taking their treatment into their own hands (not of some wonder-doktor) the patient got rid of it within roughly half a year. As I said its not even considered a diseases in China.



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PostSubject: Re: On the Aging Process Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:59 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
In the US they call proven injuries caused when vaccines are being injected "table injuries", these are legally recognized and there is a multi-millions dollar fund that settles out of court compensation to families of children damaged in this way. Yet the medical industry is firm in the claim that vaccines are safe. Also you cannot sue a vaccine maker, legally they have total immunity. Same with banks that give crushing student loan debt, you can't discharge that debt in regular bankruptcy. But the bank itself can go through bankruptcy and discharge its own debts, of course.

Autism is just a subtler form of the same kind of neurological overload and damage from the vaccines, especially when they give so many of them at the same time. The basis of autism, like the basis of healthy consciousness, is "philosophical", but this philosophical soul emerges atop the biological strata. Autistic people have some defects in their neurobiological strata, so a properly philosophical soul, or "self", isn't able to form very well.



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PostSubject: Re: On the Aging Process Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:04 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Sisyphus - yes, in every single case Ive seen or heard of of someone taking their treatment into their own hands (not of some wonder-doktor) the patient got rid of it within roughly half a year. As I said its not even considered a diseases in China.

The fact this didn't work for Steve Jobs is probably evidence he was poisoned somehow.



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PostSubject: Re: On the Aging Process Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:11 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The good news is that this isnt sustainable at all, the banks will not be able to cash in on it with the next generation, which is, like all lifeforms do, adapting to its environment so as not to be subdued by it. This whole ship is sinking. But it wont go down without a fight - the next fifty years some corporations will disintegrate into violent militia like organizations that try to put government under pressure to 'pay them', I think.

Putting healthcare in a system of profit isnt necessarily an insane idea, as long as you dont involve the goverrnment in deciding what is allowed as a product and what is not. Government eliminates competition, thus eliminates for the full hundred percent all validity of the market principle. Even a monopoly attained at through brute force is perfectly fine when you compare it to government regulated markets. It just means that you brew up a poison, called it medicine, step up with a bag of cash to any random government asshole in a cheap enough suit and get all products that actually work legally banned.

Government is dying as it is killing all its constituency. Believing in cancer and in the virtue of big government is the same sort of disease, and it is definitely terminal.



Jobs case is obviously very dirty business to discuss, but was similar to one in the Dutch media twenty years back. He seems to have relied on "alternative medicine". That shit is absolute shit. What you need to rely on is what we simpleton westerners call "breath" - i.e. your being. And science and philosophical thought, of course, which brings us orgone and all that.

As soon as I, as a philosopher, looked at what orgone is made of, I understood the scientific principle, even if all writing on it was burned, and science doesnt even recognize this pattern as a principle. I saw what Reich discovered and how indeed it must have this particular effect.



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PostSubject: Re: On the Aging Process Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:19 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
The good news is that this isnt sustainable at all, the banks will not be able to cash in on it with the next generation, which is, like all lifeforms do, adapting to its environment so as not to be subdued by it. This whole ship is sinking. But it wont go down without a fight - the next fifty years some corporations will disintegrate into violent militia like organizations that try to put government under pressure to 'pay them', I think.

Yes there are already situations where a corporation can sue the government for lost profits due to laws the government enacts, such as environmental protection laws for example.

Quote :
Putting healthcare in a system of profit isnt necessarily an insane idea, as long as you dont involve the goverrnment in deciding what is allowed as a product and what is not. Government eliminates competition, thus eliminates for the full hundred percent all validity of the market principle. Even a monopoly attained at through brute force is perfectly fine when you compare it to government regulated markets. It just means that you brew up a poison, called it medicine, step up with a bag of cash to any random government asshole in a cheap enough suit and get all products that actually work legally banned.

Government is dying as it is killing all its constituency. Believing in cancer and in the virtue of big government is the same sort of disease, and it is definitely terminal.

I do not think government is inherently bad, nor do I think corporations and private enterprise are inherently bad. Neither is inherently good either. These two polarities are just a daemonic construct, a duality in the socio-psychic-existential fabric of the human world.

Without some kind of governmental system enforcing a legal equal playing field, free enterprise turns into mafia war, in which censorship and repression of truth and of what really works (real medicines, for instance) is just as easy as it is within fascist corrupt governments. Government can and should do some regulating of markets, but only at the behest of serious studies and scientists of many types, open transparency of the process with public input, etc. Basically these government institutional bureaucracies need to have scientists running things at the top echelons of power, and structural openness to critical public oversight as to how decisions are made, what is the scientific reasoning backing something up, from where is funding coming, etc.

Quote :
Jobs case is obviously very dirty business to discuss, but was similar to one in the Dutch media twenty years back. He seems to have relied on "alternative medicine". That shit is absolute shit. What you need to rely on is what we simpleton westerners call "breath" - i.e. your being. And science and philosophical thought, of course, which brings us orgone and all that.

As soon as I, as a philosopher, looked at what orgone is made of, I understood the scientific principle, even if all writing on it was burned, and science doesnt even recognize this pattern as a principle. I saw what Reich discovered and how indeed it must have this particular effect.

Orgon is pretty cool. The fact that the FDA closed up Reich's work so tightly is proof of how seriously we should take orgon.



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You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man... flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: On the Aging Process Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:14 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
In contemplating the reason for my disagreement with that view on government, I suddenly realized the full extent of my perception of government, in historical and operational terms.

All government started as religion.
It just dawned on me. It will never be able to be anything else.

I disagree that we need government to tell us what is good or bad medicine - I believe only in private doctors of at least a decade of hands on experience, who conduct a thorough research on your body, and then privately, in perfect confidentiality, prescribe a custom treatment.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Jakob » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:47 pm

THE LAW OF INCREASING STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY








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PostSubject: To Be Axiomatized Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:30 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I propose that the Law Of Conservation Of Energy is false; that it is a local, limited law, that it applies to closed systems, which Being is not.

I propose the Law Of Increase Of Integrity. This non linear law holds that as time progresses, the integrity of the processes subject to it increases.

As structures have a limited integrity, they will all the time be dissolved to provide parts and elements to higher integrities. This is why we follow leaders, and why minerals form.

The conservation of energy is challenged, explicated, falsified and contextualized by the definition of a 'system' or 'world' or 'set' as a matter of becoming more subtle and involved in circuitries- perhaps requiring the creation of new energy.

Relativistically, The Law Of Conservation Of Energy Is Tautological.
Philosophically, Law means Necessary Perception.

Implied Challenges: The Big Bang and the Higgs Boson seem to me erroneous derivatives of a logically incomplete system.



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PostSubject: Re: To Be Axiomatized Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:38 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I will consider both as equally valid.
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PostSubject: Re: To Be Axiomatized Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:44 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
They do both appear simultaneously, and are thus indeed both valid.

Technically it is the one within the other, maintenance of energy (basic coherence of existentia) is dependent on integrity (this is fact, it is just that science did not yet have a term for this signifier) - and yet, integrity also requires an influx.

What is the influx made of? I say possibility.



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PostSubject: Re: To Be Axiomatized Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:04 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
They do both appear simultaneously, and are thus indeed both valid.

Technically it is the one within the other, maintenance of energy (basic coherence of existentia) is dependent on integrity (this is fact, it is just that science did not yet have a term for this signifier) - and yet, integrity also requires an influx.

What is the influx made of? I say possibility.

I would agree and you are consistent with the Taoist concept of "wu", that is, Mystery, or rather Potential.
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PostSubject: Re: To Be Axiomatized Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:09 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I am going to investigate that connection.
It has been clear to me from when I first opened up to the Void in a standing Zen meditation (offered by Wong Kiew Kit) that the phenomenon of potential has been well understood by the Chinese.



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PostSubject: Re: To Be Axiomatized Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:27 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
THE WILL TO POWER
notes by Friedrich Nietzsche


1063 (1887-1888)

The law of the conservation of energy demands eternal recurrence.

1064 (1885)

That a state of eguilibrium is never reached proves that it is not
possible. But in an indefinite space it would have to have been reached.
Likewise in a spherical space. The shape of space must be the cause of
eternal movement, and ultimately of all "imperfection."

That "force" and "rest," "remaining the same," contradict one another.



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PostSubject: Re: To Be Axiomatized Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:49 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
THE WILL TO POWER
notes by Friedrich Nietzsche


1063 (1887-1888)

The law of the conservation of energy demands eternal recurrence.

1064 (1885)

That a state of eguilibrium is never reached proves that it is not
possible. But in an indefinite space it would have to have been reached.
Likewise in a spherical space. The shape of space must be the cause of
eternal movement, and ultimately of all "imperfection."

That "force" and "rest," "remaining the same," contradict one another.

Elsewhere you mentioned that you hold to the understanding that the beginning of the universe is eternal (I paraphrased you, correct me if I am in error) and logically, I think, that would require the end to be eternal as well. "Conservation of Energy"

Many people speak of balance (equilibrium) between the manifest (yo) and mystery (wu). That is, between the physical world and the spiritual world.

I concluded a few years ago that balance can never be had because everything is constantly changing. Therefore I opted for the concept of seeking "Harmony" in our life.

Therefore, the "force" (energy of life), in my mind, is our personal "chi". Energy can be understood through dualistic thinking, that is, positive and negative, or, if you will, yang (action) and yin (rest).

Harmonizing is the process of adding yin when Yang is dominant, adding yang when yin is dominant. Harmonizing allows for the flow of energy along the path of least resistance. Too much yang and you blow a fuse, too much yin and nothing happens.

But "nothing happens" should not be viewed as a negative concept. It should be viewed as a state of rest.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Jakob » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:52 pm

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PostSubject: Spacetravel Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:56 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
....






... and there it goes... into the firmament



This could be a pretty good metaphor for self-valuing. It's in that moment of closeness, too-closeness, that one shudders in a grasping - then the objective world is back, darker and vaster than ever.



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PostSubject: Re: Spacetravel Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:25 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I still remember the exact moment of "leap of faith" when I first approached self-valuing. It required a non-derivative step, perhaps something anathema to most serious philosophers. I was lucky because I already had theorized the logic of such leaps in principle, thanks to help from Nietzschean thinking.

Character is what happens at the threshold.



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I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

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PostSubject: Re: Spacetravel Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:28 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Space travel is the next step in philosophy forming a world for itself, which is what "philosophy" really always meant anyway.

The world is, if nothing else, an apology of philosophy. Humanity is vindicated. Always has been and always will be.



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Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? ...
I am your labyrinth ...”. -N

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PostSubject: Re: Spacetravel Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:02 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes, character, that is precisely what happens.

Our common love of astrophysics and the outer reaches has been a deep, mostly unspoken layer underneath our collaboration - a shared taste, or a shared lack of fear -
and taste is surely the way in which nature overcome fear.


https://www.sciencenews.org/sites/defau ... a_free.jpg
Or: fear rules in the absence of taste, where taste makes fear into an instrument of beauty.




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PostSubject: Against Presumption Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:47 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
What bothers me most about non-astrologers, especially when they are astrophysicists, is that they refuse astrology purely on the ground of not wanting the world to be as badass as it is. They dont want their mind to be as puny as it stands in relation to the magnitude of order that is implied by astrology.

If one does not observe the geocentric relations of the orbits, then one misses vast geometrical clues as to the way the solar system came about. But through the primacy of valuing over mass, it has been made abundantly clear that relations between plants in orbit around a star can not be anything but entirely interrelated on all significant levels. Not just on a magnetic level but rather on the level of Quality itself.

The world is simply far too good for what goes for "life" or "consciousness" these days.



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PostSubject: Re: Against Presumption Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:54 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fuck yes.



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PostSubject: Re: Against Presumption Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:55 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Gravity is a lie. Whereas EM doesn't give one fuck about "mass" (electron = proton in EM terms, haha).



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PostSubject: Re: Against Presumption Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:55 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Do you think we can defy it? I have had that sense.

Some election facts:

Jupiter on Trumps Jupiter
Trumps progressed moon exactrly on midheaven
Trumps progressed mars conjunct progressed Jupiter

Kentucky was the first state to be called, it went for Trump obviously -
I figured - it must have some Jupiter link to Trump.
turns out, its natal sun is Gemini like Pence and Trumps sun
and it s Jupiter is indeed in Libra, where it is now, and where it is in Trumps chart.
Trump and Kentucky further also both have Neptune in Libra.
Neptune Libra, I call it the French aspect.

Odds of all this adding up without false notes are virtually zero. The progressed moon alone, it is in the essential place for career triumph, the Midheaven, the beginning of the Xth house of career. The progressed moon makes its way through this every 30 years. It passed Trumps Midheaven the past week. That is a one out of 1500 chance. It was the first thing I looked at.

Clintons progressed chart is equally accurate, but the progressed mopon has just passed her progressed Neptune, meaning deception and illusion, and her progressed Sun is conjunct progressed Lilith and Mercury - the powers of self, feminine secrets and the quick mind/theft/opinion/magic (Mercury) all conjunct. All personal. "She deserved it" said those close to her. She simply radiated a commanding entitlement. Nothing pointing to a lofty purpose, everything to a singular concentration of power focused in a veritable portal.

Prince died during a comparable once a lifetime triple conjunction of the progressed chart. In his case Sun Pallas Uranus, where Pallas and Uranus both count as lenses amounting in genius. Pallas especially lofty. Perhaps the loftiest of all bodies. Size doesnt seem to matter in the least. It is primarily a clockwork, an arrangement, something that fell into place as the ultimate consequence of possibility itself.



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- Thucydides


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PostSubject: Re: Against Presumption Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:13 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Some Trumps natal chart observations

Mars 28 Leo, ascendant 1 Virgo, in between them by an orb of 1 degree, Regulus. Since time immemorial up until Bill Gates natal chart this has been evident as a kingmaker star. Because the tropical zodiac shifts respectively to the sidereal one the star has moved into 1 Virgo recently, onto Trumps ascendant.

A Trump presidency is a culmination of potential stretching out across the prosperous 10th and 1tth houses, whereas a Clinton presidency would instantly have evaporated as a power. There was nothing for her behind the door of the election - apparently the fact that this meant nothing for us as well, did play a part. Democracy has finally been witnessed in action, suddenly unblinded by the approaching light of its own death.



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PostSubject: Re: Against Presumption Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:23 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Oh yeah all this testing of backbone happened, as astrologers predicted 30 years ago, as Pluto came opposed to the US birth sun for the first time in the nations history.

As it entered the sign of that opposition, Capricorn, Obama was elected and the financial crisis broke out. Capricorn is the sign pertaininhg to corporate business, Cancer, its opposite, to Home. VO and Before the Light came to be as Pluto crossed my own midheaven at 7 Capricorn.

Soon it will enter Aquarius. As it did in 1777.



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PostSubject: Re: Against Presumption Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:26 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Gravity is subtle local derivative of the sort of value transaction constants offered as the motions of the planets with respect to one another with respect to their star with respect to its galactic center, with respect to what lies beyond into the vast ordering fractal Omega.

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PostSubject: Re: Against Presumption Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:50 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote,


Quote :
The world is simply far too good for what goes for "life" or "consciousness" these days.

Define "these days", FC.


All things considered, the way I look at it- it IS life/Life and consciousness, human consciousness, which has sought, explored, discovered and brought into knowable existence "the world" which you consider to be too good for it.

Don't throw the baby out with what you "perceive" to be the bathwater.




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Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."


"If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped."

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PostSubject: Re: Against Presumption Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:34 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Arcturus Descending wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote,


Quote :
The world is simply far too good for what goes for "life" or "consciousness" these days.

Define "these days", FC.


All things considered, the way I look at it- it IS life/Life and consciousness, human consciousness, which has sought, explored, discovered and brought into knowable existence "the world" which you consider to be too good for it.

Don't throw the baby out with what you "perceive" to be the bathwater.


Arc, "these days" are the days in which there are many people who vote for Clinton over Trump. All of these people are horrible, horrible monsters, or horribly ignorant fools, happy to be used for evil. Such monstrosity did not bring about the world. Creative spirit does not try to get a monstrous genocidal evil into power.

There are so many more monstrosities these miscreants and nonentities are the cause of - this is what I mean.

Astrology requires absolute will to take responsibility for ones own world. It is only ever rejected for one reason: it forces one to take a look at oneself. It reveals that in fact none are created equal, and that there are great differences in quality of life, which are guaranteed from birth.





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PostSubject: science of the object Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:39 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
All objects are transferences of laws upon one another.

Their consistency is not their own, but that of these laws, and the fundamental law of being which governs the interaction of laws, which is self-valuing logic; all laws require and serve self-valuing, but all except the law of laws itself are of a particular application and a limited range.

Gravity can be overcome in all sorts of ways by transferring it onto other laws, such as pressure and velocity.


Something Id like to posit as a claim to be challenged:
Gold is the result of all known laws in fully extended execution upon one another.



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PostSubject: Re: science of the object Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:17 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I don't refer to them as laws very often but rather use the term "processes of nature". (That's universal nature, not just nature on this planet.)

Everything is a result of something else, isn't it? Including gold and diamonds.

A result of something else? Yes, if we accept the Big Bang theory. The beginning of this cycle we are aware of started in Singularity. Then there was hydrogen, then the force of gravity, then everything else from those two.
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PostSubject: Re: science of the object Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:46 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
I don't refer to them as laws very often but rather use the term "processes of nature". (That's universal nature, not just nature on this planet.)

Everything is a result of something else, isn't it? Including gold and diamonds.

A result of something else? Yes, if we accept the Big Bang theory. The beginning of this cycle we are aware of started in Singularity. Then there was hydrogen, then the force of gravity, then everything else from those two.

The big bang is not logically possible. "Singularity" is nonsense, utterly, it is a "scientific" term for the biblical god.

There is no one point from which "Time" emerged. Beginning and endings are parts of "Time".

Rather, being has always been there as possibility, and the hydrogen atom is the most perfect manifestation of that possibility. However, in line with post-Big Bang cosmology, the transition from mystical gibberish to astrophysics, I consider the hydrogen atom to be an end product, as well as a beginning. Star forming and dying and with that, birth of heavy elements, is a next phase. Gold is the end of that phase. And I would be willing to speculatively state, to make this interesting, gold represents the (symbolic) beginning of spiritual-political processes on Earth, So we have Possibility ==> Hydrogen ==> Gold ==> Human Nobility. And I believe philosophy has here attained this latest level of pure structural integrity, so this makes that into a new beginning point. Which is how I experience our work here, as the very basis for a new form of existence.

The new type will self-forge of the very best that humanity has ever managed to produce, and will acquire its consistency in that supreme quality.



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PostSubject: Re: science of the object Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:49 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
We are mostly I agreement here except for your non-acceptance of Singularity and Big Bang.

But I have no idea what gold has to do with it. Gold does not lead to live. Get more basic and mention algae.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Jakob » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:00 pm

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On Hope

The etymology of the word "hope" is unclear to me. Its Spanish counter-part, "esperanza," comes from "esperar," to wait, and "anza," that which is, as in "crianza " (breeding), "lanza" (lance, i.e. that which is throw), etc. It is the subjective angle, if you will, of waiting. Hope is about the future, about the very act of the distance between now and some sought.

Hope is what drives life, because hope is the act of fate unfolding. What has no fate, has no future, has no hope.

A wink to Darwinists: where does this principle fall within the hierarchy of natural selection?
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PostSubject: Re: On Hope Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:45 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hehehe. I can't sit here and allow that post go unresponded to.

You did enlighten me with the post though.

The saying: Don't hold your breath (waiting for something wished for to happen).

Likewise: Don't rely on hope (waiting for something wished for to happen).

Rather than sitting on one's ass hoping and praying for something wished for to happen, I think it much better to get up off one's ass and take action to cause whatever is wished for to become reality through good, honest, hard work. Then you have something you can say: "I did that."
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PostSubject: Re: On Hope Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:45 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hope is an instinctual gift that one must bestow on another. The 'wish' is for another to benefit from our care transcending our physical limitations thus becoming an improved shared fate. One who exercises hope benefits in generosity of spirit and many, many, more intangible ways.

There are Darwinists around here?
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PostSubject: Re: On Hope Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:12 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I rather see my investigation as a refinement of the term. Hope is often seen in this life-coachy way you say, but seen in the way I describe it rather paints a picture of a man looking at a microwave, or a great spinstress seeing all the pieces of her plan fall into place.

Try to think of it as a function of the inevitable discrepancy between eventuality and mise en place. This way of considering it rehabilitates the term, reclaiming it from the thus-no-less-formidable life coach industry.
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PostSubject: Re: On Hope Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:08 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Shouldn't one ascribe to be the refinement? Reclaiming what becomes objectified seems tawdry as far as endeavors go. Suppose it's another form of romantic pessimism; behold our reclamation industry.
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PostSubject: Re: On Hope Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:26 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Even as I see how other, more ephemereal endeavours of the different catharsis of the spirit can appear more gratifying, I am old-school Greek in that I have a fetish for the claims on words.

Hope you'll understand!
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PostSubject: Re: On Hope Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:44 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
Hope is an instinctual gift that one must bestow on another. The 'wish' is for another to benefit from our care transcending our physical limitations thus becoming an improved shared fate. One who exercises hope benefits in generosity of spirit and many, many, more intangible ways.

There are Darwinists around here?

I can't recall hope ever being an instinct. We want a change - an effect. We create the cause. Simple.

Compassion
Conservativism
Humility

Those are tangible attributes. Why the need for the intangible?
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PostSubject: Re: On Hope Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:51 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Pezer wrote:
I rather see my investigation as a refinement of the term. Hope is often seen in this life-coachy way you say, but seen in the way I describe it rather paints a picture of a man looking at a microwave, or a great spinstress seeing all the pieces of her plan fall into place.

Try to think of it as a function of the inevitable discrepancy between eventuality and mise en place. This way of considering it rehabilitates the term, reclaiming it from the thus-no-less-formidable life coach industry.

If a man pushes the time on the microwave to 2:22 it will take 2:22 before it stops no matter how hard he looks at it, no matter how much he hopes it will hurry up and get done.

If the spinstress is paying attention to what she is doing her work will be without flaw based on her abilities.

Results (effects) depend on causes, not hope.
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PostSubject: Re: On Hope Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:57 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Pezer wrote:
Even as I see how other, more ephemereal endeavours of the different catharsis of the spirit can appear more gratifying, I am old-school Greek in that I have a fetish for the claims on words.

Hope you'll understand!

Ah! The Greeks and their many mythologies. Even they had a hard time dealing with reality. They placed man above nature.


The words are all wasted if one had not grasped the concept that was being spoken to.

And once the concept has been grasped the words can be forgotten.
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PostSubject: Re: On Hope Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:55 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus


Quote :
I can't recall hope ever being an instinct. We want a change - an effect. We create the cause. Simple.


I don't think of hope as an instinct either. There was a time when I hoped for things. I think it's human. Then there came a time when I went in the opposite direction and almost felt that it was such a negative feeling, a drawback of sort, which could keep us from determining our own life, making our own decisions. The very act of hoping to me almost seemed to make me feel weak and like a silly human. I felt that prayer and hope had something in common - too much delusion, too much waiting around for something or someone else to make something happen.


But I do now feel that there is a positive side to hope or hoping. It's capable of giving someone the right kind of attitude, an optimistic one, which can allow a person to see "possibilities" and what can be achieved.
It's all about achieving the right play, the right balance, between hope which is fertile hope and hope which is unhealthy and stagnant.

What's the opposite of hope? Despair.
Again, I suppose what we really need is a healthy balance between hope and self-determination.

Hope is like being able to see that there just might be light at the end of the tunnel. Hope sees possibilities, not necessarily predictions.


Quote :
Why the need for the intangible?

Because without hope, life could become very bleak and dark. Without hope, those struggling with cancer would give up. Without hope, those wanting children might not have them. Pessimism, its polar opposite, dampens all areas of life. An optimistic attitude and mood can be self-healing sometimes.

I think that one could call "truth" intangible. Is there any need for that? Without the intangible, how mundane might philosophy be?
Why is God such an important concept in philosophy? Because the concept of a God is so intangible.

To wonder about things which are intangible enriches one's life. Sometimes one's dreams can be quite intangible. That's what makes them so important and interesting.
Our very Selves are quite intangible, don't you think? We search for answers and because we realize how difficult it is to find them, because so much is intangible, it only whets our appetites for more.


Perhaps we can say that hope is a kind of "unconscious" instinct - without it, could our species survive long? Without eventually giving up and going home.



Quote :
Results (effects) depend on causes, not hope.

Well, there are effects for each cause, some positive, some negative, so in a way what you're saying is true but I rather think that they, both the causes and the effects are more dependent on action/responses.


Someone's home is burning. It is not so much the fact that the home is burning that brings on the effect of the fire being put out. It is the firemen responding to that burning house and having the courage and struggling to put out the fire which actually becomes the effect.
Somewhere when all of that is happening, do you think that it's possible, along with all of their determination and hard work, that hope might enter into their hearts and minds - strong hope that they will be able to put out that fire and save the day?

I think that hope is a strong imperative in certain important life moments - it's the wings which give rise to determination and action.













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PostSubject: The 0th Dimension Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:09 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
A pretty simple axiom:

self-valuing is the 0th dimension.

i.e. the point, the center of any given system of axes.

it doesnt matter how many dimensions will be wrapped around it, it remains the center. Of whatever system, context, or world it is ... identified.



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PostSubject: Re: The 0th Dimension Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:17 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Well, I know that I am still the center of my universe.
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PostSubject: Re: The 0th Dimension Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:25 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
You couldn't have confirmed it more eloquently my friend.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Jakob » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:15 pm

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PostSubject: New idea about gravity Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
http://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/remarka ... -was-wrong

Damn this is interesting.

If I understand this correctly, this guy is attempting to derive gravity from quantum-level distributions of information and how "volume" really just means, at the fundamental level, a kind of surface-area which can be most basically described qua area or "3D area (volume)" as the plank length ^2 (to get the most basic unit of area) * the total number of informational bits or qbits (quantum bit of info, a little stabilization or polarization). This would actually seem to break down 3D into 2D, or rather just unite them together, because the planck length ^2 is the smallest possible physical area, and would have no real dimensionality to speak of in so far as it can build up into larger conglomerate structures as either 2D or 3D geometries, but ultimately either a 2D or 3D geometry can always be reduced down to the exact same model of little planck lengths ^2 as total number of qbits.

https://2img.net/h/s30.postimg.cc/3tkri ... _25_AM.png




Look at how he relates all these equations to each other, to finally reach a derivation of Newton's equation of gravity. Working backwards, force is related to mass * acceleration, and then this is related through temperature to average energy in the equipartition theorem, which is then related back to the total number of qbits with regard to surface area over planck length ^2, to arrive at the holographic principle whereby a 2D geometry produces what appears as or acts like a volumed 3D space, again because of how a 3D space can be broken down into "1D" qbits that combine to create 2D geometries. This makes me think of the classic logical problem of how do you ever actually move from 1D to 2D, and from 2D to 3D, when you can't even imagine 1D without also imagining a 2D reference frame or context (try thinking about a 1D (pure line) that doesnt exist in 2D, it isnt possible), likewise how do you take a 2D plane and think about it without 3D (if you try to do so, the "plane" shrinks out of existence as its third dimension is impossibilized). Likewise, a mathematical point (something with no dimensions) is equally logically impossible to clearly conceive.

So instead of that mathematical abstraction, which is really just a language of approximation, we have planck lengths ^2 that form the basic unit of "space", the smallest unit of area into which a single qbit of information falls. This qbit already includes two aspects, length and width, namely a planck length on either side, and therefore is binary or polarized (because these two dimensions cannot be reduced to each other any further; or rather, they are "reduced" to each other only in so far as they are integrated upwardly into a single unit or value which includes both of them at once): now we can think of space itself as basically just an infinite stretch of these little planck lengths ^2 each of which can contain one binary qbit of information, and then that information relates to information in other little qbit-areas. This means that information stacks upward into larger configurations, these new larger ones are derived from the smaller out of which they are assembled, and therefore implicitly indicate these smaller ones; eventually you have informational geometries that prescribe a kind of "boundary" around themselves, where the boundary or edge is distinct from what is inside that area, and this is what creates a "surface area"; the surface area, once created, is therefore what gives rise holographically to the notion of volume or 3D space.

This also reminds me of an idea of gravity at Parodites wrote about a couple of years ago, where gravity is the result of quantum pressure whereby larger aggregate objects are pressurized toward those other objects to which they are statistically more likely to collide, because when such objects are larger they have less degrees of freedom relative to smaller such objects and therefore smaller objects tend to escape the quantum cloud while larger objects tend to pressurize toward the center of that cloud (if I am understanding his idea). This is basically describing the same thing as this physicist is describing, I think: "volume" is created holographically when qbit-level geometries "stack" or integrate-combine in sufficient number and complexity to produce derivative quantum objects that are capable of prescribing a boundary around themselves, namely a "surface area", and therefore for other objects of their own scale and beyond are therefore encountered as if they were "volumed" or 3D; for all such objects, they are always interacting with each other stochastically and as a result and within a given cloud of such objects (a quantum geometrical space) larger objects will end up being pressurized toward the center due to the fact these objects have less degrees of freedom relative to the smaller objects within the cloud, therefore larger objects will tend to collide with ("be attracted to") each other more than smaller objects will tend to collide with each other (but note that if you varied the number of smaller and/or larger objects enough, you could potentially reverse this situation, at least in theory). This statistical emergent effect of larger objects pressurizing toward the center of informational-geometric clouds is what we experience as the gravitational attraction of massed objects, and it must also be what holds matter together at the sub-atomic level (at the level before electromagnetic forces take over to molecularly bind things).



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Gravity sucks.








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PostSubject: Visible effects of orgone generators Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:22 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster


http://www.quebecorgone.com/image/data/ ... plants.jpg[/img]

http://www.quebecorgone.com/image/data/ ... garden.jpg[/img]

http://www.quebecorgone.com/image/data/ ... gonite.jpg[/img]

http://quebecorgone.com/docs/image/effe ... urvegs.jpg[/img]

http://quebecorgone.com/docs/image/effe ... zh4odg.jpg[/img]

http://www.quebecorgone.com/en/visible- ... -of-orgone[/img]







http://www.quebecorgone.com/en/visible- ... -of-orgone




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PostSubject: Re: Visible effects of orgone generators Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:01 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Wow. How do you recommend I learn how to make my own orgon generator?



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PostSubject: Re: Visible effects of orgone generators Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:53 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Here's a classical method of basic orgonite I think
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12LC8S8pAWA
The lady that makes my stuff is riduculously sophisticated and generous he orders all kinds of metals and minerals and crystals to enhance the things, they look like artworks beyond postmodernism

What my friend always uses is a (double) coil, which she turns out of copper wire.
She in turn is in awe of these people
http://www.ethericwarriors.com/gifting-compendium
this site has a forum I think, or at least links to it, where people who make this and gift it write about it - I havent been there but I have seen her write after a mission.
They're very serious and yet light hearted. You hav eto do with such overwhelming odds against you and such a great deal of mockery - or it is just that the orgone uplifts - or all of that is tied in.

Anyway it's remarakbly simple to make this stuff, but to get it right, to make it powerful and specific, this comes down to will and skill.



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PostSubject: Re: Visible effects of orgone generators Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:54 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Then you have the electrically powered ones, these are fucking insane. But you have to ask them, Ive never even built a circuit. To my shame...



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PostSubject: Re: Visible effects of orgone generators Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:56 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Oh, you dont have to believe the things these people believe.
Ive learned to not dismiss some of these things either -
but it is irrelevant.
The orgonite formula is atomic - a simple acknowledgement of the division between metals and non metals. And then the coil to set it in motion.



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PostSubject: Big Bangism Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:08 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The Big Bang is the greatest chunk of horseshit ever devised.
Atheists believe in it. They believe in an even more irrational notion than God.
God is simply not built of reason, you arrive at it through a more complete psychic process. It is a stage of mind, a humanity. And the poems about gods creating the world, are all about elements and logics, not about bearded old men.
The Big Bang however, this is fully and actively contrarational. I is onsensical to posit a beginning of time including a state before that, which was supposedly singular and yet gave birth to something that is not - so, you mean, god exists, we just call him "science" now, and destroy science, but dont mind because we're morons anyway not to be trusted with it... the belief of the Last Man: a seismic event in time space occurred, thus this was the god that died and we are now ashamed to believe in, because ae sin and do nothing but sin and waste out lives. Fuck Big Bangers -

The error: tto push causal logic through a state defined as negative of the causalitylogics you are working with, so as to arrive at the conclusion that everything was created in an instance out of a timeless all-being.



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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:15 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Of course whatever exists came into being gradually, as we very well know it does, as we can see how stars are formed. No doubt, atoms are formed in the same way - gradually the sheer possibility of existence assimilates by attraction, possibility enhancing possibility, collapsing into near-certainties on the atomic scale, remaining in the realm of pure potential on the electrical scale, the uncertainty principle is the veil that has possibility-as-such recede beyond the horizon of the urge for certainty that life, and consciousness is. "God" is merely the acknowledgement that there is an abyss where that veil is. Psychosis is merely that abyss.



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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:40 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes, the Big Bang is stupidity. The truth lies with those who imagine how the universe was created. I mean, really, God created the entire universe in six days and rested on the seventh. God created everything exactly as it is, the universe is static.

Only those who believe in religions know the truth. Science knows nothing.

But then, over one hundred creation myths exist and every one says that theirs is the only truth. No room for questions. Mythical facts are the Truth!
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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:56 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Yes, the Big Bang is stupidity. The truth lies with those who imagine how the universe was created. I mean, really, God created the entire universe in six days and rested on the seventh. God created everything exactly as it is, the universe is static.

Only those who believe in religions know the truth. Science knows nothing.

But then, over one hundred creation myths exist and every one says that theirs is the only truth. No room for questions. Mythical facts are the Truth!


Well now my friend, you are having a bit of a religious conversion late in age? Haha. But no, you are wrong.
I realize youre not much interested in physics, you dont need to respond to posts you dont understand. That is like the media responding to Trump. Youre making a bit of a show based on smallish beliefs, and you ignored my actual words.

Dont worry, it is no big deal but please, keep to the standards of the forum and address reality.



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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:55 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Sisyphus wrote:
Yes, the Big Bang is stupidity. The truth lies with those who imagine how the universe was created. I mean, really, God created the entire universe in six days and rested on the seventh. God created everything exactly as it is, the universe is static.

Only those who believe in religions know the truth. Science knows nothing.

But then, over one hundred creation myths exist and every one says that theirs is the only truth. No room for questions. Mythical facts are the Truth!


Well now my friend, you are having a bit of a religious conversion late in age? Haha. But no, you are wrong.
I realize youre not much interested in physics, you dont need to respond to posts you dont understand. That is like the media responding to Trump. Youre making a bit of a show based on smallish beliefs, and you ignored my actual words.

Dont worry, it is no big deal but please, keep to the standards of the forum and address reality.

But the problem is not your total knowledge of everything but rather the fact that I am not wrong.

Religious conversion I am having is it? You have lost it as you are suggesting something that doesn't exist. Of course, you do that all the time with your various gods so it's nothing new.

And BTW, when a discussion sinks to the level of attacking the individual instead of the topic one has already lost the argument.

You negated the theory of a Big Bang. Therefore you are saying that Einstein and Georges Lemaître are wrong any only you are correct. How vain!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:11 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Let it out.

Einstein is a god to you, an unquestionable authority who created your truth, which you are not allowed to think about critically.

This is precisely what I mean.

How arrogant I am to the religious, for thinking for myself...
haha.






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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:16 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I was so right, again....
I need only to mention a criticism of the Big Bang theory, and we have an uprising with passion and without argument.
It is sort of special to so easily provoke the normally levelheaded Sisyphus to a dogmatic rant by just stating a fact about logic.

This is why I called the OP "Big Bangism" - I know it is a religious anti-logical doctrine defended only by the passion of faith.




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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:18 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I am generally ok with the idea of the Big Bang, namely that it could have taken place, although I do not accept the ontological implication that this was "the beginning of reality". Reality has no beginning, that's what's makes it real-ity.

The observation that the universe around us appears to be expanding gives some evidence for the notion of Big Bang. I also like the idea that there were various stages of production of the various elements over time as the universe expanded and cooled. I think it's an interesting theory, and I don't yet have any reason to think the Big Bang never took place, but of course I'm not religious about it either.



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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:25 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Let it out.

Einstein is a god to you, an unquestionable authority who created your truth, which you are not allowed to think about critically.

This is precisely what I mean.

How arrogant I am to the religious, for thinking for myself...
haha.

Great. I'm glad we aren't taking our disagreements personal.

Actually, I know very little about Einstein or his work.

He did say that invoking god into his hypothesis of the Big Bang was his biggest blunder. And I agree with him.

And I don't agree with Hawking that the universe was create from nothing. It was created out of Singularity.

And believe me, I question what I do not understand but feel a need to understand or new information that is contradictory to my present understanding.

And yes, if we are living our life according to someone else's standards then all we are doing is living another life for that or those other people. The key to living is to self-actualize.


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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:30 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
I was so right, again....
I need only to mention a criticism of the Big Bang theory, and we have an uprising with passion and without argument.
It is sort of special to so easily provoke the normally levelheaded Sisyphus to a dogmatic rant by just stating a fact about logic.

This is why I called the OP "Big Bangism" - I know it is a religious anti-logical doctrine defended only by the passion of faith.

No, Fixed Cross, you are wrong again. Sorry.

Passion? I am without passion but I have a very healthy ego.

So your alternative to the Big Bang is magic. Yeah, very logical

So you are seeing yourself in what you are presenting me to be. Isn't that some type of psychological disorder?

At some point you might consider presenting a definition of the word "religion". I think you might have it confused with the term "belief system".
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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:33 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
And we should be careful connecting the Big Bang to atheism, because many religious people also believe the Big Bang. They think it was God's way of setting things in motion.



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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:38 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
I am generally ok with the idea of the Big Bang, namely that it could have taken place, although I do not accept the ontological implication that this was "the beginning of reality". Reality has no beginning, that's what's makes it real-ity.

The observation that the universe around us appears to be expanding gives some evidence for the notion of Big Bang. I also like the idea that there were various stages of production of the various elements over time as the universe expanded and cooled. I think it's an interesting theory, and I don't yet have any reason to think the Big Bang never took place, but of course I'm not religious about it either.

Well pointed out. And science still has many unanswered questions, some of which will never be answered.

But it is none-the-less the best theory available without the magic of creation by some god.

Everything that presently exists was at some point within the boundaries of Singularity. That's a bunch of stuff. How did all that stuff get into the boundaries of Singularity? Blame it on Black Holes.



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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:40 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
And we should be careful connecting the Big Bang to atheism, because many religious people also believe the Big Bang. They think it was God's way of setting things in motion.

Totally agree. The same is true regarding the fact of evolution.
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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:44 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I have met religious atheists for whom the Big Bang is a sort of creation myth, thus I very much get Fixed's point here. But I prefer to ignore such people and focus on the sane ones, of which admittedly there seem to be few.



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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:53 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
I have met religious atheists for whom the Big Bang is a sort of creation myth, thus I very much get Fixed's point here. But I prefer to ignore such people and focus on the sane ones, of which admittedly there seem to be few.

Yes, I too understand Fixed's point of view but I feel he has been using an incorrect word when he refers to the Big Bang Theory as a religion. (And more importantly, as Tao being the same thing as a god.)

Yes, there are many pissed off Atheists who are really pissed off at the Church but still hold to creation myths and actually still believe in the gods. And yes, these are confused people. Their anger is more powerful than is there logic in determining why they are pissed off.

I enjoy arguing with Fixed because I know he has a log of knowledge he can share with me.


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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:45 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Big Bangism really makes me laugh out loud now. It is constructed of ingenious stupidities.
For example - the singularity, in which all potential time space is enclosed, explodes (contradicting it being a singularity)... into space ( contradicting its having enclosed space time)....

Just, wow. My compliments to anyone who can believe it. True religion.



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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:49 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes it is making a more philosophical (logical) claim than what most people/scientists seem to understand. Obviously if something is expanding into something else, there existed the "other outside" into which that something is expanding. Defining the something as "reality" or "everything" is a contradiction to then claim this something is then "expanding".

I tend to think of it tectonically: there are two categories of ontological space, for this example anyway, with the first category being a maximally-collapsed potentiation grid with near-zero substance, and the second category being actual substance that occupies or sits atop the first categorical grid. I think of the first category as as close to a pure mathematical space as could possibly exist, wherein nothing is really "there" except the minimum energy distribution to sustain that grid-space; what we think of as energy, space and time, the quantum foam and everything scaled up from that foam (quarks, atoms etc.) is part of the second category.

Given this framework, we can then imagine that within an infinitely extended category one pure mathematical/maximally collapsed grid there existed a singularity-point in which was contained all the energy/substance that would eventually come to constitute our universe. For some reason that point existed as a point, approaching zero-dimensionality and containing all energy we see around us in the universe today... it would be interesting to speculate as to why this point existed at all, but for our present purposes we hypothesize its existence. So then this point suddenly reaches a critical threshold and can no longer remain point-like (perhaps because it had previously been collapsing further and further but hit a point where further collapse was impossible, as total energy caused a chain reaction that reversed the collapse into a sudden expansion). The expansion took over and fed on itself, exponentially increasing into the Big Bang.

This caused energy-substance to differentiate and occupy more volume per unit energy, leading to cooling and eventually enough space per unit energy to where sub-atomic particles could form out of the quantum foam.

So naturally there are a few questions necessitated by this hypothesis: 1) if the first category mathematical grid is infinite in all directions (and logically I think it must be) then there must also be more, even infinite, number of singularity-points in various stages of contraction or expansion? Yes I think that is the case. 2) When a universe reaches its end and (hypothetically) dissolves into the maximum expansion whereby even atoms are stretched apart and dissolve, what then happens? How does that situation reset back into another singularity-point?

I don't have a good theory on that second question.



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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:32 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Big Bangism really makes me laugh out loud now. It is constructed of ingenious stupidities.
For example - the singularity, in which all potential time space is enclosed, explodes (contradicting it being a singularity)... into space ( contradicting its having enclosed space time)....

Just, wow. My compliments to anyone who can believe it. True religion.

Einstein felt that way too until he was shown to have fucked up. It was his theory, you know. I just can't find it in my mind to think that you hold yourself more knowledgeable than Einstein and all the other astronomers who hold firmly to the theory.

So you hold to magic over scientific investigation. That's okay Fixed. There are billions of people who believe similar to you. It is your right to believe whatever you wish regarding the creation of the universe. But you have to ignore many scientific facts in order to do so.

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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:39 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Yes it is making a more philosophical (logical) claim than what most people/scientists seem to understand. Obviously if something is expanding into something else, there existed the "other outside" into which that something is expanding. Defining the something as "reality" or "everything" is a contradiction to then claim this something is then "expanding".

The theory of "Absolute Nothingness" speaks very well to this. This suggests that the universe is expanding into an area, at a rate faster than the speed of light, that was previously void. So it is not actually expanding into something else.

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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:47 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:

Given this framework, we can then imagine that within an infinitely extended category one pure mathematical/maximally collapsed grid there existed a singularity-point in which was contained all the energy/substance that would eventually come to constitute our universe. For some reason that point existed as a point, approaching zero-dimensionality and containing all energy we see around us in the universe today... it would be interesting to speculate as to why this point existed at all, but for our present purposes we hypothesize its existence. So then this point suddenly reaches a critical threshold and can no longer remain point-like (perhaps because it had previously been collapsing further and further but hit a point where further collapse was impossible, as total energy caused a chain reaction that reversed the collapse into a sudden expansion). The expansion took over and fed on itself, exponentially increasing into the Big Bang.

If you ask any type of physicist what Singularity is they will say something like, "We don't know."

But it is consistent with the concept of reversion and cycles. That is, Singularity - Big Bang - maximum potential of the expansion of the universe - the shrinking of the universe as a result of gravity - new Singularity - new universe.

However, the most accepted theory of the universe is that of a cold death. That is, expansion continues so that gravity no longer has an effect on anything in the universe.

I prefer the theory of reversion and cycles.
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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:52 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:


So naturally there are a few questions necessitated by this hypothesis: 1) if the first category mathematical grid is infinite in all directions (and logically I think it must be) then there must also be more, even infinite, number of singularity-points in various stages of contraction or expansion? Yes I think that is the case. 2) When a universe reaches its end and (hypothetically) dissolves into the maximum expansion whereby even atoms are stretched apart and dissolve, what then happens? How does that situation reset back into another singularity-point?

I don't have a good theory on that second question.

Yes, there are a few hypotheses suggesting multiple universes. I even have one: there are six more universes, they exist in different dimensions and they account for what science calls Dark Matter.

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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:02 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I just don't take that step, I don't grant the notion of singularity if it isn't also mono-tectonic.
I understand any quantum field however thin just as manifest as a star or an organism. From such a field, anything can be formed. Anything will be formed, simply because it is possible.
What we know is that there was a seismic event in the cosmos that basically shaped the way it is now. That could have been any collision of axes of gravity, such as black holes, which when they would 'spill their guts' might also cause some kind of big bang and paradigmatic, law-setting causation.
There are lots of things that may very well have other sides, that may be veils to other systems - we can perceive so little and the math of the superelliptical galaxies shows it.



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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:04 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I honestly think the Big Bang is purely the reinvention of God in secular terms - but with an even less rational ground.



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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:06 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
There can simply not be a The Whole.

Its a dense contradiction.
There are wholes, many different ones, that is the case.
But to posit a single whole is to contradict the notion of a whole.

It's hard to put in language, just imagine a whole that is not part of something else, and notice how the lines of logic and even cognition blur at the 'edge of the whole' which is obviously an illogical notion. The Whole must be infinite, because if it has borders, it borders on something else. But infinity didnt come out of the Big Bang.



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PostSubject: Re: Big Bangism Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:14 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
When I was 12 or so I figured oh cool, they scientifically proved that science can not explain the origin of what it explains. I took that for something very freedom loving.
Only later on I realized people actually tried to pretend that this singularity actually makes sense.

I piss on singularity. It's bullshit, it can take it.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby Jakob » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:02 pm



One hero talking about another.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby promethean75 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:49 pm

why would anyone who happened to be the first to bring into reality something that was the next logical step anyway, be revered as a genius? think about the situation; the idea of electric cars has been in the minds of human beings for a century or more... then somebody comes along who has the money to invest in such a technology, and is all of a sudden a genius and a hero. moreover, the guy who has the money is probably not the real brain behind the actual creation of the technology. the actual production of the idea would belong to those who specialize in the fields necessary to create it (engineers, mathematicians, mechanics, software designers, etc.)

so what is going on here with this peculiar kind of mythologizing? ah, it's the cult of the personality of capitalism; a gross exaggeration of the actual role and presence of the capitalist for the celebratory purposes of western culture fantasy. the idolization and emulation of the entrepreneurial spirit... which, when examined more closely, reveals nothing close to the wonderful depth and dynamism first thought to be representative of the glorious heroics of the noble capitalist.

some guy has a shit ton of money and hires a bunch of people to develop an electric car. now he's on the cover of popular mechanics and booked for seventeen talk show interviews. but what exactly are we celebrating here if not a myth, a transparent hoax concealing (denying credit to) the real source of the progress about to be made in mankind's next logical step in technology. who brings this idea into reality? the guy with the shit ton of money? no, but that's what the cult of the western persona of capitalism would have everyone believe. one does not need capitalism to make the logical next step (e.g., soviet union was the first in space)... but if these steps are made in a capitalistic system, everyone mistakenly believes such steps couldn't have been made elsewhere and/or otherwise.

none of this is for the purposes of dissing this guy musk. i'm sure he's a somewhat interesting fellow. all i wish to show is the irony surrounding the image that capitalism has engendered for itself as it promotes itself in the mythologies of modern western culture. like everything else shallow and transparent in the cult of celebrity culture, the same empty bluster is found in the reverence of the capitalist icons western society so much admires.

always remember this; a john galt is nothing without the proletariat... but the proletariat is everything with or without a john galt.

oh and i am aware of musk's credentials and education, so i'm not saying he's useless or can't be productive. i'm only saying if he is to receive credit for anything, it certainly would not be 'financing' a project that is fully organized and produced by other people who, because they happen to work for him, are thought to be totally dependent on the necessity of musk's 'genius' in order to be realized. this, of course, in nonsense.

please don't interpret this as 'hating on musk.' i am quite serious when i say i am unable to 'hate' anything here, because the context of the situation surrounding him and his popularity is so transparent it is incapable of warranting anything as serious as hate. there is simply the irony of the joke and the utter lack of substance in the reverence guys like this receive.

what the world admires about his guy... what they see when they look at him and his story, is not some genius or pioneer... but the dollar signs. like pavlonian dogs, western culture comes running whenever they hear the 'cha-ching', and drops to its knees in grotesque idol worship of a completely farcical image of prosperity.

you want musk to impress me... tell him to give 90% of his profits to his engineers, scientists, mechanics, software designers, and everyone else on his payroll who develop the ideas which are by no means original to him, and be happy they let him keep that 10%.

p.s. that most recent joint you did was by far the best i've heard. you weren't trying to sound cool in that one, and as a result, you sounded cool. cool how that works, eh?
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby barbarianhorde » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:19 pm

always remember this; a john galt is nothing without the proletariat... but the proletariat is everything with or without a john galt.

I will allow myself the slack to believe that you really believe this, but there could be very few statements in which I find less truth. Remember, I always go by experience. Never by theory. I fucking hate theory. It always fails to predict or describe the human.

The proletariat, in my experience, is just as much as a whiny parasitic bitch as is any old Owner.

I am not a Nietzschean without reason. My overwhelming experience from since I can remember, and I have a damn good memory, is that only the exception is worth the trouble of humanizing.

Most people, when you start to humanize them, i.e. idealize, think they are great cause they're human, they'll fucking suck your guts out.

That said theres no way I revere Musk or any industrialist. I didn't even read any Ayn Rand novels. I cant stand that conceptual idealist art from any direction. Cant read Tokstoy either. Give me Dostoyevski, thats real, that tells you what the proletariat is. Daughter-selling drunks whose stinking sweat is their best feature. Fuckups. Just as useless cunts as your run of the mill millionaire.

The people I have learned to trust are farmers. They can be considered both owners and workers, they escape the silly cosmopolitan Londonese dichotomy that Marx hallucinated.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby promethean75 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:51 pm

I will allow myself the slack to believe that you really believe this, but there could be very few statements in which I find less truth.


then you're not clear about the difference between the capitalist and proletarian class. the proletariat sells his labor as a commodity. he receives a wage for his labor. the capitalist buys the proletariat's labor, and then sells what that labor produced. the critical difference here is that the capitalist cannot profit without buying labor and selling commodities/services, because he doesn't sell his own labor. so, without the wage worker to offer his labor in exchange for a wage, and without the product of the wage worker's labor being sold, the capitalist would have no way to generate wealth. hence, the capitalist is nothing without the proletariat. like literally, this is not a figure of speech... he's as helpless as he is useless.

this is why i prefer the analogy of the host and parasite. it's quite fitting to describe the relationship between these two classes. the parasite cannot survive without the host, and the host is significantly weakened by the presence of the parasite.

The proletariat, in my experience, is just as much as a whiny parasitic bitch as is any old Owner.


i can't stand them either... at least nine out of ten of em. but, i understand why they're like that... and nearly every factor and/or cause responsible for such a condition is traceable to both democracy and capitalism/consumerism. it isn't just that most workers are aware that they're being exploited that causes them to have that shitty attitude... but several other things contribute to their overall character as well. lack of strong work ethic due to a generally easy and privileged lifestyle. the sense of entitlement their indirectly conditioned to feel because of all the media they consume; 'you're unique... be an individual... express yourself... get dat money... yada, yada, yada.' this instills in everyone the expectation that they should be able to be successful and wealthy without having to work for it. essentially, western democracy makes everyone believe they're super special and that 'work' is something only the lowly do, something everyone should avoid if they can help it. now out of this mess emerges only a couple types; a minority of career oriented people who have pride in their talents and productivity, and the stragglers... those who end up on the lower tier of the working class. these are the one's with the shitty attitude... and every bit of it is the result of the state's failing to exercise its authority in preventing these perverse forces from making such people happen.

when i see some white trash alcoholic piece of shit on the job, i don't blame him for becoming what he has. i blame the environment and those who have the power, but lack the incentive and ambition, to control that environment so that he doesn't become what he has.

but to call out this piece of shit and then say 'fuck the concept of the proletariat', is misinformed. this trash is your creation... you're the one who endorses the system that allows them to happen. of course you can despise such trash, but you can't complain about it and be taken seriously.

we've got to assume that radical changes in society in the direction of socialism could very well eliminate everything that is responsible for creating this image you, and most, have of the lower working classes. and we're pretty fucking sure that if things stay the way they are, we'll see plenty more of em.

but no. you can't point at such an abomination and say 'that's why socialism sucks'. that abomination has nothing to do with socialism and everything to do with western capitalist democracy.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby barbarianhorde » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:13 pm

Ah, but I caught you in a fallacy. One that does not necessarily have a name.

For if you can see what made the proletarian such a scumbag and use that reason as your argumentative substance, then you should also be able to identify what makes the owner one, to juxtapose it and see how the proletarian, when derived from his circumstances, is better than the capitalist, as derived from his circumstances.

Because until youve done so Im free to state that a proletarian is a scumbag simply because he is human, because look, an Ivy League breeze of a life in the absence of shitty circumstances doesn't un-scumbag people.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby barbarianhorde » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:03 pm

Im satisfied that I managed to make raps that sound cool to you, Zoot - that is a definite step. This is not an easy business. To win over a sharp critic is a victory.
Its not actually the case that I tried to sound cool before and now I didn't. Its more that I decided I have an ego and I need to stand somewhere, wherever. My previous raps were more beyond the ego, as I certainly didn't find it easy to understand myself as a rapper.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby barbarianhorde » Wed May 08, 2019 4:53 pm

barbarianhorde wrote:These discussions are zero value if they don't cause a change in power.

Like oh now I understand, free will does/does not exist in this way, so I can now go about this way, or that way, which is better for me.

Ironically to stop believing in free will gives people a lot of freedom. "oh its determined that I want to do this so Ill do it and not doubt the ethics of my decision."

Its a fad. But does it really change your life?

---

LESSON 1

Free Will is made out of discipline.


barbarianhorde wrote:Y? o.

Because, your honour, discipline incorporates the hardest facts that are already given, so it incorporates what is clearly, objectively deterministic, hardness, laws and so, and as it incorporates all that, it still is something of itself and that which that is is increasingly free to itself.

So Chaos in a system is due to the system functioning very powerfully. So that entities of irreducible behaviour take place inside of it.
Thats not given. The weakest forces are the most predictable.


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194947&p=2728176#p2728175. :text-link:

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Re: The Philosophers

Postby barbarianhorde » Sat May 18, 2019 9:04 am

Gotta have my last posts here.

Shit, Ive spent three years helping people understand why they shouldnt oppose the one who has ended all the US immorality abroad. But Americans here are SCUMBAGS, by and large, murderous thugs, filthy fucking maggots feasting on the deaths of children.

Leftists will all go mad in the end, I can't see this shit any other way, they have it coming, the savages made out of weakness.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby barbarianhorde » Sat May 18, 2019 9:09 am

The American empire is coming to end end, isn't it.

It has been overtaken by women, and it is becoming a living hell. People now want to escape it.

It turns out that Trump simply prevented our destruction and killed the mass murderers abroad, but can't save the USA. It has shown that it really doesn't have the female substance to merit saviour.

Who, abroad, would want to be with an American woman? Unheard of. By and large the ugliest, stupidest, most banally selfish women in the world.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby barbarianhorde » Sat May 18, 2019 9:11 am

Women who unflinchingly stab to death the breathing, feeling child in their womb and scoff at heroic saving of millions of children in he Middle East - there havent walked any eviler demons on the planet. Nazi wives were reasonably cool in comparison to the American left.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby barbarianhorde » Sat May 18, 2019 9:13 am

I give up on trying.

The closest friend I have here constantly turns his back on himself, and among the people I am cool to there are mostly supporters of the most murderous, sickest politicians that ever were.

Humanity... what a joke.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby barbarianhorde » Sat May 18, 2019 9:16 am

What kind of absolute MONSTER would it take to carry a child for 7 or 8 months and THEN decide to kill it?

Such people should never have existed. It is clear where it will all end for them.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby barbarianhorde » Sat May 18, 2019 9:25 am

I guess nature now needs there to be something terrible, for such creatures to learn to know themselves, to learn something about what they ve been doing to others.

Its always been the case that the American woman was the ugly, bloated miscreant of the world. That used to only go for the white ones, but it has become universal. Overprivileged and completely ignorant of human realities, somehow this does not make for aristocracy. It only makes for utterly unweddable trash.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby barbarianhorde » Sat May 18, 2019 9:42 am

It has been a war that splits families for some years now, Ive lived things Id been raised to think of as of the distant past, of the days of Christian civil wars, but my grandmother did see it coming.

People insisting that late stage abortions are a human right are an undeniable symptom of the end of their line. It is worse than suicide, it is the style of suicide that is there for people too scared to hurt themselves. The suicide of a decadent line,

The women who perform such late stage abortions are the abominations of the earth. The very vilest beings ever to appear.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby barbarianhorde » Sat May 18, 2019 9:51 am

Poor women.
They've been left unguided.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby barbarianhorde » Sat May 18, 2019 9:58 am

Given that my posts have gotten quite a few views I have hope that even through the idiots who respond have insisted on remaining murdering scumbags, there are those who have been struck in their hearts and changed their minds.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby barbarianhorde » Sat May 18, 2019 10:06 am

It is also clear why there is this huge obsession in leftist girls for using big dicks to fuck themselves in the throat, or why they love "having their sinuses cleaned" as one once put it to me afterwards. It is because they know very well that they talk too much. They know they're immoral whores who need to be shut up. But since they are illiterates and certainly not versed in logic, the dick is the only thing that will shut them up, and they love it for it. It is more than love, it is obsession.

Going down, down down...

fucking America.

Im gonna enjoy the rest of the goddamn show.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby barbarianhorde » Fri May 24, 2019 5:55 pm

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PostSubject: Slavery Slavery Icon_minitimeMon Nov 28, 2011 7:51 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Should individuals, races, sexes, classes and cultures choose to dominate, to submit, or to be free?

Civilization requires more than just intelligence, it requires domestication, slavery of people, places and things. Ants and bees domesticate their environment, in addition to specializing and collaborating, but they do so instinctively, we do so intelligently.

The Master/slave dialectic, in addition to interdependence (large tribes) is more efficient and has replaced the predator/prey, the hunter/hunted dialectic, in addition to independence (small tribes). A surplus of goods can now be extracted. How much surplus does one require? How much is healthy? Some choose to maximize consumption, some choose to minimize.

Slavery can manifest in subtler ways than mere brute force, when dealing with members of our own species e.g. capitalism, religion, etc.

How much should we domesticate people, places and things, and how much should we allow ourselves to be domesticated?

Civilization has advantages and disadvantages, there's been times when I've contemplated living more simply.

This is what I meant by the dilemma of civilization-

Intelligence + dexterity trumps all, or nearly all other qualities- speed, strength, endurance, agility, stamina (actually, humans have superior stamina as well).

This current, relative monopoly on intelligence has offset the balance, the equilibrium of nature. Like playing a game of rock paper scissors where rock can crush paper and scissors.

The ancients comprehended the supreme dilemma even better than we do today. The fall of Aryan Atlantis (assuming it happened) was more fresh in their minds. Where as Nietzsche tells the more left brain tale of master/slave morality, the ancients tell more right brain tales.

It is Prometheus' fire, Pandora's box and Eve's apple. With knowledge comes the power to destroy nature and create artifice, to convert more and more nature into artifice.

It has to do with our natural needs- physical, emotional and mental. Primitive man is closer to deprivation, Civilized man is closer to decadence. At the dawn of the French revolution, it was said 90% of the people died of starvation, and 10% of the people died of gluttony. Who was better off? I suppose I'd rather die of gluttony, but...

The advantage of civilization is- it gives 1 access to more resources. 1 is more able to satisfy their basic needs. The disadvantage is- it gives 1 access to more resources. 1 is more able to satisfy their basic needs.. and more, much, much more, way beyond what is required. In addition to the depletion and the destruction of that which we're dependent on, our environment, abundance and affluence can be detrimental to our own health.

Should the victors (rich, white men) share their spoils with the unfortunate, the vanquished, give back the surplus they've took from nature (after all, they don't need it, right?), or should they hoard it, and take even more, take as much as the earth can bare, increase their wealth and power at the expense of all who live under the sun.. and beyond?

Now, socialism is not necessarily slave morality (you could call it challenger morality), if the slaves take by force and unhypocritically, rather, it becomes slave morality when they attempt to convince the rich/powerful to share with them, or when they deceive (unless of course it is genuine) themselves into thinking they'd share if they were in their place.

The rich/powerful can also be hypocritical, and seek to justify their reign beyond will to power, beyond survival of the fittest, monarchs and capitalists have been known to do this.. or is it genuine?

Is slave morality a hoax, a scam? Or do rich men have nothing to lose by being charitable, and their souls to gain? Western civilization, 500 years of raping, pillaging, plundering and swindling, was it all for not? Should we have never set sail for America?

Europeans freed themselves from bondage, but then we proceeded to enslave the whole earth. Now the greens and liberals want to give it back. Who's right, who's wrong and.. why?

Perhaps the European, being the superior man, is more capable of love and hate, ferocity and tenderness. Nothing can stop the European, perhaps, except himself, or extraterrestrial intervention. High civilization may weaken, atrophy man, his body and his spirit. Perhaps atrophy, in addition to slave morality, is natures way of correcting herself, and reestablishing equilibrium. However, equilibrium may not be desirable. Is there a way to keep European man strong, healthy, in spite of circumstances that make him girlish and contented?

Should the white race specifically, or the human race in general, go on exploiting nature and other humans.. or should we power down our economy?
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PostSubject: Re: Slavery Slavery Icon_minitimeMon Nov 28, 2011 10:46 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Quote :
Should individuals, races, sexes, classes and cultures choose to dominate, to submit, or to be free?

Civilization requires more than just intelligence, it requires domestication, slavery of people, places and things. Ants and bees domesticate their environment, in addition to specializing and collaborating, but they do so instinctively, we do so intelligently.

The Master/slave dialectic, in addition to interdependence (large tribes) is more efficient and has replaced the predator/prey, the hunter/hunted dialectic, in addition to independence (small tribes). A surplus of goods can now be extracted. How much surplus does one require? How much is healthy? Some choose to maximize consumption, some choose to minimize.
Do you mean that the master/slave dialectic produces an offspring of surplus? Interesting. Is that Hegel?

Quote :
Slavery can manifest in subtler ways than mere brute force, when dealing with members of our own species e.g. capitalism, religion, etc.

How much should we domesticate people, places and things, and how much should we allow ourselves to be domesticated?

We are operating from a paradigm of thirst, we are consuming everything that is at hand. There is no metaphysical meaning -- no relation direct of the physiology to the psyche -- so there is no sense for what is real, and what is not. We need to establish it, "scientifically". which means artificially, through coercion of consciousness by means of the senses.

This urge is entirely compulsive and has nothing of calculation in it. The calculations following from it are therefore not at all strictly to our benefit, but simply of a great effect. It is this urge that we should cultivate, because we are already cultivating all the rest because of this urge.


Quote :
Civilization has advantages and disadvantages, there's been times when I've contemplated living more simply.
What would that entail?
It is also a challenge to live by more simple principles, but to allow oneself all the complexities of living.

Quote :
This is what I meant by the dilemma of civilization-

Intelligence + dexterity trumps all, or nearly all other qualities- speed, strength, endurance, agility, stamina (actually, humans have superior stamina as well).

This current, relative monopoly on intelligence has offset the balance, the equilibrium of nature. Like playing a game of rock paper scissors where rock can crush paper and scissors.

The ancients comprehended the supreme dilemma even better than we do today. The fall of Aryan Atlantis (assuming it happened) was more fresh in their minds. Where as Nietzsche tells the more left brain tale of master/slave morality, the ancients tell more right brain tales.

It is Prometheus' fire, Pandora's box and Eve's apple. With knowledge comes the power to destroy nature and create artifice, to convert more and more nature into artifice.
But the concept "nature" is an artifice.
There is no one nature, there are natures.
There is never a totality of it, there is always only an amount of interactions of them, forming "webs of meaning" what one may call value-systems, in which interaction is useful to the end of existing-as-such.

Quote :
It has to do with our natural needs- physical, emotional and mental. Primitive man is closer to deprivation, Civilized man is closer to decadence. At the dawn of the French revolution, it was said 90% of the people died of starvation, and 10% of the people died of gluttony. Who was better off? I suppose I'd rather die of gluttony, but...

The advantage of civilization is- it gives 1 access to more resources. 1 is more able to satisfy their basic needs. The disadvantage is- it gives 1 access to more resources. 1 is more able to satisfy their basic needs.. and more, much, much more, way beyond what is required. In addition to the depletion and the destruction of that which we're dependent on, our environment, abundance and affluence can be detrimental to our own health.

Should the victors (rich, white men) share their spoils with the unfortunate, the vanquished, give back the surplus they've took from nature (after all, they don't need it, right?), or should they hoard it, and take even more, take as much as the earth can bare, increase their wealth and power at the expense of all who live under the sun.. and beyond?
To a great extent western man has exhausted its (moral, energetic) resources and needs the east now, to find there a ground of meaning, to include the other in a more meaningful, fertile and productive discourse.

Given that Europe has been the cradle of much of what we now value as culture, what is the state of affairs at this point? By which valuing system is the European man still to be valued superior? Is this valuing system still operative? If so, can we define the standard value to it? Other question; Is European man still capable of valung himself as superior?

Quote :
Now, socialism is not necessarily slave morality (you could call it challenger morality), if the slaves take by force and unhypocritically, rather, it becomes slave morality when they attempt to convince the rich/powerful to share with them, or when they deceive (unless of course it is genuine) themselves into thinking they'd share if they were in their place.

The rich/powerful can also be hypocritical, and seek to justify their reign beyond will to power, beyond survival of the fittest, monarchs and capitalists have been known to do this.. or is it genuine?

Is slave morality a hoax, a scam? Or do rich men have nothing to lose by being charitable, and their souls to gain? Western civilization, 500 years of raping, pillaging, plundering and swindling, was it all for not? Should we have never set sail for America?
All active morality is a hoax, a trick played on the self, like belief in God. Socialism gave the poor the idea that they were not the downtrodden, but the mighty, the conquerers of history. This alone explains the power of the movement, the will to power, emerging from a stronger self-valuation. The key word was "historical necessity". This is what replaced God, and gave the simple man a road to necessity.

Quote :
Europeans freed themselves from bondage, but then we proceeded to enslave the whole earth. Now the greens and liberals want to give it back. Who's right, who's wrong and.. why?

Perhaps the European, being the superior man, is more capable of love and hate, ferocity and tenderness. Nothing can stop the European, perhaps, except himself, or extraterrestrial intervention. High civilization may weaken, atrophy man, his body and his spirit. Perhaps atrophy, in addition to slave morality, is natures way of correcting herself, and reestablishing equilibrium. However, equilibrium may not be desirable. Is there a way to keep European man strong, healthy, in spite of circumstances that make him girlish and contented?

Should the white race specifically, or the human race in general, go on exploiting nature and other humans.. or should we power down our economy?
If it is up to me, the Europeans turn their attention back to their regional geography and the values that spring forth from the real world there. Europe has never been a unity, except in competition and armed conflict. Its riches lie entirely in difference, diversity. The EU is a choke-hold. I think that there can never be unity of culture or economical trust when there is no unity of language.

Can Europe devise a different meta-structure to convey its meaning to itself as an entity? Can Europe effectively value itself, as America has done? I doubt it. There is too little understanding and sympathy back and forth, from Sweden tot Italy, from Spain to Germany - unless a great project of art is envisioned, a new classicism so to speak, an Great Style.
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Re: The Philosophers

Postby barbarianhorde » Fri May 24, 2019 5:57 pm

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PostSubject: Amerika Amerika Icon_minitimeThu Dec 01, 2011 6:09 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Semi rough draft of the first three sections. It needs some work, but I would like to see how others react to it. It should be noted that I employ the term "Amerika" to distinguish the culture of the United States (who brazenly don the title "American") from the continent, America. The allusion to the Kafka novel is intentional, as I felt Karl's tumultuous story quite applicable to the mise en scène.


Amerika: An Abstract on Pandemonium

I) Casino

When I reflect upon the origin of these “United States of America” (united only in the sense of their contiguity—and even then, Hawaii and Alaska are outsourced) I find that our forefathers, desperate to escape oppression, set sail for an expansive nature preserve, subsequently passing on disease to the indigenous people whilst dislodging them, razing the preserve, and erecting a meta-casino/amusement park on the ravaged land, providing these unfortunates with trinkets, uncomfortable vestments, shiny objects, and the word of God as recompense—thereby emulating the very beast from which they fled.

This meta-casino runs deep: one notes the designated establishments, but in actuality it is the entire way of life, the entire infrastructure which composes this massive conjunction between meta-casino and meta-amusement park. Indeed I am not the first to identify this analogy; Baudrillard writes: “Disneyland is presented as imaginary in order to make us believe that the rest is real, whereas all of Los Angeles and the America that surrounds it are no longer real, but belong to the hyperreal order and to the order of simulation. It is no longer a question of a false representation of reality (ideology) but of concealing the fact that the real is no longer real, and thus of saving the reality principle.”

Baudrillard, however, missed the mark by about 265 miles of arid desert road—Amerika skulks in that same vision of convoluted debauchery that played hostess to the Good Doctor’s fear and loathing in the third and fourth months of 1971; the quintessence of the United States, its pure, unadulterated essence is Las Vegas, Nevada—the true panegyric of Amerikan Life.

The more money one has, the more of a friend one is to the establishment—not only the casino, but the greater portion of this economy—and once your reserve runs dry, you are swiftly booted to the street. Notice how the stripper, upon learning she’s bled you dry, immediately abandons you, the illusion of sexual interaction being a simulation fueled by capital (and where has capitalism, where has the corporation not infiltrated?). They give you the illusion of possibility, that these women are actually attracted to you, that they are going to sleep with you—but they are not. There are those who see through the charade, but they are either too few and dissimulated as wacko conspiracy theorists (the true wackos—contrail theorists and the like—exist as a permanent ad hominem so that any theory not consented by the government appears entirely ludicrous) or they are those unfortunate golems in whose heads have been placed Thompson’s words, “No, no. Calm down. Learn to enjoy losing.”

It’s all a gamble, a rouse to play statistics, to perpetuate that Amerikan dream—chants of “Yes We Can!” resounding ad nauseam to rally the troops. Again one observes the United States reflected in the casino: the lovely waitresses not only serve drinks but actively affect the psychologies of the male ego; that perpetuated meme of winning big (“Make me rich. Make me very rich. Oh, you bastard!”) when the truth is advertised proudly on every banner: “What happens here, stays here.”—that penultimate social contract of collusion. The winners exist only to perpetuate the myth that anyone can win. This is the mise en scène of the United States: The Illusion of Potential.

II) Cinctures and Methods of Control

Foucalt, and subsequently Deleuze, saw this looming titanic ghoul on the horizon—the societies of control—only it is no longer looming; it is here. There is, ever present, a process of production, a facsimile of the quality-control conveyor belts in mass-production facilities. Everywhere, we erect Henry Ford’s assembly line, mass producing food, buildings and everything in between. The unique is taboo, “diversity is now our greatest fear.”

Look at the school: the students file into this closed structure—a mimesis of prison architecture down to the gates and door locks (but the locker rooms and showers provide no privacy)—where they are taught how to pass a standardized test. The exceptionally well conforming producers (of grades, of performing the task they are commanded to) are given advanced options to prepare for an alternate or augmented program, separated from the standard whereas the underachievers are selected for an entirely different special program or simply drop out—the rejects thrown away at the end of the work day. This remaining majority portion is then packaged and labeled, placed on the shelf and taught to advertise themselves (like the toys in a store with a revealed button circled and annotated: “push me!”) to colleges where they then receive their brand names after passing the sorting apparatus and the final quality control check point.

Let us not forget that pivotal method, the universal dissemination of desiring-production—advertising/marketing—that virulent, uninhibited exploitation of the “grass is always greener” paradox. Buy this coin commemorating the attacks on 9/11, a $100 value, yours for just $19.99. Is indolence becoming an obstacle for optimal production in your work place? Don’t get more sleep; drink a 5-hour Energy—with only 5 calories.

We see police psychologies in infinite variation between the honest Joe who patrols not to punish but to seek justice and the pugnacious individual-qua-bouncer—the hired muscle—with the ethos of a mercenary. But to counteract this, we have detective novels, CSI, Law & Order, etc.; the apotheosis necessary to enlist a wider demographic, a technique also employed by the military (give the kids toy guns, toy soldiers, have them play cops and robbers, G.I Joe, hook them young and sync that meme before their frontal lobes develop).

We apply universally the methods which predicate the irrigation system, the internal combustion engine—controlled failure. The faucet, the lawn sprinkler, the shower; these are all controlled leaks. So we see, once again, this system employed on individual economies. The Hallmark Holidays simulate cultural imperatives of quid pro quo, where two or more parties exchange gifts of purportedly equivalent value so that one fails to notice the shell game just played: both individuals’ capital returned to the grid whereas each individual is now holding an object of substantially insufficient value to compensate for their loss. Our flight attendants will refer you to your calendar to see the conveniently located exits for your capital. Enjoy your trip and thank you for choosing Thievery International.

Everywhere we see these multitudinous channels: the broadcast and its content determined by statistical demographics which in turn determine the demographics themselves; roads and their breaks/flows of circuitry programmed by traffic engineers; the schools you can attend and the degress you can get from them—these things are all hierarchical channel structures, not the tree but the river delta.

And what of the addiction the U.S. thrives on? Tobacco, alcohol, violence, adrenaline, caffeine, sex, gambling, video games, hypochondria, television, illicit drugs, the deal; these are all perpetuated, marketed by various social memes, advertising in all its forms (peer pressure is a form of advertising: “If you’re cool, you’ll buy Soulja Boy, you’ll eat Vicodin and Roxies, drink Colt 45” etc.) so that above all else, Amerika is addicted to validation by one’s peers.

Addiction leads to deficient serotonin production; your brain in essence acknowledges external stimuli as the trigger for serotonin release, whatever that stimulus may be. What a precarious tightrope we walk here knowing the empathetic potential of man; ergo the appeal of various gradations of virtual realities like television or video games—this sort of escape into a more user-friendly vicarious experience where you can live out your fantasies without the consequences (of those fantasies; you are not free from consequence in general). You can watch soap operas, leeching off the empathetic response to these disastrous social situations, feel the righteous indignation when so and so cheats on such and such with so and such, that awful bitch/bastard. You can play MMORPGs where you design your physical appearance in any number of ways, be a man, a woman, an elf, or any number of imaginary creatures; have super powers, do all those things you can’t do in reality and all without having to leave your house.

Like the heroin addict escapes to phantasy, we invest in—subject ourselves to—all manners of phantasmagoria; the voluntary divestment of our personal realities. We all yearn for a sort of stasis and this is crystallized in the success of vapid commercial art; the ersatz and kitsch everywhere outsells the mordant, the genius; forget Mike Patton, we want Korn and System of a Down. We have inverted the maxim: quantity over quality; we want a hundred bands that sound the same, not one that is wholly unique.

III) Recursion and Transposition

There is a golden section of the Amerikan vernacular, a scalable schematic contributing on an unconscious level to the malaise of so many (citi/deni)zens…and Amerikan life is the repletion of this sinister master formula. The economy-schematic is the lottery (scaled up: more scratch-offs, more rules, more participants but the win/loss/prize ratio remains unchanged)—and is it really any wonder that the highest income comprise the smallest proportion…by such a wide margin? Is the stock market not transposed dog races?

Let’s once again isolate the educational cincture. The teachers (or the quality control personnel in the factory) are not free to decide what they teach: their curriculum is dictated to them in the same way they dictate it to the students; their jobs depend on their students’ performance (which is where we depart from the factory analogy, for if the machines are malfunctioning resulting in fewer passable specimens, they are subjected to maintenance or repair rather than sacking the inspectors). But equally, the principal’s employment depends on the school’s collective performance (the inspector-inspector) and so on and so forth until we find that we are simply fighting numbers: the U.S. education system is in a state of exponential decadence, so we fall back on, once again, playing the game of statistics.

Here, however, statistics are tampered with: we identify in what precise skills one needs to excel and conclude that these skills are the parroting of specific data so we teach students not to think but to memorize and repeat (exactly like the production-machines) and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat.

The template is cut and used for that singular purpose; the arteries of creativity are clogged, blocked off, sealed. We are teaching you perspective, today. Draw a line lengthwise across your paper, parallel to the shorter two edges and about two thirds from the bottom. Draw two lines which mirror each other and intersect at the mid point of the first line you drew. Continue by drawing lines parallel to the first line to finish representing the train tracks. Don’t you fucking dare draw anything else, or you’re getting a bad mark! Don’t deviate or you will be subject to maintenance/eviction/termination.

The apartment building—what a deceptive invasion the corporation has here!—is housing conformed to the paradigm of the office, and it is in every way the same schematic as the office (you must interact satisfactorily or you are fired/evicted; you must produce your capital to the company or you are fired/evicted; you must conform to our rules or you are fired/evicted) only the act is cut and you simply shell out your profit to avoid eviction, to avoid the boot to the street. One observes in the business facsimiles of the tenant relationship. The business is a meta-stable entity where the absence of capital causes the company to be evicted in the same way that the tenant is evicted for failing to make rent.

I have a fourth section, but it is disheveled even more so than these three, so I apologize in advance for the anti-climax. Then again, it does fit the Kafka motif...

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PostSubject: Re: Amerika Amerika Icon_minitimeSat Dec 03, 2011 4:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It is fascinating that, within this frame of confinement you describe, it is still possible to feel as if one is free. There is a psychological understanding at the root of this system that is more masterful than anything that has come before. What is always immediately called to my mind here is Nietzsches phrase "superior means of dominion" formulated casting a glance at the 20th century and the increasing possibilities for manipulation of the masses. Disney Land seems to me to be the work of no one less than an Artist Tyrant. The Soviet filmmaker Eisenstein was terrified of Walt Disney, for good reason. What the Soviet propagandists attempted with brutally dishonest idealisms, their American counterparts managed to pull off using seemingly naive and endearing representations of harsh reality. All the fluffy figures in the early cartoons do nothing to hide to the careful observer that there is noting morally admirable going on in their behavior -- the hardness of reality is made 'funny'. I think that this must be one of the keys to understand the Amerika you have described above.

Whenever a European sets foot in the USA, he or she feels elated and free. It is so without many exceptions, without any that I know of at least. Perhaps a few poets were critical enough to hate it from the outset, but most people immediately fall for the sheer ambition and the lack of confining standards, to which they are used. There is a paradox here which I am not able to solve yet. America provides to the immigrant a very real sense of liberty, of opportunity, of respect for what it means to be human -- for both the principles of self-valuing and the will to power. The American respects the individual will to power as an ethical principle. In this, he is ahead of the European. But of course, not many have come to this respect on their own, nor is this respect entirely honest. It is too often coupled with nationalism and strange religious dogmas. Still, it works to spark the feeling of power. And we know that this feeling is not essentially different from power itself, and that power is nothing different than will to power, and that this in turn is only possible by a strong self-valuing.

Looking at the statements made by its founding fathers, America seems to have been set up with in mind the principles of self-valuing. Jefferson hailed respect for selfishness as a more credible form of morality, and the pursuit of happiness is nothing other than the work of valuing the world in terms of ones own self-value. There is to me an indisputable goodness at this nations metaphysical, ideational roots. The fact that its legislative structures have been corroded, that the logic has been lost, has not prevented strong ethical will to arise there more frequently and powerfully than it does in Europe, which ethical roots are far more organic, context-bound, pragmatic, on the whole far less philosophical.

I offer this text as a counterbalance, as a measuring-context, to the Kafka-esque description of 20th century America. Ideally we might be able to distill from the madness the metaphysical essence of the nations spirit, which, set loose from its natural legislative boundaries, has taken on such bizarre and self-mutilating forms.



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PostSubject: Re: Amerika Amerika Icon_minitimeMon Dec 05, 2011 7:15 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Whenever a European sets foot in the USA, he or she feels elated and free. It is so without many exceptions, without any that I know of at least. Perhaps a few poets were critical enough to hate it from the outset, but most people immediately fall for the sheer ambition and the lack of confining standards, to which they are used.
I was not aware the United States fooled any modern European. Still, "sheer ambition" and "lack of confining standards" do not seem to me innately good or beneficial foundations for a progressive culture. Additionally, the "lack of confining standards" I cannot agree with, unless you are comparing the situation to that of the Arabic nations, Asia and Africa. I get into this argument quite a bit with my fellow citizens: the danger of a social oppression whose presence is dissimulated by comparison to overtly oppressive social milieus is that it is dissimulated now, systematically disseminating a perpetuating apparatus. That said, what say you of France, Germany, Norway, etc? Marijuana is illegal because stoners don't mass in armies and declare war on the authorities (as opposed to alcohol, which is a foundation of the United States culture). What of Spain on this point or Amsterdam on prostitution?

Fixed Cross wrote:
Looking at the statements made by its founding fathers, America seems to have been set up with in mind the principles of self-valuing. Jefferson hailed respect for selfishness as a more credible form of morality, and the pursuit of happiness is nothing other than the work of valuing the world in terms of ones own self-value. There is to me an indisputable goodness at this nations metaphysical, ideational roots.
Certainly the practice of self-valuing is in no short supply here, but this is no virtue--especially when the self-valuing includes only the ego--the individual. The pursuit is just that--a pursuit, a wild goose chase. As for the roots, the "goodness" is extant only in the Kantian sense of intention, sense of duty--an entirely naive contention. The best intentions are no stranger to tragedy (for instance, the Army Corps of Engineers and the Mississippi). Disaster is not averted by good will alone.

You say: "The fact that its legislative structures have been corroded, that the logic has been lost, has not prevented strong ethical will to arise there more frequently and powerfully than it does in Europe, which ethical roots are far more organic, context-bound, pragmatic, on the whole far less philosophical." Which "ethical will" do you speak of? What is this frequency? Have you forgotten Norway? More importantly, is "philosophy" inherently beneficial? The manner in which the United States employs philosophy today is an absolute joke. Our Supreme Court has ruled that pizza is a vegetable.
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PostSubject: Re: Amerika Amerika Icon_minitimeTue Dec 06, 2011 2:23 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Aleatory wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:
Whenever a European sets foot in the USA, he or she feels elated and free. It is so without many exceptions, without any that I know of at least. Perhaps a few poets were critical enough to hate it from the outset, but most people immediately fall for the sheer ambition and the lack of confining standards, to which they are used.
I was not aware the United States fooled any modern European.
From my perspective at least, it is the modern American who is fooled into believing that, because of the severe degeneration and increasing stupidity, the entire value system is lost.
All my travels through the USA have been very interesting and fruitful, and the people I come to know there are very much worth knowing, I have learned much there. It seems to me that there is still a boldness to American thinking that can not be found in Europe.

Of course I am very selective in who I speak to long enough to draw such conclusions. The bulk of humanity, wherever you go, is stupid.

Quote :
Still, "sheer ambition" and "lack of confining standards" do not seem to me innately good or beneficial foundations for a progressive culture. Additionally, the "lack of confining standards" I cannot agree with, unless you are comparing the situation to that of the Arabic nations, Asia and Africa.
It is the question what is being confined, of course. But I admit that I may be too positive here, I am aware that there is a great deal of suppression and control in the US, that this is an understatement even. What I speak of is the minds of the people I've come to know. There seems to be more ''ethical space'' at lthe very least than in the Netherlands, anno 2011.

Quote :
I get into this argument quite a bit with my fellow citizens: the danger of a social oppression whose presence is dissimulated by comparison to overtly oppressive social milieus is that it is dissimulated now, systematically disseminating a perpetuating apparatus.
Could you elaborate on this? What is the danger, what is the perpetuating apparatus? What is systematically being dissemminated?

Quote :
That said, what say you of France, Germany, Norway, etc? Marijuana is illegal because stoners don't mass in armies and declare war on the authorities (as opposed to alcohol, which is a foundation of the United States culture). What of Spain on this point or Amsterdam on prostitution?
Although I know that marijuana possession is used as an excuse for the government to ruin people, I have not noticed any effective restrictions on marijuana in the US. it seems to be readily available in good quality, and much more people smoke it there than in Amsterdam, relatively speaking as well. In California the quality is arguably better and, in case of a medicinal permit which is, so I found out, very hard not to get, more legal than in Amsterdam where it is still illegally produced and sold to the coffeeshops. But that aside, I would not say of such things that they are a real standard for freedom or lack of boundaries.

I like France very much as a country. Germany... I'm not so sure what to think yet. In Norway I've never been, its hardly populated and nothing really interesting has come from there since the Vikings, as far as I know. They have very little challenges, politically speaking, compared to the US. That should be a consideration -- how does the worlds leading political power maintain order interiorily? Clearly, they are not doing a very good job now, but I doubt that the Norwegian government would manage better if they had a simiar weigth to carry and wealth to manage. It is said that power corrupts -but the US is still a far better place to live than any African or most any Asian country, and I would prefer it to most European nations as well. Italy and France are probably the only exceptions.

But this is all distracting from what you aim to expose -- the only thing I can do is give counterweight, knowing that the degeneracy of control and standards in the US is alarmingly real.
I am putting it in context of the rest of what we call the civilized world.

Quote :
Fixed Cross wrote:
Looking at the statements made by its founding fathers, America seems to have been set up with in mind the principles of self-valuing. Jefferson hailed respect for selfishness as a more credible form of morality, and the pursuit of happiness is nothing other than the work of valuing the world in terms of ones own self-value. There is to me an indisputable goodness at this nations metaphysical, ideational roots.
Certainly the practice of self-valuing is in no short supply here, but this is no virtue--especially when the self-valuing includes only the ego--the individual. The pursuit is just that--a pursuit, a wild goose chase. As for the roots, the "goodness" is extant only in the Kantian sense of intention, sense of duty--an entirely naive contention. The best intentions are no stranger to tragedy (for instance, the Army Corps of Engineers and the Mississippi). Disaster is not averted by good will alone.
I disagree that this egoistical selfvaluing is not a virtue. It starts with egoism. No creature is based on anything else. I would say that only when advances are made within the egoic sphere, can the self be interpreted more widely. But this is debatable, I realize. I am no authority on the virtues and merits of ego-forsaking.

Quote :
You say: "The fact that its legislative structures have been corroded, that the logic has been lost, has not prevented strong ethical will to arise there more frequently and powerfully than it does in Europe, which ethical roots are far more organic, context-bound, pragmatic, on the whole far less philosophical." Which "ethical will" do you speak of? What is this frequency? Have you forgotten Norway? More importantly, is "philosophy" inherently beneficial? The manner in which the United States employs philosophy today is an absolute joke. Our Supreme Court has ruled that pizza is a vegetable.
What should I remember about Norway? It is clean and has few people. It used to be extremely poor, recently it has found some oil and is now rather prosperous, but enormously boring and culturally insignificant.
The US is still, despite, or perhaps also because of, evertyhing, the most politically dynamic and culturally productive country in the world, even if the standards are seemingly very low, you dont even want to know what standards we have in Holland. The social counter-engineering, the art of creating aggression, stupidity and self-pity are mastered here, and there is nothing to compensate for it. Dutch society is effectively destroyed. Whenever I fly back from the US to Holland I feel like I am setting foot in a filthy cage.

Yet when I came back from Damascus to Amsterdam, I felt like I was entering a sanctuary of purity. I think that well thinking Americans, dismayed by what goes on around them, tend to overestimate the virtues of the rest of the world.



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PostSubject: Re: Amerika Amerika Icon_minitimeTue Dec 06, 2011 8:50 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
From my perspective at least, it is the modern American who is fooled into believing that, because of the severe degeneration and increasing stupidity, the entire value system is lost.

All my travels through the USA have been very interesting and fruitful, and the people I come to know there are very much worth knowing, I have learned much there. It seems to me that there is still a boldness to American thinking that can not be found in Europe.

Of course I am very selective in who I speak to long enough to draw such conclusions. The bulk of humanity, wherever you go, is stupid.

I have no doubt the value system is not yet lost. Rather, it has been compromised, contaminated and/or corrupted; it is abused. Replacing the filibuster with intransigence in political office; dividing the populous with party warfare and bewitching them with egregious propaganda[1]; the vitiation of the Free Press by capital[4]; the apotheosis of convenience[5]; the implementation of peer pressure to market by simulated demographics[8]; etc.

Boldness, indeed—but such a ‘virtue’ has accompanied every military dictator in recorded history. Hitler was bold[9].

Fixed Cross wrote:
Could you elaborate on this? What is the danger, what is the perpetuating apparatus? What is systematically being dissemminated?

I elaborated extensively in “II: Cinctures and Methods of Control” and “III: Recursion and Transposition”. If you want vague, umbrella-term answers, the danger is trapping the progress of man in a möbius strip that (due to youth becoming little more than glorified parrots) is inexpugnable from within, the perpetuating apparatus is the transposition of mass production onto all strata and the perpetuating apparatus is what is being disseminated by advertising/marketing—however, I would rather you just read the two sections mentioned for a more substantial explanation.

Fixed Cross wrote:
Although I know that marijuana possession is used as an excuse for the government to ruin people, I have not noticed any effective restrictions on marijuana in the US. it seems to be readily available in good quality, and much more people smoke it there than in Amsterdam, relatively speaking as well. In California the quality is arguably better and, in case of a medicinal permit which is, so I found out, very hard not to get, more legal than in Amsterdam where it is still illegally produced and sold to the coffeeshops. But that aside, I would not say of such things that they are a real standard for freedom or lack of boundaries.

May I ask where in the U.S. you have been? New York, for instance, averages 50,000 arrests for misdemeanor possession of marijuana annually[10]. The FBI’s Uniform Crime Report for 2010 (obviously, the 2011 edition has not yet been released) lists over 750,000 arrests for possession of marijuana, but I would rather not get hung up on this point.

Fixed Cross wrote:
In Norway I've never been, its hardly populated and nothing really interesting has come from there since the Vikings, as far as I know. They have very little challenges, politically speaking, compared to the US. That should be a consideration -- how does the worlds leading political power maintain order interiorily? Clearly, they are not doing a very good job now, but I doubt that the Norwegian government would manage better if they had a simiar weigth to carry and wealth to manage. It is said that power corrupts -but the US is still a far better place to live than any African or most any Asian country, and I would prefer it to most European nations as well.


I’ll leave off discussion of Norway until the second to last paragraph (where it is brought up again).

Are we actually to assume that the United States is not responsible for its issues; that its “weight” and “wealth” are inherently good and that the issues of managing the control over such a vast populous—its failures in this sense—are therefore forgivable? Well, from the standpoint of rape, in 2009 the U.S. was ranked 5th in per capita rapes—Zimbabwe was 7th—and 1st by 75,907 rapes[11]. Is this a necessary evil? What of being ranked 46th globally in terms of infant mortality rate[12]? 98th in unemployment rate? How about that obesity rate[6]? Indeed, the U.S. carries a great weight.

Fixed Cross wrote:
What should I remember about Norway? It is clean and has few people. It used to be extremely poor, recently it has found some oil and is now rather prosperous, but enormously boring and culturally insignificant.

As a point of comparison, Norway has an unemployment rate of 3.4 to the U.S.’s 8.6, an infant mortality rate of 3.58 to the U.S.’s 6.26, a rape rate of 19.8 to the U.S.’s 28.6 and no death penalty. How about education? Norway was 9th in reading to the U.S.’s 14th, 15th in math to the U.S.’s 25th and the U.S. pulls an uncharacteristic upset ranking 17th in science to Norway’s 19th. What about these Netherlands? 7th in reading, 6th in math and 8th in science[13]. But perhaps these countries are boring and culturally insignificant. Zimbabwe is far from boring and extremely culturally significant. Let’s all move there.

Fixed Cross wrote:
The US is still, despite, or perhaps also because of, evertyhing, the most politically dynamic and culturally productive country in the world, even if the standards are seemingly very low, you dont even want to know what standards we have in Holland. The social counter-engineering, the art of creating aggression, stupidity and self-pity are mastered here, and there is nothing to compensate for it. Dutch society is effectively destroyed. Whenever I fly back from the US to Holland I feel like I am setting foot in a filthy cage.

If you feel the U.S. is anything but proficient in what you call social counter-engineering, and that we compensate for it (especially in aggression, stupidity and self-pity), you are disastrously mistaken. Visiting is not enough. Live here for a few years. This reply is already far too long, so I’ll end it here.

End Notes:

[1] The current state of political affairs is abysmal at best. The President serves as little more than a figurehead, a scapegoat upon whose shoulders we can lay all the blame. We failed to alleviate the financial crisis that’s been snowballing since Clinton left office? Blame Bush[2] and Obama[3]. The democrats, vacuous mouths and furled brows, menacingly thrust their index fingers at the republicans who in turn mirror this gesture, the Tea Party is in constant existential quandary, and all the while the independents are reduced to cynical irony. This is all perpetuated by drowning the Amerikan people in horribly biased propaganda, which would be fine if the audiences of Fox News and its democratic equivalent exhibited a propensity for checking sources.

[2] Bush may be blamed for the war in Iraq but it is the Amerikan people who made the ultimate decision to go to war.

[3] While Obama is, in my opinion, not at fault for the national debt, he was not ready for presidency.

[4] The press is, first and foremost, a business requiring a good deal of capital to operate. To satisfy this need, the story must not only be provocative enough to sell, but consistently produced in such a way as to ensure a steady profit. Thus the paparazzi is ex-cinctured as the mainstream jackals and vultures swarm, quenching the bloodlust of the Amerikan people for scandal; nothing satisfies the public quite like the felling of a titan through scandal.

[5] Fast food is by no means peculiar to Amerika, but no where else is it such a fundamental staple of the national diet. McDonald’s, Burger King, Wendy’s, Hardees, Checkers, White Castle, Dairy Queen/Stuckey’s, Taco Bell, Arby’s, KFC, Popeye’s, Chick-fil-a…the list goes on. More than half of the U.S. population consumes fast food on a weekly basis—around 27% eat it daily. The health concerns are obviously appalling[6], but the semiotics… terrifying. To make some attempt at brevity, I will refer you further to an interview with David Foster Wallace[7] which outlines transpositions of this schematic elsewhere…the psycho-social implications.

[6] Once again topping the charts, the U.S. weighs in with 74.6% of the population being overweight or obese, an importunate statistic when observing that just 19.7% were overweight or obese in 1997.

[7] The interview can be accessed here: http://samizdat.cc/shelf/documents/2005 ... erview.pdf

[8] The most despicable development in marketing to date is this trendy psychological warfare capitalizing on the hegemony of peer pressure: ‘We have stereotyped your demographic which we will now synthesize into an injection mould mimesis, so convincingly enjoying our product that you will, more often than not, purchase it not because you actually want it (indeed, prior to this ad, you were ignorant of such desire) but because we dictate how you should be you.’

[9] Hitler was, as it so happens, greatly influenced by America…and Britain’s colonization policies.

[10] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/0 ... 78023.html

[11] 1st being the most rapes (as opposed to the next note’s numbering): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

[12] 1st being the least deaths per 1,000 live births: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... ality_rate

[13] http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... ce-reading
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PostSubject: Re: Amerika Amerika Icon_minitimeTue Dec 06, 2011 2:45 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I respect your study, but I ask to what you would have it point. The aim of 20th century America has been to keep the Eurasian continent from taking control of the world. All was allowed to that end. After Vietnam, people have become more critical. If people become more critical without having a global political overview, perspectives are skewed.

In olden times, people would simply die for their country. After Vietnam something very significant has happened - the notion of the state in general as superego became untenable to a certain refined taste. The nation-state-world was in grave danger, and the people kept getting better informed, journalism and resulting, pop music threatened to kill the states authority as-such entirely. A grand sweep was needed the Grand Chessboard could not be left unattended, despite the peoples growing selfishness, their growing ability to think of themselves as laws unto themselves.

Either America-Israel relinquishes its international military domination, or - not. If so, it is hard to estimate how China, Russia, Germany, etc would rise to the occasion - that would be the question to ask. If not, the people will have to find a way to stand behind the military industrial complex, understand it as a fundamentally productive and protective institution, a condition of civilization, which is actually how it functions. All means by which the people have gotten better informed are resultant of the technology war between corporate nations. That is not to say that there is not a great deal kept away from the people - the individual can never again believe the state, and the states moral and medical predications, but he must work within it, because the state increasingly represents the world at large, its utterly inhuman resistance of power, "the Real" in its total anonymous force contained. The world is not ready to become a peaceful haven without coercion and manipulation. It may never become that.

The evil of this is implicit not in the mechanism of power itself, but arises in the interpretation by a different-valuing group, is created by the separating of morality from reality. Economical and political reality, corporate industry, has been renounced since its effects became popularly visible. But there is no other option. There are only many ways to make it worse, and quite likely a few ways to improve it, make it better suited to our "human" standards. But we forget too easily that these are western standards - that rights before the state is a western concept. The west is still the only post industrial master-morality, but it has been largely lost after 9-11, when America, the great warrior nation, became a self-pitying freak. Thereby are the excesses allowed, not by "the state". Such an institution is always a direct reflection of the peoples will. The will of Americans has been weakened. Thereby the parasitic nature of corporatism has gained ground. But what was the cause of the weakening of the will? It was the peoples ability to see behind the facade of politics coupled to their inability to affirm what they saw, and the paralysis that followed disabled them from even trying to affirm it --- so far.

If philosophy is not aimed at clarifying the will to power as an ethics, it is going nowhere. Corporate; entity-like. Industrial: productive. Complex: system.
The good people of the world are very far removed from a logic powerful enough to 'contain' the future, which is to disclose it. To this end we have devised value-ontology, and to the end of disseminating value ontology this forum is created. A small step, but we aim to match corporations in their power, to function as a metaphysical "virus", to "infect" people with this new, philosophically pure master-morality. Our quest is a discovery of the diversity of human minds, the endless ways in which the logic following from making all logic subject to what it serves to organize, creates stability in human thought as it reveals it as self-valuing and valuing the world in the thereby disclosed term-system.

America could no longer be valued in terms of Americans. What was the American? A person who needed the state to tell him to value himself. When he had learned this, he ceased to believe the state, and rejected it. Consequently he was unable to value himself, as he had built himself in the terms predicated by the state.
The solution to this lack of power is to affirm the state as a corporation, but at the same time not believing one word its mouthpieces utter. The solution is to take control of politics by affirming that this is a spectacle, a game of lies and deceit - an artform. "Exposing the facts" is not politics - creating new psychological conditions is required.




Note: American influence on Hitler was mostly the strategies devised by Edward Bernays, Freuds cousin -- like his uncle and Hitler, an Austrian. The inventor of Hollywood-stage setting is of course Wagner. American soft-power is for a great part a Germanic product, which in turn is the inheritor of Hellenic Idealism. This great western ambition to create the world now has affected the entire world, but its main engines are still in America, even if Germany gradually becoming willing to live up to its self-imposed responsibilities again. The power to manipulate, as terrible as it is, is still nowhere near as horrifying as a world in the absence of this power.




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" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Amerika Amerika Icon_minitimeWed Dec 14, 2011 7:12 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I feel for the most part, we have been writing past each other. This was meant as a semiotic observation on the present U.S. socio-political structure. However, you did write something that worries me:

'A small step, but we aim to match corporations in their power, to function as a metaphysical "virus", to "infect" people with this new, philosophically pure master-morality.'

I am afraid you have merely embarked on the propagation of yet another arbor-hierarchy. You speak of expropriation of corporate domination by force; to "match the corporations in their power". Perhaps I should ask you to what you would have your concept point: I look for a balance--equilibrium rather than metastability--and to this end, one must dissipate the extant force rather than attempt to meet it with an equal force. Which brings me to your question of "to what would [I] have it point?" I would have my concepts point to the structural integrity of microcosmic societies cooperating as multiplicities; rhizomatic proliferation as opposed to arbor-hierarchical/mass production dissemination.

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PostSubject: Re: Amerika Amerika Icon_minitimeFri Dec 16, 2011 11:09 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Aleatory wrote:
I feel for the most part, we have been writing past each other. This was meant as a semiotic observation on the present U.S. socio-political structure.
I can understand that my comments seemed somewhat irrelevant to your proposed context. But it was the context that I meant to challenge.

Quote :
However, you did write something that worries me:

'A small step, but we aim to match corporations in their power, to function as a metaphysical "virus", to "infect" people with this new, philosophically pure master-morality.'

I am afraid you have merely embarked on the propagation of yet another arbor-hierarchy. You speak of expropriation of corporate domination by force;
I have done no such thing, that would indeed be futile. Corporations don't generally exert direct force, they act insidiously, infiltrate our cognitive circuitry and re-set our needs and create new desires in us. The violence acted out physically in wars and dictatorships is overshadowed by the structural violence, the domination of mans thinking. This is the power I seek to match and overcome. Philosophy, if it is to be politically effecting, must be more subtle, but still play the game of manipulation. The thinker must guide his fellow men toward the good, not ask them to abandon the bad. In life as in philosophy, one can not negate a negative by designating it as bad. We must set a positive for it to eliminate itself against. This is the context I am speaking of.

Quote :
I look for a balance--equilibrium rather than metastability--and to this end, one must dissipate the extant force rather than attempt to meet it with an equal force.
Power is not the same as force. I do not seek to meet force with force and start a war. Power is mostly intellectual. Every war is an intellectual game, both in terms of strategy as of ideology, motive.

Quote :
Which brings me to your question of "to what would [I] have it point?" I would have my concepts point to the structural integrity of microcosmic societies cooperating as multiplicities; rhizomatic proliferation as opposed to arbor-hierarchical/mass production dissemination.
We agree on a general political aim. I have long pondered how to create a movement from the root up containing in its intention already the self-organizing quality of spontaneously emerging self-cultivating socio-economical units. In other words, I have been looking for the DNA of a rhizomatically self-conditioning society. Now that I think that I have found this, at least a rudimentary code, I test all that comes along to this logic.

What I find is that corporations employ a kind of living-dead version of value ontology. They act on the reversed principle: to have people condition themselves in terms of services provided by other entities. to break the power of such entities, people must be taught, somehow - this is the hard part - to value services in terms of themselves. If the thought takes hold firmly enough as an intention, the "market" - the top-down stream of products to create demand - will be broken by a more natural, need-based system of self-sustaining by the means provided by the (physical, societal, moral) landscape.



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PostSubject: Re: Amerika Amerika Icon_minitimeFri Dec 16, 2011 12:02 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
* Looks at bottle of Vicodin in left hand * My brand comes in pink pills, cute.

Hey! Take it easy on us drug addicts now. *Puts out cigarette.*

The best part of a cigarette is actually the moment you put it out, because that means you get to light another one.






America is the most vivid form of the disease we call modern humanity. It is the technological and economic realization of nihilism, something Nietzsche would have never even imagined was possible. The "casino" you describe is the precursor to what we have now, a giant mall, which is basically what the good old USA has become. Paris used to have (maybe still does) these things called Arcades, the equivalent of an American mall. Walter Benjamin planned to write a magnum opus about the concept, and in fact he tried to. The surviving fragments of it are called the Arcades Project, you might be interested in reading it, original poster.

Nihilism technologically realized, it is amazing. Instead of actually satisfying your desires, this mammoth Arcade simply inspires you with desire after desire, turning you into a ceaseless wellspring of new and more perverse desires, to the point that you can't even reflect on your own dissatisfaction, emptiness, and longing. Makes me quite ill to think about it, actually. That's why I spent more than five years without ever leaving my house.

Anyway, this disease must be corrected. All we need is a proper course of treatment: re-awaken the populace to its dissatisfaction.
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PostSubject: Re: Amerika Amerika Icon_minitimeFri Dec 16, 2011 12:22 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Also, the opiate and heroin user does not escape to fantasy. He takes opium to give him the false courage to embrace his own misery. Thus it often leads to a peculiar pathology, where the principle of the real is inverted and becomes a source of pleasure. The heroin user likes the dirt, likes being in the filth and the dirt, wants to be the filth and the dirt, wants to be the real.

His own pain and degenerating body, his own wretchedness, becomes a source of pleasure. Delectatio morosa is the sweetest bit of honey one can squeeze from the poppy bud. Opium is thanatos become pregnant, creative.
It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
~ Владимир Ильич Ульянов Ленин

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